E-P1 + New Samsung = Death of the SLR?

The more I learn about the coming NX from Samsung, and seeing the record setting response to the E-P1, it is clear to me that the SLR is now obsolete. If Samsung delivers the promised "EVF that is the equal of any optical VF" there will simply be no reason to complicate a camera with the bulk, expense and cost of a flipping mirror. The NX will increase sensor size to APS. Canon and Nikon better get busy with a ff hybrid or they will be toast. If E-P1 sales trends continue, and the NX delivers all that it promises, I can see these two companies owning the enitre digicam market. And don't dismiss the Samsung label. 20 years ago we scoffed at their TV sets as cheap junk.

Unless and until someone works out an electronic shutter, the live view blackout will always make high speed burst shooting and tracking a chore compared to a good OVF.

Kind Regards

Brian
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Hardly the death of the DSLR, but a forced evolution.

When we evolved from SLR to DSLR, body sizes increased along the way. I'm holding right now my early '80s Pentax ME Super, which is much closer in size to my EP-1 than to my XTi (with the Rebels considered one of the smaller DSLRs available).

I think for most users, they want a smaller camera. For me, I am looking forward to a FF sensor in an EP-1 sized body (that is, the digital equivalent of my Pentax ME Super), and one where I can get high fps and be able to track something in a viewfinder (not just an LCD). I believe this will be made eventually. I don't see a reason for empty proclamations like "the DSLR is dead." Not sure what the point of that is, other than perhaps to bait responses like this one

I agree, but once again the hybrid flexibility proves why it is best. If high speed burst shooting is what you are after, then there is nothing to prevent an optical viewfinder to be attached as Olympus has showed us. If they become popular enough, then lenses could be sold as kits with the appropriate finder. And, there is nothing to prevent a variable optical finder either. As of now, a good one is expensive--the Voigtlander 15-35 is over $300. Check the Samsung forum for (apparently) reliable reports from those who have seen the NX at a Korean industry trade show this week.

Not baiting anyone, just my observation of how profound a change the hybrid format is. And what great cameras this kind of design will produce. Or already has produced in the case of the E-P1.

...but they will be only one of many segments in the future. For many years, especially before digital, SLRs were the most flexible way of doing photography. SLRs had made rangefinder cameras a niche solutions, as they could do "most" things better. Still, rangefinders even exist in digital age as a very specialized solution - they have less noisy shutters and are more compact, but don't have autofocus and struggle with long focal lengths.

Now that cameras like the G1 gain good electronical viewfinders and reasonably good autofocus, they will be better alternatives to DSLRs for many people - yet for fast action DSLRs will be the tool of choice for a while. Their importance will lessen the better the electronic viewfinders will get - how fast and how much remains to be seen.

What exites me most about the E-P1 is, that it not only tries to be a small DSLR like the G1 does, but is a completely different form factor - more like a classical rangefinder. Just because SLRs were the most practical tool for such a long time, it doesn't mean that their way of doing things is the optimal for everyone...

Peter

while people keep tauting the advantage, one must not also ignore the disadvantage. In the end, the Optical layout of the DSLR vs the EVF sensor liveview based fromaing, composing, and focusing is altogether 2 different mode of operation where in plenty of case one can be intercheagable with the otgers, there is simply many cases one is better ..

Just as SLR never really replace other form of camera form factor in the past. its highly unlikely that the Optical component of the DSLR will be phased out, especially after the fact that Optical mirror box based DSLR can be made to operate as EVF based , but not the other way round ..

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• Franka -

WT21 said:

my Pentax ME Super), and one where I can get high fps and be able to track > something in a viewfinder (not just an LCD). I believe this will be made > eventually. I don't see a reason for empty proclamations like "the DSLR is dead." > Not sure what the point of that is, other than perhaps to bait responses like this > one

Click to expand...

it was phrased as a question. it is not a proclamation, and certain not an empty claim.

even without a good EVF, an evolved EP1 with a good and bright built in OVF like those found in rangefinders will suffice.

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Built-in ovf in rangefinders rarely go beyond 90mm. And at that focal length the cropped area is tiny. When you consider that nearly every lens ever built for 35slr and 35 rangefinder can fit on an E-P1, then having a built in ovf becomes useless. It would be impossible to cover the spread of potential lenses that might be attached. EVF doesn't care what focal length you look thru and neither does detachable ovf if you have matched the lens.

pentakz said:

The more I learn about the coming NX from Samsung, and seeing the record setting response to the E-P1, it is clear to me that the SLR is now obsolete. If Samsung delivers the promised "EVF that is the equal of any optical VF" there will simply be no reason to complicate a camera with the bulk, expense and cost of a flipping mirror. The NX will increase sensor size to APS. Canon and Nikon better get busy with a ff hybrid or they will be toast. If E-P1 sales trends continue, and the NX delivers all that it promises, I can see these two companies owning the enitre digicam market. And don't dismiss the Samsung label. 20 years ago we scoffed at their TV sets as cheap junk.

Click to expand...

I bet that a year from now DSLRs will outsell expensive m4/3 models and EVF APS-C cameras 10-1.
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I don't know what outsells what but IMO, m43 will boost DSLR sales in a couple years, successfully serving as bridge that makes the crossing from P&S to DSLR easier.

If that means you think all DSLR's will outsell all hybrid with detachable lenses by 10 to 1, then I'll take that bet. Name your stakes.

I do not know what the hell is so important about full frame, but you going to have to wait a long long time for a full frame camera the size of the EP1. If it ever happens.

pentakz said:

If that means you think all DSLR's will outsell all hybrid with detachable lenses by 10 to 1, then I'll take that bet. Name your stakes.

Click to expand...

Since we're talking in one years time, I'm backing PerL on this one big time.

detMarlowe said:

I do not know what the hell is so important about full frame, but you going to have to wait a long long time for a full frame camera the size of the EP1. If it ever happens.

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Narrow DOF and better high ISO because it can gather more light. A 43 sensor maker might be able to make "as good as" jpgs as a FF maker, but the if they put that into a larger sensor, they'd be better still! (of course, there are other trade-offs in lens length, but it would be nice to have both -- a 43 sensor AND a FF sensor both in small bodies).

Also, subject isolation in FF is smoother and easier than with smaller sensors.

Both of the above are true, whether one wishes to acknowledge it or not. Of course, someone might not care about either, which is certainly a rational position.

Since there are now countless models of DSLRs and (at present) three models of µFT, which have to fight the barrier of the unknown, and thus DSLRs probably outsell mFT by 1000 to 1, and all the countless sports photographers will go on using CaNikon DSLRs, and the CaNikon crowd will not have (within 1 year) a mFT type (even APS-C version) to choose from, considering all this, ...

... the 10 to 1 will represent a huge success to the EVIL kind, and a serious sign of things to come!
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Antonio

http://ferrer.smugmug.com/

EP-EVF is what I liked to see First

I just hope to see a EP with a GH-1 type of EVF or better. with at least the same level of AF.
and a OLY 7-14 f2.8 ... and I am there!

HG

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Love f2 Oly lens wide open ... 14-35mm f2, & a 50mm f2+1.4TC is my fav. combo on two 'IS' oly bodys.

pentakz said:

If that means you think all DSLR's will outsell all hybrid with detachable lenses by 10 to 1, then I'll take that bet. Name your stakes.

Click to expand...

Betting man huh? You are guaranteed to lose that bet, IMO, and in case you don't just ask but predict the death of DSLR at hand of cameras your mentioned, I'll gladly provide you with another opportunity to lose. Name your time frame, and if it's a reasonable one, we can discuss stakes.

In case the OP asked honest question, invitation is open to all "EP-1 is a DSLR killer" dreamers.

And is the G1 outselling it's main DSLR rivals? Nope not even close.

The NX looks interesting, but we have no info.

I just don't see myself being comfortable without an OVF, I simply don't want any artificial representation of a scene, it destroys the pre-visualisation thing many like ;-)

I doubt the OVF will go away..if it does I can fall back on my 5 film bodies anyway!

pentakz said:

The more I learn about the coming NX from Samsung, and seeing the record setting response to the E-P1, it is clear to me that the SLR is now obsolete. If Samsung delivers the promised "EVF that is the equal of any optical VF" there will simply be no reason to complicate a camera with the bulk, expense and cost of a flipping mirror. The NX will increase sensor size to APS. Canon and Nikon better get busy with a ff hybrid or they will be toast. If E-P1 sales trends continue, and the NX delivers all that it promises, I can see these two companies owning the enitre digicam market.

Click to expand...

Somehow you seem to be trying to ignore the fact that Panasonic even exists not to mention E-P1 excellent IQ is coming from the Pany developed 4/3rds sensor. Despite the success of the G1 on the world scene and the fact that Pany at present unable to keep up production of GH1 to meet demand, you dismiss Pany as being irrelevant? Not to mention that Panys m4/3 lens and models faster AF and they do have a EVF and flash. and producing the only m4/3 wa zoom or all-in-one zoom at present. Perhaps you will change your tune in a few months when Pany releases their own version of rangefinder model rumored to be similar size to E-P1 maybe a bit larger but with EVF & flash included?

I would certainly not expect DSLRs to disappear from the scene and I regard the E620 and new K7D to be examples of the very best which others will try to match for features and size. My hopes would be that the E3 replacement be same features as present but same size as downsized K7. While I look at the m4/3s to be perfect for travel or complimenting a larger DSLR system. I would see at lot of sense E-P2 or Pany mini or GH1 being the only camera needed.

From what we have seen so far from rumors the Samsung NX10 will pose a threat to both Oly and Pany if the rumored pricing will be much lower with both a prime and zoom included. I believe that m4/3rds will still have the advantage for a smaller system because of the 2x form factor.

safaridon