Which lens is sharper?

Actually, the two primes he mentions are also sharper than any of the
zooms you mentioned. So, there's three things the primes have over
the zooms, edge to edge sharpness, center sharpness and distortion.
I have the 135, and I haven't seen anything longer than 50mm that
exceeds it in sharpness. Some really love the wider L lenses,
though, and that might make it easier for you to do panos.
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart
--

--
So would this prime be my best bet without spending a fortune?

http://www.thecamerastore.com/products/catalog/telephoto-lenses/canon-ef-300-mm-f40l-usm
Why are you looking at long teles for panos? Wouldn't you be better
served by getting a wide lens that covers as much ground in a single
frame, i.e. as wide a field of view as possible without sacrificing
image quality?
Like this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/162614-USA/Canon_2512A002_Wide_Angle_EF_35mm.html
or this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/12092-USA/Canon_2543A004AA_Wide_Angle_Tilt_Shift.html
or this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/590449-USA/Canon_2750B002_EF_24mm_f_1_4L_II.html

Why are you looking at lenses that have such a narrow field of view?

--
--

Because I am wanting to produce large prints at a very high quality. Pano's are shot vertically, not horizontally, so wide angle lenses are pointless.

I'm currently using a Canon EF-S 17-55 mm F2.8 IS USM on my 50D, but even at 100% crop a pano like the one I shot above can only produce a 23" wide image at 350dpi.

I want/need to produce images for print up to 6-8' wide at 350dpi.
 
Actually, the two primes he mentions are also sharper than any of the
zooms you mentioned. So, there's three things the primes have over
the zooms, edge to edge sharpness, center sharpness and distortion.
I have the 135, and I haven't seen anything longer than 50mm that
exceeds it in sharpness. Some really love the wider L lenses,
though, and that might make it easier for you to do panos.
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart
--

--
So would this prime be my best bet without spending a fortune?

http://www.thecamerastore.com/products/catalog/telephoto-lenses/canon-ef-300-mm-f40l-usm
Why are you looking at long teles for panos? Wouldn't you be better
served by getting a wide lens that covers as much ground in a single
frame, i.e. as wide a field of view as possible without sacrificing
image quality?
Like this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/162614-USA/Canon_2512A002_Wide_Angle_EF_35mm.html
or this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/12092-USA/Canon_2543A004AA_Wide_Angle_Tilt_Shift.html
or this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/590449-USA/Canon_2750B002_EF_24mm_f_1_4L_II.html

Why are you looking at lenses that have such a narrow field of view?

--
--

Because I am wanting to produce large prints at a very high quality.
Pano's are shot vertically, not horizontally, so wide angle lenses
are pointless.
The field of view is 360deg. A wide lens will give you a wider FOV vertically, too.
You'd better read this:
http://www.panoguide.com/

All they talk about is shooting with a wide angle, from an 8mm fish to 35mm wides.

And this is where I bow out of this discussion, because I've never shot panos, all I was really looking at was the discussion of what lenses were sharper. That, I can comment on, since I have 4 of the lenses in discussion.
I'm currently using a Canon EF-S 17-55 mm F2.8 IS USM on my 50D, but
even at 100% crop a pano like the one I shot above can only produce a
23" wide image at 350dpi.
You need to stitch, I think, if you want to get wider than that. I can print at 30X40 at 300 dpi from my 5D with a 16-35, but that's not a panorama.
I want/need to produce images for print up to 6-8' wide at 350dpi.
You definitely have to stitch to produce images that wide.
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart
 
a really good pano head for you tripod will cost near as much as the
lens
--
--

Really? I recently did this pano, would you consider it fairly good?

Did you just crop that from a larger image, basically just changing the aspect ratio from 3:2 to 16:9? Or did you take several images and stitch them?
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart
 
Re> Pretty straight forward question?

The 100-400 is noticable sharper at 300-400mm than the other four,
when the images are enlarged.
Not sure about that. If you take the same image with the 70-200 f4L, compare a crop to an uncropped version of the same scene from the 100-400, I think the 70-200 might show better. Now, if you put a telextender on the 70-200 f2.8L, and compare it to the 100-400 at 400mm, the 100-400 comes out ahead.
Thelenses with Image Stabilization yield sharper pictures, handheld,
at some shutter speeds, but on a tripod are not sharper.

The f4 lenses are not at all sharp at f2.8
Heheheh.
A 2.8 lens, wide open, is probably hsarper in low light than a non-IS
f4 lens at a slower shutter speed.
Only hand held. The 70-200 f2.8L IS is less sharp, wide open, than the 70-200 f4L, non IS or IS version, is also wide open. The f2.8 isn't quite as sharp as the f4, even at f4. At f5.6, it catches up to the IS f4, from what I've seen.
Less depth of field at f2.8 means you might have a sharper picture
with an f4 lens on a tripod. Of course, you could set the f2.8 lens
at f4 and use a tripod.
All things being equal, the f4 is sharper on a tripod than the f2.8 is, also on a tripod.
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart
 
The 70-200 f/4 IS is in a different league and is arguably the
sharpest lens canon makes. If not it is a just matter of splitting
hairs with anyone's choice of something sharper.
Sharpest zoom...not sharpest lens.
It is a great one, though, my wife's f4 IS is noticeably sharper than
my f2.8 IS, that's for sure!
--
Skip M
Like I said, splitting hairs. My 70-200 f/4 IS was indistinguishable from a friends very sharp 135 f/2L both at f/4 on both our cameras (5D) and my 5D2.
--
Blake in Vancouver
http://flickr.com/photos/28305360@N00/

Panasonic Stuff, Canon Stuff. Mac Stuff & annoying PC & Windows Immobile PDA POS.
 
a really good pano head for you tripod will cost near as much as the
lens
--
--

Really? I recently did this pano, would you consider it fairly good?

Did you just crop that from a larger image, basically just changing
the aspect ratio from 3:2 to 16:9? Or did you take several images
and stitch them?
--
--
Of course not, that was 7 images.

Bottom line is I need a zoom lens that can produce a very sharp image so I can reproduce very large pano prints.

Thanks for all the imput.
 
--
Out of curiousity, how would this Sigma lens compare to any of the
lenses above.
Before I bought my 100-400 I tested the Sigma 120-400. There is no comparison. The Sigma is nowhere near as sharp and is veiled like it has cellophane stretched over it. Check out LensRental for their view on Sigma. A real eye opener.
--
Blake in Vancouver
http://flickr.com/photos/28305360@N00/

Panasonic Stuff, Canon Stuff. Mac Stuff & annoying PC & Windows Immobile PDA POS.
 
Ok, now here's my opportunity to learn. What is it about zooms that
make them appeal to you for shooting panos? Everything I've read on
the subject is about primes, not zooms. That, added to the idea that
primes are sharper, on the whole, than equivalent zooms, makes me
curious.
--
--

Basically what I have learned and read about creating 'panos' is this.

Shoot vertically, this eliminates lens distortion. So with my 50D and my Canon EF-S 17-55 mm F2.8 IS USM lens I get 4752 pixels of maximum resolution vertically which equals to 15.8" vertical print at 300dpi. This is the minimum dpi you want to go without losing exceptional quality in print.

So using the city pano I posted above, the 'maximum' vertical print I would be able to create is 15.6"

Because I cannot get any closer to the subject matter, my 55mm maximum zoom is not enough to capture enough data to create a larger image.

But if I had lets say a 300mm prime lens, I could stack my vertical images 3 high for a total of 14256 pixels or 47" of vertical. But in reality that couldn't happen because you would need some overlap in order to correctly stitch them. So lets use 11880 pixels or basically 2.5x maximum vertical. That would give me 39" of vertical print at 300dpi.

So now that we have achieved our vertical requirements, we can start stitching width wise to create our desired pano.

Does this make sense to you?
 
Ok, now here's my opportunity to learn. What is it about zooms that
make them appeal to you for shooting panos? Everything I've read on
the subject is about primes, not zooms. That, added to the idea that
primes are sharper, on the whole, than equivalent zooms, makes me
curious.
--
--

Basically what I have learned and read about creating 'panos' is this.

Shoot vertically, this eliminates lens distortion. So with my 50D and
my Canon EF-S 17-55 mm F2.8 IS USM lens I get 4752 pixels of maximum
resolution vertically which equals to 15.8" vertical print at 300dpi.
This is the minimum dpi you want to go without losing exceptional
quality in print.

So using the city pano I posted above, the 'maximum' vertical print I
would be able to create is 15.6"

Because I cannot get any closer to the subject matter, my 55mm
maximum zoom is not enough to capture enough data to create a larger
image.

But if I had lets say a 300mm prime lens, I could stack my vertical
images 3 high for a total of 14256 pixels or 47" of vertical. But in
reality that couldn't happen because you would need some overlap in
order to correctly stitch them. So lets use 11880 pixels or
basically 2.5x maximum vertical. That would give me 39" of vertical
print at 300dpi.

So now that we have achieved our vertical requirements, we can start
stitching width wise to create our desired pano.

Does this make sense to you?
Sorta. But that makes for an awful lot of panels stitched together. And a 6x8 foot pano, does it really have to be 300 dpi? That's an awful lot of resolution, I'd think that 100 dpi would be sufficient, 300 would be necessary if you have a viewing distance of a couple of feet away, that's the normal acceptable printing res of an 8x10 print. From a distance needed to effectively view the 6x8 entirety, 100 dpi might even be overkill, unless you were mounting it in a very constricted area, and your viewers can't get very far away from the image.
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart
 
Ok, now here's my opportunity to learn. What is it about zooms that
make them appeal to you for shooting panos? Everything I've read on
the subject is about primes, not zooms. That, added to the idea that
primes are sharper, on the whole, than equivalent zooms, makes me
curious.
--
--

Basically what I have learned and read about creating 'panos' is this.

Shoot vertically, this eliminates lens distortion. So with my 50D and
my Canon EF-S 17-55 mm F2.8 IS USM lens I get 4752 pixels of maximum
resolution vertically which equals to 15.8" vertical print at 300dpi.
This is the minimum dpi you want to go without losing exceptional
quality in print.

So using the city pano I posted above, the 'maximum' vertical print I
would be able to create is 15.6"

Because I cannot get any closer to the subject matter, my 55mm
maximum zoom is not enough to capture enough data to create a larger
image.

But if I had lets say a 300mm prime lens, I could stack my vertical
images 3 high for a total of 14256 pixels or 47" of vertical. But in
reality that couldn't happen because you would need some overlap in
order to correctly stitch them. So lets use 11880 pixels or
basically 2.5x maximum vertical. That would give me 39" of vertical
print at 300dpi.

So now that we have achieved our vertical requirements, we can start
stitching width wise to create our desired pano.

Does this make sense to you?
Sorta. But that makes for an awful lot of panels stitched together.
And a 6x8 foot pano, does it really have to be 300 dpi? That's an
awful lot of resolution, I'd think that 100 dpi would be sufficient,
300 would be necessary if you have a viewing distance of a couple of
feet away, that's the normal acceptable printing res of an 8x10
print. From a distance needed to effectively view the 6x8 entirety,
100 dpi might even be overkill, unless you were mounting it in a very
constricted area, and your viewers can't get very far away from the
image.
--
--

Nobody said it was simple...LOL

150dpi is the bare minimum, but 300dpi is preferred.
 
Think about this a bit. One reason for shooting panos instead of single shots is that the resulting stitch has much higher resolution - and for this reason the supposed advantage of primes (which is less than you might think) becomes even less important with panos.

I shoot panos and I am unaware of any general sentiment that primes are to be preferred. There are arguments both ways, but great panos can be done with either.

Dan
Ok, now here's my opportunity to learn. What is it about zooms that
make them appeal to you for shooting panos? Everything I've read on
the subject is about primes, not zooms. That, added to the idea that
primes are sharper, on the whole, than equivalent zooms, makes me
curious.
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart
--
---
G Dan Mitchell - SF Bay Area, California, USA
Blog & Gallery: http://www.gdanmitchell.com/
IM: gdanmitchell

Gear List: Cup, spoon, chewing gum, old shoe laces, spare change, eyeballs, bag of nuts.
 
Shoot vertically, this eliminates lens distortion. So with my 50D and
my Canon EF-S 17-55 mm F2.8 IS USM lens I get 4752 pixels of maximum
resolution vertically which equals to 15.8" vertical print at 300dpi.
This is the minimum dpi you want to go without losing exceptional
quality in print.
Shoot vertically in some cases, but not to "eliminate distortion." The same amount of distortion is there in a photograph whether you shoot it vertically or horizontally, and if this is an issue you can remove it in post.

Shoot vertically if you want to make a larger photograph from a single horizontal row of photos - but be aware that if you shoot a current FF body and do this that you probably cannot afford to print a very wide pano at the largest size possible and you almost certainly cannot afford to mount, mat, and frame it. A 4:1 ratio pano shot with vertical images on a 5D II could easily be 10 feet wide. Just sayin'...

In many cases you could work with a smaller number of horizontal images and still get a 4:1 pano that is perhaps 6-8 feet wide with the same quality.

Dan

--
---
G Dan Mitchell - SF Bay Area, California, USA
Blog & Gallery: http://www.gdanmitchell.com/
IM: gdanmitchell

Gear List: Cup, spoon, chewing gum, old shoe laces, spare change, eyeballs, bag of nuts.
 
Didn't read the other posts, but I'd go with the 70-200L f4 IS or the 100-400L depending on with focal length you need. The 70-200 is much smaller. Both are excellent lenses. get the IS.

Kent
 
Shoot vertically, this eliminates lens distortion. So with my 50D and
my Canon EF-S 17-55 mm F2.8 IS USM lens I get 4752 pixels of maximum
resolution vertically which equals to 15.8" vertical print at 300dpi.
This is the minimum dpi you want to go without losing exceptional
quality in print.
Shoot vertically in some cases, but not to "eliminate distortion."
The same amount of distortion is there in a photograph whether you
shoot it vertically or horizontally, and if this is an issue you can
remove it in post.

Shoot vertically if you want to make a larger photograph from a
single horizontal row of photos - but be aware that if you shoot a
current FF body and do this that you probably cannot afford to print
a very wide pano at the largest size possible and you almost
certainly cannot afford to mount, mat, and frame it. A 4:1 ratio pano
shot with vertical images on a 5D II could easily be 10 feet wide.
Just sayin'...

In many cases you could work with a smaller number of horizontal
images and still get a 4:1 pano that is perhaps 6-8 feet wide with
the same quality.

Dan
--

Shooting horizontally makes zero sense regardless if distortion is no different.

LOL, I'm not sure what costs have to do with this subject, but if you need to know a 6'x3' pano printed using an Oce Lightjet Printer and dry mounted on a polished aluminum frame with an acrylic backing is $500 Canadian.

I already stated how many inches can be had at max resolution of a 50D camera printing at 300dpi.

So I'm not sure why you commented about a 5DII???
 
Think about this a bit. One reason for shooting panos instead of
single shots is that the resulting stitch has much higher resolution
  • and for this reason the supposed advantage of primes (which is less
than you might think) becomes even less important with panos.
300 dpi is 300 dpi. And there is a distinct difference between my 135 f2 and 70-200 f2.8L IS, believe me. But, overall, what you say is what I get. It seems to be more about apparent pixel/dot density, and not actual resolution.
I shoot panos and I am unaware of any general sentiment that primes
are to be preferred. There are arguments both ways, but great panos
can be done with either.

Dan
Well, most of what I've read by people who shoot them involve using the lenses you already have, so zoom vs prime is probably, indeed, moot.
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart
 
Shoot vertically, this eliminates lens distortion. So with my 50D and
my Canon EF-S 17-55 mm F2.8 IS USM lens I get 4752 pixels of maximum
resolution vertically which equals to 15.8" vertical print at 300dpi.
This is the minimum dpi you want to go without losing exceptional
quality in print.
Shoot vertically in some cases, but not to "eliminate distortion."
The same amount of distortion is there in a photograph whether you
shoot it vertically or horizontally, and if this is an issue you can
remove it in post.

Shoot vertically if you want to make a larger photograph from a
single horizontal row of photos - but be aware that if you shoot a
current FF body and do this that you probably cannot afford to print
a very wide pano at the largest size possible and you almost
certainly cannot afford to mount, mat, and frame it. A 4:1 ratio pano
shot with vertical images on a 5D II could easily be 10 feet wide.
Just sayin'...

In many cases you could work with a smaller number of horizontal
images and still get a 4:1 pano that is perhaps 6-8 feet wide with
the same quality.

Dan
--

Shooting horizontally makes zero sense regardless if distortion is no
different.

LOL, I'm not sure what costs have to do with this subject, but if you
need to know a 6'x3' pano printed using an Oce Lightjet Printer and
dry mounted on a polished aluminum frame with an acrylic backing is
$500 Canadian.

I already stated how many inches can be had at max resolution of a
50D camera printing at 300dpi.

So I'm not sure why you commented about a 5DII???
Probably pixel density. It's similar between the two cameras.
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart
 
Having both the 70-200F4LIS & 100-400IS I would still go with the 100-400 for all round sharpness.

While the 70-200 is a sharp lens it falls down quite noticeably around the minimum focus distance while the 100-400 remains very sharp. If I don't have a macro lens with me I'll just use an extension tube on the 100-400.
Re> Pretty straight forward question?

The 100-400 is noticable sharper at 300-400mm than the other four,
when the images are enlarged.
Not sure about that. If you take the same image with the 70-200 f4L,
compare a crop to an uncropped version of the same scene from the
100-400, I think the 70-200 might show better. Now, if you put a
telextender on the 70-200 f2.8L, and compare it to the 100-400 at
400mm, the 100-400 comes out ahead.
Thelenses with Image Stabilization yield sharper pictures, handheld,
at some shutter speeds, but on a tripod are not sharper.

The f4 lenses are not at all sharp at f2.8
Heheheh.
A 2.8 lens, wide open, is probably hsarper in low light than a non-IS
f4 lens at a slower shutter speed.
Only hand held. The 70-200 f2.8L IS is less sharp, wide open, than
the 70-200 f4L, non IS or IS version, is also wide open. The f2.8
isn't quite as sharp as the f4, even at f4. At f5.6, it catches up
to the IS f4, from what I've seen.
Less depth of field at f2.8 means you might have a sharper picture
with an f4 lens on a tripod. Of course, you could set the f2.8 lens
at f4 and use a tripod.
All things being equal, the f4 is sharper on a tripod than the f2.8
is, also on a tripod.
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart
--

 

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