LX3 thoughts. Conclusion: Eh. Where's the comparison?

ralphus

Member
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
I'd like to present my experience with the LX3. I was going on a trip to Costa Rica and didn't want to lug around the DSLR. I was torn between it and the FX37--the ZS3 hadn't been released yet.

After reading the reviews here (both were reviewed in group reviews) and consulting the forum (great place, btw), I decided to go with the LX3. I read the manual and learned how to use it and was resolved to take this with me. And I did. Here are my thoughts:

1) Daytime shots were great (although when compared to a couple year old olympus P&S my friend was shooting with, it was not like comparing a DSLR to a P&S, but instead, like comparing a great P&S to a good P&S).

2) The (lack of) zoom was incredibly limiting. Now, I shot mostly with a 50mm lens, so I understand how to work under limiting conditions, but after comparing my shots of iguanas in trees to my friend's shots (with her 10x lens), I was jealous. Sure the shots were marginally less crisp, but she captured the details of a moment I could not. Neither of us would be able to create huge prints, and the quality I gained just didn't seem worth the lack of versatility.

3) The LX3 was not as convenient as I thought it would be. Still had to have an extra bag (jacket pockets--sure, pant/short pockets--no way). Still had to mind the lens cap.

4) Indoor shots weren't much better than my friend's cam. Mine were incredibly noisy. Hers were incredibly blurry. Reduce the ISO? OK, now mine are blurry too. And some of these were indoors with reasonable lighting--not a dark bar. As a point of reference, my favorite way to shoot is with a handheld 50mm f1.4 lens on a Canon 30D (no flash). Yes, I know, I'm biased, but aren't we all. I tried very hard to accept the inherent limitation of a P&S.

I could forgive the lack of zoom and the inconvenience, but in conjunction with the poor indoor quality--even if better than most--it was not worth the marginally crisper daytime (or low-light) shots. I sent the camera back.

I hear all the time how great the LX3 is. And it's a very good P&S. And I can forgive it for not being able to fit in my pocket and having limited zoom. But is the indoor THAT much better than say the ZS3 (that hit the news days after I left on my trip). I'm thinking about picking up the ZS3 and hear people in this forum (sometimes with both) say how much better the LX3 is, but I never really see quality comparisons of both daytime AND low-light conditions. And I'm not talking about zoom, or convenience, or movies, or anything else--just image quality. Is it really THAT much better?

Before I buy the ZS3, I would love to see the comparisons I mentioned (same shots, same conditions, each camera). If anyone can assist me, great, if not, at least I got this off my back. ;)

I'm more of a stalker her than anything, but thanks for listening. Love this forum.
 
Are these two galleries as noisy & blurry as you got with yours indoors?
http://www.pbase.com/rrawzz/agalleryofagallery
http://www.pbase.com/rrawzz/potluckattheuniuni
--
The Amateur Formerly Known as 'UZ'pShoot'ERS' 'Happy Shootin' Comments, Critique, Ridicule, Limericks, Jokes, Hi-jackings, EnthUZIastically, Encouraged... I Insist!



* rrawzz'a'gmail'dot'com * http://www.pbase.com/rrawzz *
Tz5aLx3Fz50Fz30C8080wzE100rsC2100uz
 
Hi,

I appreciate your comments (I had a D90 + 35mm f/1.8 to shoot low-light), but with OIS AND f/2 AND 24mm AND total manual control, I get better real-world results with the LX3. Canon and Nikon have no short, stabilized primes, so forget about shooting anything lower than 1/30 - 50th of a second. You can pull 1/4 safely with the LX3. ISO800 in color and ISO1600 Dynamic B&W is very good for even large prints.

ISO800 + f/2 + OIS will beat or equal anything up to the D3/D700/5dMk2 for low-light for STATIC subjects in the 24-60mm range. Obviously you'll want much higher ISO for moving subjects, but that's another story.

The ZS3 looks like an awesome travel camera, but it lacks ALL manual controls and has a much, much, much slower f/3.2 lens.

Perhaps Panasonic will release a PEN like Oly, but I'm not holding my breath, and that will cost a LOT of money. In the meantime, nothing I've seen really compares to the LX3. I suppose that's why they're sold out everywhere.
 
Some nice compositions....

But yet, I shot mostly portrait style indoors, and it's about the same and maybe a little more noisy--my hand may not be as steady, or I have a tendency to like others' works better than my own.....
The Amateur Formerly Known as 'UZ'pShoot'ERS' 'Happy Shootin' Comments, Critique, Ridicule, Limericks, Jokes, Hi-jackings, EnthUZIastically, Encouraged... I Insist!



* rrawzz'a'gmail'dot'com * http://www.pbase.com/rrawzz *
Tz5aLx3Fz50Fz30C8080wzE100rsC2100uz
 
Really?! If that's the case, I'd be more than happy to try the LX3 out again, assuming I did something really, really wrong. Do you have any examples at ISO800 that you think show off the camera?
 
No it wont. D3 isos 3200 is still cleaner than lx3s iso 800. Even D3s iso 6400 is cleaner than LX3s iso 800. Just use IR comparometer and check it out...The Lx3 is a great little camera but it wont beat the D3 and not even a APS-C camera. Specially shotting RAW...
ISO800 + f/2 + OIS will beat or equal anything up to the D3/D700/5dMk2 for low-light for STATIC subjects in the 24-60mm range. Obviously you'll want much higher ISO for moving subjects, but that's another story.
--
self portrait:



So what the Fu*#@* lies in the shadow of the statue?

Carlos Roncatti Bomfim
 
LOL you're kidding right? Iso 800 is pretty crappy on the LX3! I would never have gone past iso400 on mine and my 50D's iso 1600 smashes the lx3's iso800 maybe wedding photographers should all ditch their full frame gear for an lx3 huh?
Hi,

ISO800 + f/2 + OIS will beat or equal anything up to the D3/D700/5dMk2 for low-light for STATIC subjects in the 24-60mm range.
 
LOL you're kidding right? Iso 800 is pretty crappy on the LX3! I would never have gone past iso400 on mine and my 50D's iso 1600 smashes the lx3's iso800 maybe wedding photographers should all ditch their full frame gear for an lx3 huh?
Hi,

ISO800 + f/2 + OIS will beat or equal anything up to the D3/D700/5dMk2 for low-light for STATIC subjects in the 24-60mm range.
Well, can you pull 1/4 of a second with any of your Cannon primes? I'm guessing you cannot, so you have to bump up to ISO 3200 - 6400, right? I think it's fair to compare ISO 3200 on a 50D to ISO 800 on an LX3.

Again, I'm not talking about ISO performance, OBVIOUSLY almost any dSLR will whoop the LX3, but the vast majority of dSLRs sold don't have stabilized, fast glass.
 
ISO800 + f/2 + OIS will beat or equal anything up to the D3/D700/5dMk2 for low-light for STATIC subjects in the 24-60mm range. Obviously you'll want much higher ISO for moving subjects, but that's another story.
Hmm. I don't use ISO800 on the LX3 except in desperation, much as I might use ISO3200 on an APS-C camera. I agree that usable long shutter speeds on the LX3 will allow the use of lower ISO and in my experience can sometimes actually give better results than a APS-C SLR in some situations, but it's far from being a general rule.

As for matching a modern full-frame camera all I can say is... I'm lost for words. It's such an outrageous assertion that it's not worth debating.
In the meantime, nothing I've seen really compares to the LX3.
I can agree with that point, it's a well-balanced compromise of size and performance that has no peer. But the word "compromise" is important.

--
John Bean [BST ('British Stupid Time' - GMT+1)]

 
First: I wasn't saying the LX3 "matches" a D3, D700, A900, 5dMkII, ect. I said "up to", meaning APS-C cameras.

And my main argument wasn't clearly spelled out, so I'll try again:

If you are in a low-light situation with an LX3 and a D90 you will be able to MATCH the shutter speed/iso performance of the D90 with the LX3 in the 24-60mm range because of OIS. Yes, ISO1600 on the D90 beats the pants off ISO800 (or even possibly 400) on the LX3, but you're going to have to use ISO3200 - 6400 on the D90 to match the 1/4 shutter speed you can use on the LX3 at ISO 400. Static subject or scene is key.

So there, I hope that cleared up what I was trying to say.
 
First: I wasn't saying the LX3 "matches" a D3, D700, A900, 5dMkII, ect. I said "up to", meaning APS-C cameras.
Ah, "up to". The get-out phrase beloved by ad men after making unrealistic claims ;-)

But while I agree you didn't say "matches" you actually said "will beat or equal anything [up to]" which is even more misleading despite the get-out. But no matter, now that you've withdrawn the claim.
If you are in a low-light situation with an LX3 and a D90 you will be able to MATCH the shutter speed/iso performance of the D90 with the LX3 in the 24-60mm range because of OIS. Yes, ISO1600 on the D90 beats the pants off ISO800 (or even possibly 400) on the LX3, but you're going to have to use ISO3200 - 6400 on the D90 to match the 1/4 shutter speed you can use on the LX3 at ISO 400. Static subject or scene is key.
In other words it may give better results in certain rather limited situations, depending on the lens you use on the SLR, an assertion with which I agree. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of the LX3 but I also am a long-time SLR user. I think we LX3 users need to be careful to keep any comparisons meaningful if they're to be of benefit to others with less experience of the camera.

Personally I find the LX3 a good substitute for a SLR even in very poor light but I suspect a lot of people (including the OP) are unwilling/unable to restrict their low-light photography to very low shutter speeds. At higher ISO the LX3 may be best in class but that whole class is terrible above ISO400 compared with even the cheapest entry-level SLR.

--
John Bean [BST ('British Stupid Time' - GMT+1)]

 
According to DOFMaster, at 28mm equivalent focal length, the LX3 has the same DOF as a 5D/24-105 has at f13.7. This means that for the SPECIFIC situation of shooting low-light images where DOF is important, such as dim forests etc. then the LX3 has 41/3 stops advantage over the 5D/24-105 combination. This can of course be "traded" for lower ISO or higher shutter speed, or a combination of both. I was in a rainforest situation a couple of weeks ago, where the only useable shots from 3 shooters with 6 Canon DSLRs between us came from my LX3.
1/25s f/2.0 at 5.1mm iso400



... to get this much DOF on my 5D I would have needed at least f11 (probably smaller) which is 5 stops smaller aperture, which leaves me at ISO3200 and 1/6 second. Not a problem with a tripod and plenty of time - but unattainable hand-held for me
Same with this one:
1/15s f/3.2 at 5.1mm iso400



.. and these images look good printed at A4 and quite acceptable at A3+. I agree fully that the LX3 insn't an alternative in most cases for a DSLR and good lenses, there are situations that it might just be the best way to go.
 
Well, I wouldn't exactly call static/landscape night shots "rather limited" situation for shooting. Depending on what you do, it could be the majority of your shooting.

I also think a certain amount of direct comparison is fair. When you think of the costs and weight involved with a dSLR and fast glass, the fact that you can have a reasonable discussion on which is superior is astonishing. In certain situations a $450 P&S can best a few thousand $$$ worth of camera gear.

Again, I just started here and don't want everybody to think I was trying to say that ISO performance on the LX3 approaches any mid-range dSLR, but the COMBINATION of ISO and OIS and f/2, IMO, does.
In other words it may give better results in certain rather limited situations, depending on the lens you use on the SLR, an assertion with which I agree. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of the LX3 but I also am a long-time SLR user. I think we LX3 users need to be careful to keep any comparisons meaningful if they're to be of benefit to others with less experience of the camera.

Personally I find the LX3 a good substitute for a SLR even in very poor light but I suspect a lot of people (including the OP) are unwilling/unable to restrict their low-light photography to very low shutter speeds. At higher ISO the LX3 may be best in class but that whole class is terrible above ISO400 compared with even the cheapest entry-level SLR.

--
John Bean [BST ('British Stupid Time' - GMT+1)]

 
In certain situations a $450 P&S can best a few thousand $$$ worth of camera gear.

Not likely. At that price point, the DSLR owner will have moved beyond the entry-level camera and dim kit lens.
 
I'm not referring to the kitlens at all. I'm talking about a $1700 24mm-70mm f/2.8 (closest competition to the 24-60mm LX3 lens). Still not stabilized and a full-stop slower at 24mm.
In certain situations a $450 P&S can best a few thousand $$$ worth of camera gear.

Not likely. At that price point, the DSLR owner will have moved beyond the entry-level camera and dim kit lens.
 
Hi There

I have an LX3 and an Olympus E30 which is a stabilised body, so I can hand hold in low light easily as well as the LX3. The lens on the E30 is a 28-108 (14-54 on four thirds) equivalent. The LX3 does quite well for what it is but does not really challenge the E30 in poor light.

For size the LX3 is a clear winner. For shooting moving subjects or in very bright or dim light the E30 is a clear winner.

Like I say the LX3 is really very good for what it is. The lens is great as well and I have found the 24mm wideangle quite useful, especially across restaurant tables.

Like the saying goess, it is horses for courses.

--
Berni29

E30 & 14-54 previously E510 (much loved), E300, E1.
 
Nicely written. When I carry my 40D or one of my film cameras I also prefer to shoot with a fast prime, so I understand where you're comin' from. It sounds like the LX3 was not the best camera for your needs.

FWIW, I find the LX3's low-light performance is satisfactory, within certain limitations. The f2.0 lens and the OIS help a lot. Beyond that, I figure noise is unavoidable on a P&S. The best I can hope for is that the quality of the noise will be relatively unoffensive. Me, I actually like grain. If I'm using a film camera I'm probably shooting B&W Tri-X at 400-1600 ISO, and that has no shortage of grain. So I was rather pleased to find that the LX3's high ISO output in Dynamic B&W Mode actually looks a lot like high-speed B&W film. Run it through a bit of post-processing (add more grain!) and you can get some even nicer results. This doesn't suit all tastes or subjects, I know, but for those cases Noise Ninja or something similar is works well enough for me.

I find the zoom range is an acceptable compromise. I prefer wide-angle shooting and seldom use a telephoto in daily life, so it's a good fit for me. In fact, I would probably not have bought the LX3 if it did not have a fast, wide lens. Yes, there are times when it would be great to have a little more reach, but that would inevitably call for sacrifice in either wide-end range or lens speed, and that's not worth it to me. I carry my SLR and a zoom if I really think I'll need them.

I always use a belt case, so a few centimeters either way doesn't matter much to me. My pockets are not a comfortable place for cameras. Again, it's a matter of what sort of lens can physically fit within a certain amount of space and I'm happy with the overall size.

Lens caps and I have never gotten along. They usually spend more time in my pocket and on my bedstand than with my cameras. The LX3's dangling lens cap eventually did get on my nerves, so I bought and adapted one of those nifty Ricoh caps with the automatic spring-loaded petals. It's great! Panasonic should seriously consider licensing Ricoh's design and including a made-to-order version with their future cameras.

--
-Bryan
http://bcostin.typepad.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bcostin/
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top