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Zoom vs. megapixels

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Ditch

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Hi all. I'm new to the forum and new to photography. I'm looking to get a digital camera real soon, and I think I've narrowed it down some.

So far I like the Oly C-3020 and the C-700. The C-3020 has gotten good reviews in PCWorld (if that counts for anything) has 3 MP and 3x optical zoom. The C-700 has 2 MP and 10x optical zoom.

I like the camera bodies of these b/c of the beefy grip and the (relatively) small size. I will be using it for vacation pics and autocross pics (where the zoom might come in handy). I don't want to pay over $500, and would be happier if I could keep it close to $400.

I don't plan on printing anything, but the honeywah might. Even then I don't expect to have to print something larger than 5x7".

Will I need the 3 MP for everyday stuff? Will I need the 10x zoom? Any other cameras out there I should consider?

Thanks in advance,
Ditch
 
Ditch said:
Hi all. I'm new to the forum and new to photography. I'm looking
to get a digital camera real soon, and I think I've narrowed it
down some.

So far I like the Oly C-3020 and the C-700. The C-3020 has gotten
good reviews in PCWorld (if that counts for anything) has 3 MP and
3x optical zoom. The C-700 has 2 MP and 10x optical zoom.

I like the camera bodies of these b/c of the beefy grip and the
(relatively) small size. I will be using it for vacation pics and
autocross pics (where the zoom might come in handy). I don't want
to pay over $500, and would be happier if I could keep it close to
$400.

I don't plan on printing anything, but the honeywah might. Even
then I don't expect to have to print something larger than 5x7".

Will I need the 3 MP for everyday stuff? Will I need the 10x zoom?
Any other cameras out there I should consider?

Thanks in advance,
Ditch
Click to expand...
--Most cameras end up in the closet. Since your new to photography, start inexpesively and see if you really like it.

JoeR
 
JoeR said:
Ditch said:
Hi all. I'm new to the forum and new to photography. I'm looking
to get a digital camera real soon, and I think I've narrowed it
down some.

So far I like the Oly C-3020 and the C-700. The C-3020 has gotten
good reviews in PCWorld (if that counts for anything) has 3 MP and
3x optical zoom. The C-700 has 2 MP and 10x optical zoom.

I like the camera bodies of these b/c of the beefy grip and the
(relatively) small size. I will be using it for vacation pics and
autocross pics (where the zoom might come in handy). I don't want
to pay over $500, and would be happier if I could keep it close to
$400.

I don't plan on printing anything, but the honeywah might. Even
then I don't expect to have to print something larger than 5x7".

Will I need the 3 MP for everyday stuff? Will I need the 10x zoom?
Any other cameras out there I should consider?

Thanks in advance,
Ditch
Click to expand...
--Most cameras end up in the closet. Since your new to photography,
start inexpesively and see if you really like it.

JoeR
Click to expand...
5x7 pictures at 300dpi is 3 mp if that helps. Check to see if the lower zoom camera can accept telephoto / teleconverter lenses, if it can then its not an issue, if it can't then you have to think if thats a priority. When I bought my camera, i wanted a camera that used CF, used rechargable AA batteries, had all glass lenses and accepted add-on lenses.

hope that helps
bob
--
Canon A40, Canon EOS
 
Even 1.3mp is adequate for 5x7 injet prints. so you should be okay. 2mp is okay for an 8x10 if you don't have to crop. If you fall below 150 linear pixels per inch you'll start seeing jaggies.

Be aware that the camera is just the beginning. You'll easily spend half as much again on needed accessories. The included memory card will be woefully inadequate. With smart media you'll be limited to 128mb and I suggest you get at least two cards. That's one reason I'd steer you toward a camera that can use compact flash memory if possible. Also get at least two sets of NiMH batteries and a fast charger. The Rayovac 1 hour charger is widely available but there are others. An AC adapter or media reader will save batteries when you're uploading pictures to computer.

Read the reviews here and at other digicam sites like dpreview.com Computer magazines don't review cameras from a photographer's point of view. You may not think that's important now but it will be as you learn more.
 
if all u need is 5 x 7s and fullscreen pc viewing plus web posting.. 2 mega pixels is plenty and 10 zoom is very usefull.. he he

go for the zoom.. he he

thow isnt there a new 3 mega pixel fairly cheap oly with plenty of none stabilized zoom.. i forget the number.. ???

trog100
  1. #
padeye said:
Even 1.3mp is adequate for 5x7 injet prints. so you should be
okay. 2mp is okay for an 8x10 if you don't have to crop. If you
fall below 150 linear pixels per inch you'll start seeing jaggies.

Be aware that the camera is just the beginning. You'll easily
spend half as much again on needed accessories. The included
memory card will be woefully inadequate. With smart media you'll
be limited to 128mb and I suggest you get at least two cards.
That's one reason I'd steer you toward a camera that can use
compact flash memory if possible. Also get at least two sets of
NiMH batteries and a fast charger. The Rayovac 1 hour charger is
widely available but there are others. An AC adapter or media
reader will save batteries when you're uploading pictures to
computer.

Read the reviews here and at other digicam sites like dpreview.com
Computer magazines don't review cameras from a photographer's point
of view. You may not think that's important now but it will be as
you learn more.
Click to expand...
 
The majority of pictures are not taken at big zooms. But with the 3 megapixel camera, every single picture you take will have higher resolution.

The standard 3 megapixel 3x zoom is a good starter digicam.
 
Hi Trog

I get a chance to disagree with you! Digital zoom is really a waste of money. Essentially digital zoom is software interpolation, the interpolation being done by the camera instead of the computer - There is no increase in actual data. The above and below information is for the innitial poster.

Interpolation is a nice gimmick for expanding the size of the final printed image to avoid "jaggies." But you're better off doing it in the computer then letting the camera do it. Optical zoom is true zoom, without interpolation and that is what a buyer should be looking for.

In other words, all things being equal go for the optical zoom.

Dave
trog100 said:
go for the zoom.. he he

thow isnt there a new 3 mega pixel fairly cheap oly with plenty of
none stabilized zoom.. i forget the number.. ???

trog100
  1. #
padeye said:
Even 1.3mp is adequate for 5x7 injet prints. so you should be
okay. 2mp is okay for an 8x10 if you don't have to crop. If you
fall below 150 linear pixels per inch you'll start seeing jaggies.

Be aware that the camera is just the beginning. You'll easily
spend half as much again on needed accessories. The included
memory card will be woefully inadequate. With smart media you'll
be limited to 128mb and I suggest you get at least two cards.
That's one reason I'd steer you toward a camera that can use
compact flash memory if possible. Also get at least two sets of
NiMH batteries and a fast charger. The Rayovac 1 hour charger is
widely available but there are others. An AC adapter or media
reader will save batteries when you're uploading pictures to
computer.

Read the reviews here and at other digicam sites like dpreview.com
Computer magazines don't review cameras from a photographer's point
of view. You may not think that's important now but it will be as
you learn more.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
I opted for the 3.3 mp, 3X optical zoom thinking I might print more large photos than I have (I've printed exactly ZERO images) and many have been the day where I longed for "just a little more reach." I've found that for on-screen viewing, 2 MP is VERY satisfying. For those shots I KNOW I will crop or want to zoom in on detail, I step it up to 3.3 (or 4.8 interpolated). Otherwise, I get more than adequate bang out of my 2 MP shots.

If you're more interested in the point & shoot brand of photography, you might give a very serious look at the Fuji 2800. 6X optical zoom, 2 MP; nice grip. Doesn't have a lot of bells and whistles, but it doesn't have notorious Olympus software menu system either. You would stand much greater odds of not "putting it on the shelf in the closet" with this unit. And the base price is under $400. Note that this camera is discontinued so it may be well below this price. Also, there are 191 owner opinions posted at this site. Read through those before deciding.

By a 128 mb card and realize a 2 MP capacity of over 200 photos. I bought a Fuji 2600 for my stepson, so we could have photos of grandkids. It's a 3x zoom version of the same camera. We're all very happy with that choice. Oh, you'll also have to buy a charger and NiMH batteries.

Only downside I see is the single ISO rating of 100. May not perform well indoors. At night.

Read reviews, make your selection, and go forth with a snap-happy smile.

Damien*
Epson 3100Z
 
You will definitely need the zoom for auto-cross shooting. I have the c700 and couldn't live without it. By the way, you can use the c700 as a point-and-shoot or manual camera. You should probably ask this question on the Olympus forum. Most people there who have the 10x zoom cameras couldn't do without the zoom.
--
Davia
C-700
pbase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/dmlove
 
digital zoom did i say digital.. when i said zoom is usefull go for the zoom.. i did mean the ten times optical oly.. he he

mind u as the mega pixel count goes up.. the usefullness of in camera cropping.. ie digital zoom does go up with it.. still as we are now the movement blur factor does kinda make it better to do it afterwards.. still with an imaginary 5 mega pixel camera with say only two times optical zoom or even none at all.... a little in camera digital zoom might be useable..

it might go this way with cheap (future) cameras.. i do think the automatic dismissal of digital zoom harks back to the days of not enough pixels in the first place..

why do it in camera.. well its quicker and easier.. not all folks play with PS.. i can even think of one current camera it could be usefull on.. the 4 mega pixel kodak dx4900 with only two time optical.. it has enough mega pixels to spare whilst having no really usefull optical zoom..

mind u i am bound to come up with something u can really disagree with in the future.. he he he.. whoops..

trog100
  1. #
David Barkin said:
I get a chance to disagree with you! Digital zoom is really a waste
of money. Essentially digital zoom is software interpolation, the
interpolation being done by the camera instead of the computer -
There is no increase in actual data. The above and below
information is for the innitial poster.

Interpolation is a nice gimmick for expanding the size of the final
printed image to avoid "jaggies." But you're better off doing it in
the computer then letting the camera do it. Optical zoom is true
zoom, without interpolation and that is what a buyer should be
looking for.

In other words, all things being equal go for the optical zoom.

Dave
trog100 said:
go for the zoom.. he he

thow isnt there a new 3 mega pixel fairly cheap oly with plenty of
none stabilized zoom.. i forget the number.. ???

trog100
  1. #
padeye said:
Even 1.3mp is adequate for 5x7 injet prints. so you should be
okay. 2mp is okay for an 8x10 if you don't have to crop. If you
fall below 150 linear pixels per inch you'll start seeing jaggies.

Be aware that the camera is just the beginning. You'll easily
spend half as much again on needed accessories. The included
memory card will be woefully inadequate. With smart media you'll
be limited to 128mb and I suggest you get at least two cards.
That's one reason I'd steer you toward a camera that can use
compact flash memory if possible. Also get at least two sets of
NiMH batteries and a fast charger. The Rayovac 1 hour charger is
widely available but there are others. An AC adapter or media
reader will save batteries when you're uploading pictures to
computer.

Read the reviews here and at other digicam sites like dpreview.com
Computer magazines don't review cameras from a photographer's point
of view. You may not think that's important now but it will be as
you learn more.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Hi Trog

I figured you were being sloppy in reading the original post. The end of that post does indeed just say 10x zoom but the beginning said:
trog100 said:
So far I like the Oly C-3020 and the C-700. The C-3020 has gotten good reviews in

PCWorld (if that counts for anything) has 3 MP and 3x optical zoom. The C-700 has 2 > MP and 10x optical zoom.
Click to expand...
I just couldn't resist the opportuntiy...

Dave
trog100 said:
mind u as the mega pixel count goes up.. the usefullness of in
camera cropping.. ie digital zoom does go up with it.. still as we
are now the movement blur factor does kinda make it better to do it
afterwards.. still with an imaginary 5 mega pixel camera with say
only two times optical zoom or even none at all.... a little in
camera digital zoom might be useable..

it might go this way with cheap (future) cameras.. i do think the
automatic dismissal of digital zoom harks back to the days of not
enough pixels in the first place..

why do it in camera.. well its quicker and easier.. not all folks
play with PS.. i can even think of one current camera it could be
usefull on.. the 4 mega pixel kodak dx4900 with only two time
optical.. it has enough mega pixels to spare whilst having no
really usefull optical zoom..

mind u i am bound to come up with something u can really disagree
with in the future.. he he he.. whoops..

trog100
  1. #
David Barkin said:
I get a chance to disagree with you! Digital zoom is really a waste
of money. Essentially digital zoom is software interpolation, the
interpolation being done by the camera instead of the computer -
There is no increase in actual data. The above and below
information is for the innitial poster.

Interpolation is a nice gimmick for expanding the size of the final
printed image to avoid "jaggies." But you're better off doing it in
the computer then letting the camera do it. Optical zoom is true
zoom, without interpolation and that is what a buyer should be
looking for.

In other words, all things being equal go for the optical zoom.

Dave
trog100 said:
go for the zoom.. he he

thow isnt there a new 3 mega pixel fairly cheap oly with plenty of
none stabilized zoom.. i forget the number.. ???

trog100
  1. #
padeye said:
Even 1.3mp is adequate for 5x7 injet prints. so you should be
okay. 2mp is okay for an 8x10 if you don't have to crop. If you
fall below 150 linear pixels per inch you'll start seeing jaggies.

Be aware that the camera is just the beginning. You'll easily
spend half as much again on needed accessories. The included
memory card will be woefully inadequate. With smart media you'll
be limited to 128mb and I suggest you get at least two cards.
That's one reason I'd steer you toward a camera that can use
compact flash memory if possible. Also get at least two sets of
NiMH batteries and a fast charger. The Rayovac 1 hour charger is
widely available but there are others. An AC adapter or media
reader will save batteries when you're uploading pictures to
computer.

Read the reviews here and at other digicam sites like dpreview.com
Computer magazines don't review cameras from a photographer's point
of view. You may not think that's important now but it will be as
you learn more.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Thanks all.

I was looking at the C-720 and it seems nice, 3MP and 8x zoom, same case as the 700. A bit expensive, but I found it at ibuydigital.com for $449. My only reservation is that this ibuydigital place might be one of those fly-by-night operations. Customer feedback on pricegrabber.com seems good, though. Could I rest assured at buying from one of these places? Or should I stick with the big names and get a lesser camera?

With this camera I'd get 3MP and the big optical zoom. I don't want a point and shoot 'cause the honeywah wants to take photography lessons in the future, and the three that I've considered have all the manual goodies.

Thianks again,
Ditch
 
Some comments and observations from my wife's experience in looking for a camera near Christmas last year:

1) Fuji 2800 was nearly ideal - except that the EVF/LCD was too dim in indoor light. She gave up when she got a picture of a blank space because the person got up while she was aiming and she didn't notice.

2) C-700 had fairly severe chromatic abberations she was shooting outdoors around trees with all their leaves gone.

3) Zoom will beat megapixels and cropping almost anytime. A 6X zoom with 2MP will beat a 3X zoom with less than 8MP because of pixels/inch (calculate pixels along one edge - if you double the MP you get 1.4X the pixels along one edge). If you have the zoom you will find you will make good use of it.

4) My wife ended up with a Canon S-30; good LCD viewfinder, more megapixels, better flash than Nikon 775.

5) Flash on digital cameras still sucks - 7-10 feet range is typical.

Me - I have a Canon Pro 90 IS - 10X optical zoom rules!
 
Ditch said:
With this camera I'd get 3MP and the big optical zoom. I don't
want a point and shoot 'cause the honeywah wants to take
photography lessons in the future, and the three that I've
considered have all the manual goodies.

Thianks again,
Ditch
Click to expand...
Ditch, go for the zoom, go for the manual goodies and go for the megapixels, what i'm saying is go for the C720, i have the C3020 and it takes great pics, but i wish i had gone for the bigger zoom, remember to read the companies return policy! I originally bought the nikon 885 and didn't like the camera, so i returned it for the C3020 with no restocking fee(BS) so i was only out the shipping cost, check out the companys reviews that's what i did. If you don't go for the big zoom you will wish you did! the C730 should be out soon and it has 3mp and 10x zoom, probably gonna be expensive for awhile though.
 
PaulyOly said:
Ditch said:
With this camera I'd get 3MP and the big optical zoom. I don't
want a point and shoot 'cause the honeywah wants to take
photography lessons in the future, and the three that I've
considered have all the manual goodies.

Thianks again,
Ditch
Click to expand...
Ditch, go for the zoom, go for the manual goodies and go for the
megapixels, what i'm saying is go for the C720, i have the C3020
and it takes great pics, but i wish i had gone for the bigger zoom,
remember to read the companies return policy! I originally bought
the nikon 885 and didn't like the camera, so i returned it for the
C3020 with no restocking fee(BS) so i was only out the shipping
cost, check out the companys reviews that's what i did. If you
don't go for the big zoom you will wish you did! the C730 should be
out soon and it has 3mp and 10x zoom, probably gonna be expensive
for awhile though.
Click to expand...
 
i wondered why all the kinda copy postsd appear.. now i know.. this one and the one above should not be.. he he

phil.. this forum spoftware really is cr-p.. even thow i know we are stuck with it.. he he..

trog100
  1. ##
 
Ditch said:
Thanks all.

I was looking at the C-720 and it seems nice, 3MP and 8x zoom, same
case as the 700. A bit expensive, but I found it at
ibuydigital.com for $449. My only reservation is that this
ibuydigital place might be one of those fly-by-night operations.
Customer feedback on pricegrabber.com seems good, though. Could I
rest assured at buying from one of these places? Or should I stick
with the big names and get a lesser camera?

With this camera I'd get 3MP and the big optical zoom. I don't
want a point and shoot 'cause the honeywah wants to take
photography lessons in the future, and the three that I've
considered have all the manual goodies.
Click to expand...
One of the problems with the 720 is that they removed the support for external flash (but did make the onboard flash somewhat stronger), the one touch white balance, and the manual focus options. That might or might not present a problem in the future if your SO wants to take photography lessons (external flash for UZI cameras adds at least $100). I find the red/green-eyes photographs with the onboard flash of the D510Z/C-2100UZ to be very annoying, particularly in pets, where you can't really get them to change where they are looking, even with the so-called red-eye reduction mode.

One note about high zoom cameras. Unless you are in bright light, you probably will need to use a tripod/monopod, learn the ancient art of bracing yourself so that the camera doesn't move, or figure out Danella's secret (who takes great C-700UZ pictures without a tripod). The conventional wisdom is without having a camera with image stabalization (ie, the Olympus C-2100UZ, Olympus E-100RS, or Canon Powershot 90) you need to have the shutter speed at least as fast as 1/focal-length (ie, the 35mm equivalent of the focal length). Ie, if you are shooting at the equivalent of 300mm in 35mm cameras, your shutter speed needs to be 1/300 or faster. Having IS will help somewhat, but it is not a cure-all.

If you can find one, a camera to get is the C-2100UZ, and join us fanatics in the Oly forum. Check every CompUSA and Walmart in town to see if any are left. The C-2100UZ has a ton of features that you can grow into, plus having the 10x lens.
 
I figured what the hey, ordered a C-720 this morning. Hope it arrives in time for the honeymoon next week.

Thanks for all your input. :-) I'm sure I'll have a bunch of questions when it arrives. See y'all in the Olympus forum soon.

Thanks again,
Ditch
 
trog100 said:
mind u as the mega pixel count goes up.. the usefullness of in
camera cropping.. ie digital zoom does go up with it.. still as we
are now the movement blur factor does kinda make it better to do it
afterwards.. still with an imaginary 5 mega pixel camera with say
only two times optical zoom or even none at all.... a little in
camera digital zoom might be useable..

it might go this way with cheap (future) cameras.. i do think the
automatic dismissal of digital zoom harks back to the days of not
enough pixels in the first place..

why do it in camera.. well its quicker and easier.. not all folks
play with PS.. i can even think of one current camera it could be
usefull on.. the 4 mega pixel kodak dx4900 with only two time
optical.. it has enough mega pixels to spare whilst having no
really usefull optical zoom..

mind u i am bound to come up with something u can really disagree
with in the future.. he he he.. whoops..

trog100
  1. #
David Barkin said:
I get a chance to disagree with you! Digital zoom is really a waste
of money. Essentially digital zoom is software interpolation, the
interpolation being done by the camera instead of the computer -
There is no increase in actual data. The above and below
information is for the innitial poster.

Interpolation is a nice gimmick for expanding the size of the final
printed image to avoid "jaggies." But you're better off doing it in
the computer then letting the camera do it. Optical zoom is true
zoom, without interpolation and that is what a buyer should be
looking for.

In other words, all things being equal go for the optical zoom.

Dave
trog100 said:
go for the zoom.. he he

thow isnt there a new 3 mega pixel fairly cheap oly with plenty of
none stabilized zoom.. i forget the number.. ???

trog100
  1. #
padeye said:
Even 1.3mp is adequate for 5x7 injet prints. so you should be
okay. 2mp is okay for an 8x10 if you don't have to crop. If you
fall below 150 linear pixels per inch you'll start seeing jaggies.

Be aware that the camera is just the beginning. You'll easily
spend half as much again on needed accessories. The included
memory card will be woefully inadequate. With smart media you'll
be limited to 128mb and I suggest you get at least two cards.
That's one reason I'd steer you toward a camera that can use
compact flash memory if possible. Also get at least two sets of
NiMH batteries and a fast charger. The Rayovac 1 hour charger is
widely available but there are others. An AC adapter or media
reader will save batteries when you're uploading pictures to
computer.

Read the reviews here and at other digicam sites like dpreview.com
Computer magazines don't review cameras from a photographer's point
of view. You may not think that's important now but it will be as
you learn more.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--The models you're thinking of are OLY c-2100 and c-700. The former is stablized but I beleive it has been discontinued. The latter is not stablized and is available.

All things equal, for for the optical zoom.

JoeR
 
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