A330 - Going Back

I received the A330 this week and am definitely going to return it. The menu system is nice. The image quality is fine also. The reason for returning is simple - THE GRIP! I have large hands and this grip literally hurts my hands after holding it for a couple of minutes. Not sure what Sony was thinking with the new design...It is the first DSLR I have ever purchased with this issue.

Probably that in the this segment small is sexy. I do think they are really looking

I am curious about how a small grip hurt large hands. Can you give us more detail, how are you holding it where does it hurt.

I only heald it for a few minutes and it seemed fine, not like my A700 of course. But I would like to know more from someone with extend time holding the camera.
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Ken - A700 Owner..
Some of my work at:
http://gallery.cascadephotoworks.com

Ken...I can't speak for Todd3608, but by coincidence, I was in a Best Buy today in Chicago and handled both the 230 and the 330. I too have large hands...not huge, but big enough to miss the thicker grip.

The new grip design may be no problem for those with smaller hands, but for me, something was missing...the solid feel, the "made just for you" kind of satisfaction I have on my 7D and my a700.

What I realized was that I had to keep moving my right hand trying to get a better grip in order to get the cameras to level-up when I was looking in either the viewfinder of the 230 or the LCD Live View on the 330. The 230 & 330 grips seem to come to a point at the absolute front where the fingers wrap and that feeling is insecure. It's like grasping the edge of a packing box. It almost is sharp, like a blade. Also, there is always some kind of slippage when I reached for the fn button or the even the joy stick. And, I keenly feel that pointed front. It isn't comfortable nor very utilitarian. For me, a thicker grip with the concave finger molds, keeps that kind of movement to a minimum.
For me, and I think for many, the new design will prove an ergonomic mistake.

And as I thought about it after I left the store, I surmized that even those of us with smaller hands might be uneasy with the pointed edge (absolute front)
of the grip.

Will that affect the picture quality? For me...yes. If it doesn't handle right, I don't want it.

I think that the newer Sony models were made to attract beginners specially women.

Though I much prefer the larger and more traditional grip to fully fill my hand when shooting - which is why the A300 works better for me, I was able to hold the A330 OK and shoot with it. I wouldn't call it comfortable - but doable...because of the thumb at the back end of the camera to 'clamp' the camera, it felt much like a typical P&S does but larger. Think of the old Instamatic days...square, no real grip, but good enough. But I was also trying it with the kit lens - smaller and lighter. I can see it getting more uncomfortable to shoot with as you get to longer and heavier lenses...and god forbid anyone trying to shoot one of these with a Bigma or Tammy 200-500.

No...my bigger problem that makes this just edge out the Canon digital Rebels as the most uncomfortable camera FOR ME, is when walking around with the camera not shooting. With a larger grip, like on the A300/350/700 etc, It fills in your hand behind your fingers, so you aren't just holding on with fingertips. Your fingers curl around the grip at about 90 degrees from front, which means when you hold the camera with one hand, and drop it down at your side to walk around...the camera remains completely in your grip, still comfortable, and easy to hang onto without even exerting any clamping pressure with the thumb - it is essentially hanging on the curl of your fingers by the extending grip. With the A330 on the other hand, I was almost scared to hang the camera down in one hand, and found myself digging that sharp edge of the small grip into my finger joints, and pressing down with my thumb on back of the camera, to make sure it didn't slip away. It becomes very quickly tiresome - I wouldn't want to be taking 5-10 mile walks with that camera hanging in my right hand as my A300 does now with the 18-250 attached. I had eliminated the Canons from my choices due in large part to the camera being uncomfortable to hold on the insubstantial grip. For me personally, the new Alphas make the Canon grip seem downright huge.

It may appeal to some - everyone's taste is different. But it doesn't work for me at all. If all Sony designs were to go this route in the future, I'd have to switch brands. That's just me!

--
Justin
galleries: http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg

The general public seem to be convinced that smaller is better, and that is what the camera designers are turning out. Most consumers won't literally live with a camera, like a lot of us here do, so it's OK for them. I keep the vertical grip on most of the time simply because I like the way the camera feels and handles with it, but it's probably seen as a excessively big package by the average tourist.
--
tsiya [Bob]
http://www.pbase.com/tsiya/
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v244/tsiya/
http://cabbagehammock.blogspot.com/

tsiya said:

The general public seem to be convinced that smaller is better, and that is what the camera designers are turning out. Most consumers won't literally live with a camera, like a lot of us here do, so it's OK for them. I keep the vertical grip on most of the time simply because I like the way the camera feels and handles with it, but it's probably seen as a excessively big package by the average tourist.

Click to expand...

As far as holding it when walking, is the grip strap available for it? That should help a lot.

Walt

Walt:

The Grip Strap is a good idea. But, I don't think the over-all feel of the grip on fingersl will be any better. Your thinking, however is very wise. Based on your thinking, I would suggest a hand-grip as an included accessory with the 230-330 and 380. By the way, will the current grip fit the new models? They are quite small.

I have to agree that the grip is very very uncomfortable, I spent some time with the A230 in my local PC World, they have all the cameras out on pods so you can handle them and take shots. The A230 grip even in my small hands is just so awkward to hold onto, it's not just the grip itself its the position of the shutter release and the dial.

I was so dissapointed by the build quality as well, it felt really cheap and nasty. I picked up a Canon 450D which was next to it and it felt so much better, and thats the 450D which we all know is a plastic built to a price camera.

In terms of people picking up a few cameras in store and feeling them, the new base range are just a joke. I am all for going after a new market with easy to use cameras, but to build something like this is just a farce.

I love the feel of my A200, and will probably upgrade to A700 now the price is so low, I love me Minolta glass and hope that Sony don't commit commercial suicide with the Alpha range, if you think that is not possible just look at the Sony PSP, PS3 and walkman brands.

When it became obvious that Panasoinic was ending the FZ series I picked up a refurb FZ30 to hold in reserve. I'll probably do the same to back up my Alpha 200.

Barring a major technology breakthrough I don't expect future cameras to make what I have now totally obsolete. The FZ30 is fine for a compact camera to use in a hurry with no preparation. I can't think of a reason I'd need a shirt pocket camera. That being said, it depends on your lifestyle, and I suppose that I'm now in the dinosaur group.
--
tsiya [Bob]
http://www.pbase.com/tsiya/
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v244/tsiya/
http://cabbagehammock.blogspot.com/

I talked to Sony rep about this. They said that you need to hold it differently. You might want to use your THUMB (yes, not your index finger) to press the shutter button. So you are holding it like you are holding a a joystick, with your thumb on the top/shutter button and your other fingers are holding the front surface.

They "invented" this since the regular hold (index finger on the shutter button), there a muscle strain on your wrist.

While I agree with their assessment, I would say that the THUMB-shooting style is more appropriate for chest-level camera placement rather than bringing the camera up to your eye level (using the viewfinder).

Armand Ardika said:

I talked to Sony rep about this. They said that you need to hold it differently. You might want to use your THUMB (yes, not your index finger) to press the shutter button. So you are holding it like you are holding a a joystick, with your thumb on the top/shutter button and your other fingers are holding the front surface.

They "invented" this since the regular hold (index finger on the shutter button), there a muscle strain on your wrist.

While I agree with their assessment, I would say that the THUMB-shooting style is more appropriate for chest-level camera placement rather than bringing the camera up to your eye level (using the viewfinder).

Click to expand...

My god what a thing to say!

This thumb thing is back again!

Ist we had the use thumbs to change top plate settings, but this is going to far ;-)

What next? We need to use our toes to operate the camera?? lol

Who are they kidding? Time to invade sony design HQ with some folks who "use and understand how to make cameras"

Looks like a nerd attack from failed college students, than a serious camera design effort.

More likely they discovered too late that the camera didn't fit a human hand, and came up with the thumb foolishness!
--
tsiya [Bob]
http://www.pbase.com/tsiya/
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v244/tsiya/
http://cabbagehammock.blogspot.com/

Barry Fitzgerald said:

Armand Ardika said:

I talked to Sony rep about this. They said that you need to hold it differently. You might want to use your THUMB (yes, not your index finger) to press the shutter button. So you are holding it like you are holding a a joystick, with your thumb on the top/shutter button and your other fingers are holding the front surface.

They "invented" this since the regular hold (index finger on the shutter button), there a muscle strain on your wrist.

While I agree with their assessment, I would say that the THUMB-shooting style is more appropriate for chest-level camera placement rather than bringing the camera up to your eye level (using the viewfinder).

Click to expand...

My god what a thing to say!

This thumb thing is back again!

Ist we had the use thumbs to change top plate settings, but this is going to far ;-)

What next? We need to use our toes to operate the camera?? lol

Who are they kidding? Time to invade sony design HQ with some folks who "use and understand how to make cameras"

Looks like a nerd attack from failed college students, than a serious camera design effort.

Click to expand...

I would suggest that those of us that have evolved to opposale thumbs might try this.. before assuming it doesn't work.. but it is different and I am not buying it until I test it myself.

I do like the someone here actually thinks the camera went into production with out testing mockups on focus groups etc. You think Sony just said it looks good and ordered 300K to be built.

It might be interesting to see how people hold P&S etc.

I am not sold one way or the other..yet

--
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Ken - A700 Owner..
Some of my work at:
http://gallery.cascadephotoworks.com

It appears Sony was going for the smallest, lightest, cheapest, easiest to use entry level DSLR in its category, trying to capture the market from those upgrading from P&S.

I played wth the A330 in a store a few days ago and after about a minute my fingers really h-u-r-t. I'm not talking about discomfort here. I'm talking about real p-a-i-n. That grip (edge is a more appropriate term) is a huge mistake !

They didn't have the A230 in stock. But this looks like it might be the camera for me. If I like it I won't hold back a purchase because of the grip... sorry edge... In that case I will apply a hefty coat of silicone adhesive sealant on the edge to form a round grip. That stuff sticks like crazy, and feels like supple rubber for years. I'm sure I could carve/form an acceptable grip. This is not ideal but the rest of the camera seems close to ideal for me.

Just in case some of you haven't seen already:
http://www.photoreview.com.au/Sony/reviews/digitalslr/sony-dslr-a380.aspx

--
Claude
There are no bad pictures. Only bad retouchers.

I was in Target today and noticed the 330 as I walked past. Of course I had to stop and pick it up.

Anyone who says their fingers hurt after holding the camera for a few minutes, excuse me but "Huh?"

Was it a little odd, yes. Painful? Uh, no.

Did I need to wrap my thumb around the top to use the shutter release, again, no.

It struck me as lightweight, reasonably well built small camera. The liveview worked well and seemed handy, the viewfinder was not unuseable, the help screens were sort of odd. The AF points in the viewfinder were different.

The Canon and Nikon offerings were next to it. I wouldn't buy the 330 before the Canon or Nikon but I could see how some people might.

I'm guessing image quality at lower ISO's would be about the same so Sony doesn't need to be embarrased over the 330 but its not really impressive either.

One last thought on the matter discussed here...

The grip controversy on the 230-330 and 380 may be Sony's first real diversion from the strong Minolta legacies. Minolta SLR-DSLR ergonomics were, in my experience, always a a major selling point, after image quality, lenses, etc.

One wonders if the inherited Minolta designers now with Sony had any input on these new designs...ergonomically speaking, of course.

Cavalcade Roger said:

One last thought on the matter discussed here...

The grip controversy on the 230-330 and 380 may be Sony's first real diversion from the strong Minolta legacies. Minolta SLR-DSLR ergonomics were, in my experience, always a a major selling point, after image quality, lenses, etc.

One wonders if the inherited Minolta designers now with Sony had any input on these new designs...ergonomically speaking, of course.

Click to expand...

Actually the new designs look related the smaller Consumer Maxium 5 SLRS.. It may be this is as much part of Minolta team and Sony team on design.

Not the grip is smaller and shorter not goint the the top like on the more advanced SLRs and previous DSLRs with the shutter button up top away from the main grip



---------
Ken - A700 Owner..
Some of my work at:
http://gallery.cascadephotoworks.com

Ken_5D said:

Actually the new designs look related the smaller Consumer Maxium 5 SLRS.. It may be this is as much part of Minolta team and Sony team on design.

Not the grip is smaller and shorter not goint the the top like on the more advanced SLRs and previous DSLRs with the shutter button up top away from the main grip

Click to expand...

Sure Sony took a bit of the film 5 (and I have 3 of em!) and messed about with it.

Not that the 5 has a great grip (it's a lot better with the battery pack IMO)

Thing is, the 5 even to this day is still a pretty decent camera, and shockingly it out specs these ones in many areas!

Plus you can lock exposure, and you have a flash raise button. Then we come to the great but sadly missed "P" mode button. Surely a clever design choice, and one that Sony missed.

The 5 was a very affordable, but still a well featured camera, these new ones are neither.

The idea is to take the best minolta bits and improve on them, not take the weakest ones!