Dust in SD14

Hi,

after my first 1000 pictures using SD14 I can see dust on new ones:-( I am just wondering what is the source of the dust: sensor or lens. Unfortunately I have just 1 lens so far. Is there any easy way how to prove if the source of the dust is sensor or lens?

Does anyone have any real experience about sensor cleaning product available on the market? Which one is the best and if beginner like me can do it himself?

Thanks
Milan

To reveal the dust, set the camera in "A" mode, close the lens down to minimum, f/16-f/22 range. Take a photo of a white piece of paper out of focus or the sky.

Exposure time is not critical since you don't want an in focus image captured anyway.

It's not likely that the dust is on the lens, but if you have a zoom lens take two shots one at wide and one at tele. If the dust in the image changes then it's in the lens.

Most "dust" is small round specks of material from the shutter mechanism. I clean the sensor only when the dust gets bad and then only by using a blower bulb.
td
--
http://www.pbase.com/tucsondave

In the past I've used wet swabs or a nylonbrush to remove dust from the sensor. Now, I use the Dust-Aid Platinum sensor cleaner. Based on my success (getting mulitple dust specks off in one attempt), the Dust-Aid system is the best I've used.
--
My humble photo gallery: http://ntotrr.smugmug.com

Dust in or on any lens can never appear on any image. The only lens that it could was the (from memory) 5mm Nikon of many moons ago, where you could hire the lens (it cost a bomb and only about 5 were made) but was with an operator - because any mark on the huge front element would appear in the image as it was (the front element) in focus.

Any dust marks will be on the sensor - and the protective glass in the body entrance - if that gets dust - that will also not appear in any image.

A search will reveal lots of ways to clean the sensor - it has been covered many, many times and people will offer different solutions.

--
Zone8

The photograph isolates and perpetuates a moment of time: an important and revealing moment, or an unimportant and meaningless one, depending upon the photographer's understanding of his subject and mastery of his process. -Edward Weston
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS

Milanpro said:

Hi,
after my first 1000 pictures using SD14 I can see dust on new ones:-(
I am just wondering what is the source of the dust: sensor or lens.
Unfortunately I have just 1 lens so far. Is there any easy way how to
prove if the source of the dust is sensor or lens?
Does anyone have any real experience about sensor cleaning product
available on the market? Which one is the best and if beginner like
me can do it himself?

Click to expand...

I cleaned the sensor on my SD10 quite a few times... but the SD14 has much less tendency to 'spots' than the SD10 so I've never cleaned SD14.... Yes, a "beginner" can do it. Just be careful with the filter... especially replacing it. Follow instructions in the manual, do NOT force it or bend it as it can break.

I used the art brush technique with the SD10... special brush products in the SD10 era (2004-early 2007) were expensive (probably still are) and for gently brushing the sensor I did the following.

Very soft brush from art supply store about the width of the sensor. Clean, cleaned, cleaned it with a spot of dishwashing detergent, then rinsed it, rinsed again, multiple times, let it dry. This was all to remove any potential residue of 'sizing' or anything from the store.

Then when dry, spritzed it with a slight bit of canned air to put a bit of static charge hopefully to the brush.

First practiced light, sweeping, cleaning motion on some lenses.. and to check brush was really clean.

Then cleaned the sensor following INSTRUCTIONS as to how to access and ref IR-filter. Checked against the sky, per ref above.
I've never had to use a 'wet' cleaning method

PS: If you only have a spot or two in the same place in photos (say in a sky area) it's much easier to use the band-aid tool or clone type tool in a photoshop program to remove the spot. Only when the spots became really annoying and too many did I resort to cleaning the sensor.
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischman (newest photos)

I did series of pictures with SD14. I am using 18-200 DC lens.
I performed the test taking 3 pictures of sky.
At 18 and 100 F20 I can see dust particle on the picture.
At full tele 200 F20 the particle is not there anymore.

Therefore I am wondering that sensor is actually ok but my issue is probably with the lens. I assume that this dust thing is not covered in warranty scheme of SIGMA.

here's what 'dust spots' look like ... after 10,235 shots on a SD14 http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman/image/112552023

I put this photo online when a similar discussion arose some months ago; this is a 2008 shot.

the classic 'test' is as described in post above, shoot the sky at say a small aperture, like F16... you would see the spots clearly. at wider apertures like F4 you might not see the spots..

I've never been really clear (no pun intended) if stuff on lenses will show... smudges will, I think, but stuff on lenses or filters, I'm not sure.. or situations may vary.

Dust spots are not a "warranty" item for DSLRs in my understanding except perhaps for a situation such as a new , unused SD14 under warranty with something obvious on the sensor from the factory.

The SD14 dust protector actually works well to protect from outside gunk in the air when changing lenses; compared too to other DSLRs where there is nothing between a lens removed and the camera inside chamber! eeek, I was changing lenses that way (a Pentax DSLR) yesterday; I try to hold the camera upside down. The SD14 is more comforting for me to change lenses outdoors!

But even if you don't change lenses, in theory and practice stuff could get inside the camera. The SD14 isn't a sealed body, ie waterproof, or fully gasketed or whatever is done to 'seal' a camera.
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann

SandyF said:

But even if you don't change lenses, in theory and practice stuff
could get inside the camera. The SD14 isn't a sealed body, ie
waterproof, or fully gasketed or whatever is done to 'seal' a camera.

Click to expand...

That's what I was told by Sigma USA the last time my SD14 was in for sensor cleaning. My sensor is dusty again, and I don't change lenses at all. Following Zone8's advice to the OP to do some searching for past threads on cleaning the sensor, I came across this information in the Sigma User Forum:

"One of the prime sources of dust and particles which settle onto the imager is the shutter mechanism itself. As with all mechanical systems, especially when new, the shutter mechanical components will wear and as they do, shed particles. The production and release of particles will diminish as the shutter settles in, but this phenomenon will never reach a level of zero. So, if you get a SD14, attach a lens, and never again open the camera body, you will still accumulate imager dust particles. The greatest accumulation being exactly while the SD14 is "brand new."

If true, maybe I'll just exercise my shutter on unimportant stuff this summer then have it cleaned again in the fall. That way, maybe I'll get more time out of it before dust crops up again.

Other recent threads have mentioed "cloning out" visible dust spots. SPP doesn't provide this option. I know Photoshop has been mentioned as a product that can do this, but I don't relish spending $699 on software to fix dust problems. Are there any cheaper, simpler programs you know of that offer this function?

jrtrent said:

SandyF said:

But even if you don't change lenses, in theory and practice stuff
could get inside the camera. The SD14 isn't a sealed body, ie
waterproof, or fully gasketed or whatever is done to 'seal' a camera.

Click to expand...

That's what I was told by Sigma USA the last time my SD14 was in for
sensor cleaning. My sensor is dusty again, and I don't change lenses
at all. Following Zone8's advice to the OP to do some searching for
past threads on cleaning the sensor, I came across this information
in the Sigma User Forum:

"One of the prime sources of dust and particles which settle onto the
imager is the shutter mechanism itself. As with all mechanical
systems, especially when new, the shutter mechanical components will
wear and as they do, shed particles. The production and release of
particles will diminish as the shutter settles in, but this
phenomenon will never reach a level of zero. So, if you get a SD14,
attach a lens, and never again open the camera body, you will still
accumulate imager dust particles. The greatest accumulation being
exactly while the SD14 is "brand new."

Click to expand...

The SD14 shutter is MUCH better ref 'shedding' than the SD10 (SD9). I'd cleaned my SD10 something like 8 times in about 6800 images and never yet had to clean a SD14....but that particular SD14 with the 10,000 images was reaching the point that the spots were annoying even me ;-)

jrtrent said:

If true, maybe I'll just exercise my shutter on unimportant stuff
this summer then have it cleaned again in the fall. That way, maybe
I'll get more time out of it before dust crops up again.

Other recent threads have mentioed "cloning out" visible dust spots.
SPP doesn't provide this option. I know Photoshop has been mentioned
as a product that can do this, but I don't relish spending $699 on
software to fix dust problems. Are there any cheaper, simpler
programs you know of that offer this function?

Click to expand...

I use Photoshop Elements ... I bought PSElements version 5 from Amazon for under $80 I recall. It has all the functions I want rather than a full version of Photoshop or other heavy duty editing programs. The current version is something like PSElements version 7.

I prefer to do most RAW processing in SPPx and use the PSElements really just for cataloging, occasional cropping or editing in particular types of photos. Before SPP3.5.1 it was also my printing software. Now that SPP3.5.1 has a print feature I hardly have opened and used PSElements in days if not weeks.

Also my older PSE5/ACR4.6 doesn't support my new DP2 X3F files... and Adobe set up the new ACRx version needed as the RAW processing base that the new ACR5.x won't work with PSElements 5 ... so I'll eventually have to buy an updated PSE to have it read my DP2 X3F RAWs before RAW conversion.

At present, I'm just processing the DP2 RAWs in SPP3.5.1 and then importing the JPEGs to PSElements v5 for cataloging purposes.

I've usually used the band-aid tool I call it, for dust spots, like an eraser, just rub over the spot and voila it's gone. The software picks up surrounding color to 'erase' an imperfection. The cloning tool is slightly more difficult: you pick a spot, grab the color from that spot and then stamp it over the imperfection.

I truly don't find a couple dust spots a problem at all... I just blob them out, I call it. But when an image starts to look like it has measles.. then the sensor needs a cleaning.
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann

Unfortunately, the current version of Photoshop Elements requires a faster processor than the current version of Photoshop (my processor isn't quite 2 GHz in speed). Amazon lists older versions of Photoshop Elements available from some vendors, so that sounds like my best option. Thanks!

jrtrent said:

Unfortunately, the current version of Photoshop Elements requires a
faster processor than the current version of Photoshop (my processor
isn't quite 2 GHz in speed). Amazon lists older versions of
Photoshop Elements available from some vendors, so that sounds like
my best option. Thanks!

Click to expand...

I have PSElements 5 updated with ACR4.6 I think on my 'oldest' computer.. which is my little travel computer.. with only 512MB RAM and a deadly slow processor probably. ACR is the underlying RAW processor which is a PLUG-IN to the PSElements program. If you buy an older version of PSElements, that should be fine (and cheaper!) but you should be able to update that version to ACR4.6 in my opinion for best results (ie I know PSE v 5 is okay as that's what I have).

Let's see if I can do the ACR versions off the top of my head, anyone correct me if I'm wrong.

PSE v5 came with ACR4.0 which is AWFUL with SD14 RAW.. it opens/processes but you MUST update to a better ACR. ACR4.1 is the first ACR which supports the SD14 X3F RAW properly

ACR4.6 is the first ACR which supports DP1 RAW properly (plus of course SD14 RAW)

the current ACR5.x series won't go into PSElements5 .. but I think might go into PSE6 (??) I'm not sure about that point.

Check your OS too... I have the PSE5/ACR4.6 on OS's WinXP as well as on computers with Win Vista.
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann

jrtrent wrote:
Are there any cheaper, simpler

jrtrent said:

programs you know of that offer this function?

Click to expand...

Yes - a free one too. GIMPSHOP (Not just GIMP) offers virtually all that PhotoShop offers. An excellent offering which considering it is free, begs the question how can Adobe justify the excessive charges for PhotoShop and the increasing charges and requirements for later Elements! GimpShop is constantly being improved but even as now, a great programme for the cash-strapped photographer as well as those who could afford PS.

http://www.gimpshop.com/

--
Zone8

The photograph isolates and perpetuates a moment of time: an important and revealing moment, or an unimportant and meaningless one, depending upon the photographer's understanding of his subject and mastery of his process. -Edward Weston
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS

I am OK with your suggestion to get rid of dust spots using additional software from e.g. Adobe. I am having just 1 so far. It looks exactly like on your picture.

I am still wondering why when I am taking pictures at 18mm F20 the particle is visible but at 200mm F20 there is no particle. Lens looks clean. Therefore it is mystery for me

Anyway thanks for help

Milanpro said:

Hi,
after my first 1000 pictures using SD14 I can see dust on new ones:-(
I am just wondering what is the source of the dust: sensor or lens.
Unfortunately I have just 1 lens so far. Is there any easy way how to
prove if the source of the dust is sensor or lens?
Does anyone have any real experience about sensor cleaning product
available on the market? Which one is the best and if beginner like
me can do it himself?

Thanks
Milan

Click to expand...

Hi Milanpro,

A likely possible dust source is the trombone action of the lens sucking in the dust as the lens focusses, Sigma Service Technicians blame this as the worst dust source culprit.

My Leica Bridge V-Lux 1 employs a truly internal focussing Lens that does not suffer from this problem, I wish that Sigma would adopt this type of internal focussing in their lenses.

The Sensor itself cannot be the source of any dust or debris as it is a sealed unit. The dust that you have is actually on the surface of the Sensors Glass filter.

It is prudent to regularly inspect the Sensor for dust as dust & debris left on the surface and mixed with shutter lubricant can be very difficult to remove.
I take an f/22 Sky shot at the end of every days shooting.

If you do have some stubborn Sensor dust particles wet them with Sensor Cleaning Fluid and leave to soak for a while before pushing the 'broom.'

You'll soon learn what is the optimum amount of Cleaning Fluid to use. The advice seems to err on using a too small amount of cleaning fluid, I prefer to use a more liberal amount, but without flooding the sensor.

I suggest that you read the CopperHill Sensor Cleaning Tutorial, you will need to do a Google Internet search for this as this Forum has banned the use of this web link.

For 'dry' cleaning, I favour using the Artic Butterfly, for 'wet' cleaning I use Pec Pads wrapped around a suitable cleaning wand along with Eclipse E2 Optic Cleaning Fluid.

I push these tools across the sensor surface, rather than the recommended way of dragging these tools from one side of the sensor to the other, as I find that this method tends to pick up dust & debris from the side walls of the Sensor/Shutter Mechanism cavity.

In particular, the Artic Butterfly brush is prone to picking up shutter lubricant from the walls and smearing the sensor when the brush is dragged across the sensor from one side to the other.

To avoid this, I push the brush or the tools from one side of the sensor to the other, instead of dragging.

Read and digest the CopperHill Tutorial and have a go, sensor cleaning is not rocket science.

Regards.

iMac24

Without doubt, I find that Apples Aperture has the best Spot & Cloning of any software currently on the market. Image straightening, Highlight/Shadow exposure correction, Image Cropping, is also superior to any Adobe product.

On my Apple imac, I also use SPP, Lightroom 2.4, Raw PhotoStudio(German), Noise Ninja, DXO Optics Pro, DXO Film Pack, and PTLens,

I wish that I had a DXO SD14 Module so that I could take advantage of Architectural Straightening feature (almost the equal of any shift Lens), sadly, DXO do not support Sigma cameras.

iMac24

Thanks for the suggestion. When I went to the site, I didn't find system requirements listed. I went to their forum to see if that topic had come up, but found the place riddled with pornographic-oriented messages. It's probably a good program, but I think I'll look at other options.

I've been doing a little playing around with other programs, and one that looks interesting is Corel's Paint Shop Pro Photo X2. The "ultimate" version is on sale til tomorrow for $59.99 (regularly $99.99). I've been playing with their clone and blemish removal tools in the trial version, and they seem to work rather well for removing dust spots, plus the current version of the software is well within my current hardware's ability to run.

sounds good... there are a couple editing features that it's nice to have (and are not in SPPx) ... remove dust spots or blemishes (I call it blobbing them out LOL), crop, straighten horizons and buildings that are a tad crooked etc

For example, I'm editing/processing some DP2 photos at the moment from the Folklife Festival and there are a few I might crop slightly... to get rid of audience arms, fencing near the stage, big black sound amplifiers and/or speakers in the stage foreground, etc. First though I'll put the photos up on flickr upcropped.

Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann

jrtrent said:

Thanks for the suggestion. When I went to the site, I didn't find
system requirements listed. I went to their forum to see if that
topic had come up, but found the place riddled with
pornographic-oriented messages. It's probably a good program, but I
think I'll look at other options.

Click to expand...

System requirements are such that as this is Open Source software - you will find it works fine. Don't judge an excellent programme by comments on forums. Look elsewhere if you will but you are missing a superb offering for what you require. it will cost you nothing to try.

--
Zone8

The photograph isolates and perpetuates a moment of time: an important and revealing moment, or an unimportant and meaningless one, depending upon the photographer's understanding of his subject and mastery of his process. -Edward Weston
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS

I recently cleaned the sensor on of my three SD14's and found the job to take less than 5 minutes. I did quiet a lot of research and this is what Nikon, Cannon etc. do when they clean a camera. Sigma has a special factory vacuum, but that is not available to the public. The following process is used by camera shops to clean Sigma cameras in lieu of the vacuum. Among the professionals I found that they avoided brushes and blowers like the plague.

Here is what I used: Sigma AC/power converter - Eclipse Optic Cleaning Solution -
Type 2 Sensor Swab - VisibleDust Sensor Loupe - Pec * Pad.

This is what I did: Followed the cleaning procedure found in the SD14 manual starting on Pg 109. Once I removed the Dust Protector I placed it on a clean Pec * Pad. Placing the Loupe over the Lens mount, I turned on the light and observed the specs of dust clearly. Opening a sealed Sensor Swab, I placed 2 drops of Eclipse Optic Cleanin Solution on the pad. I then swept one side across the sensor one time, flipped the pad over to the clean side and made a second pass. The pad is then discarded. Again I observed the sensor with the Loupe and found it to be pristine. Replaced the Dust Shield, the Lens Mount Cover and turned the camera off. Between the instructions in the SD14 manual and the instructions on the Sensor Swab box, the project was quiet doable.