Canon's announced firmware update

Hi,

well, this is my first thread, maybe even my first post (I have bad memory.).

Now that that's settled,

I was wondering whether the announced ability for the Canon's full frame budget flagship (what a category!) is due to Canon's desire to bring out a great feature to their customers, or is it maybe, perhaps, just a thought, don't bash me it's my first post , because the K7 has an announced aperture-control-while-shooting feature, which I assume the 5D MarkII doesn't currently have.

So, thoughts? Am I imagining things?

I'm not bashing or anything, just wondering, because the firmware announcement just happened to be set a few days after the K7 preview.

Thanks.
--
SeriousWorm @ FER Zagreb

I can totally see this, I feel bad for Canon users as they were not getting whatever the tools they paid were capable of doing....if Pentax never came out with K-7, Canon would have never never done this firware update.

And that's exactly why I dislike Canon a lot. Almost disgusting.

regen1005 said:

I can totally see this, I feel bad for Canon users as they were not
getting whatever the tools they paid were capable of doing....if
Pentax never came out with K-7, Canon would have never never done
this firware update.

Click to expand...

I think you give Pentax far too much credit. This firmware has probably been in the works for a while now and I highly doubt Pentax has any real influence on Canon.

regen1005 said:

And that's exactly why I dislike Canon a lot. Almost disgusting.

Click to expand...

They have sufficiently one-upped the k-7's video feature and you think it's disgusting because they're bringing out new features. You just sound irrational and like a fanboy.

--
http://picasaweb.google.com/chrswggl

regen1005 said:

I can totally see this, I feel bad for Canon users as they were not
getting whatever the tools they paid were capable of doing....if
Pentax never came out with K-7, Canon would have never never done
this firware update.

Click to expand...

Exactly. This is the virtue of competition. I would even venture to say that it's in the firmware all along, only crippled. All that the update did was remove the crippling codes.

This is not conspiracy theory. You only have to realise that the hardware must be put into the camera at the time of manufacture to enable the new firmware to operate the "new" capability to realise that the feature must have been there already.

They were probably originally thinking of making it a new feature of the Mark III.

regen1005 said:

And that's exactly why I dislike Canon a lot. Almost disgusting.

Click to expand...

That Pentax give a sh!t on K10 users – surely it is possible to put multi-lens fine AF adjustment via firmware update. It will not influence anyhow current and prospective sales. That feature even can be standard across all range including most budget models without any ill-effect (well, only perhaps some butthurt for those who “must have the best of the best”)

It should be enough to force Pentax to keep single AF enabled during video capture. A recent post by JohnC indicates they might disable it. Not a big issue for me personally, as I don't shoot video (even though I have a camcorder). But it kinda dampens the excitement about the product. Sort of like how my friends felt about the D90 not having any AF during video capture.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=31950610

There was a large petition going around asking just for what this firmware promises. So I don't think the K-7 can take all the credit for this, though it probably did play a part in Canon's decision to do it.

According to the folks in the Canon forum, this is the first time that Canon has added new features in a firmware update. Things are definitely heating up - I wonder how Nikon and Pentax will respond.

Serious Worm said:

Hi,

well, this is my first thread, maybe even my first post (I have bad
memory.).

Now that that's settled,

I was wondering whether the announced ability for the Canon's full
frame budget flagship (what a category!) is due to Canon's desire to
bring out a great feature to their customers, or is it maybe,
perhaps, just a thought, don't bash me it's my first post , because
the K7 has an announced aperture-control-while-shooting feature,
which I assume the 5D MarkII doesn't currently have.

So, thoughts? Am I imagining things?
I'm not bashing or anything, just wondering, because the firmware
announcement just happened to be set a few days after the K7
preview.

Thanks.
--
SeriousWorm @ FER Zagreb

Click to expand...

photogerald said:

There was a large petition going around asking just for what this
firmware promises. So I don't think the K-7 can take all the credit
for this, though it probably did play a part in Canon's decision to
do it.

According to the folks in the Canon forum, this is the first time
that Canon has added new features in a firmware update. Things are
definitely heating up - I wonder how Nikon and Pentax will respond.

Click to expand...

Can0n can't have just decided on this a week ago, then developed and tested those features in so short a time. They must have been working on it for a while. If anything, the Panasonic GH1 is the one that is setting the standard for video. But we can't discount the effect of the K-7 announcement either. It could have at least intensified the need for this update.

Speaking of the GH1, the fact that Panasonic had to make a different version of the G1 just to add the video features, kinda puts into perspective the amount of effort needed to get video to work properly on a DSLR. Even Live View is taking several generations to be completely useful.

I say Canon always had the ability to do what they've just added to the firmware, they just wanted to release it on the next camera if the competition would hold off on releasing the same thing... the competition didn't so they brought it out earlier the wanted
--
Mike from Canada

'I like to think so far outside the box that it would require a telephoto lens just to see the box!' ~ 'My Quote '



http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?sort_order=views%20DESC&first_this_page=0&page_limit=180&&emailsearch=mighty_mike88%40hotmail.com&thumbnails=

why don't you make your 2nd post over in the Canon forums. I don't think anyone has determined if the K-7 will have this in the final firmware.

Please don't bother responding to me just let this thread go where it belongs.

yes it will influence sales for those who own a K10D and don't care to upgrade, Pentax has as a decent business practice given its customers the AF adjustment as one potential reason to buy their latest product... they don't want people to be happy with the camera they currently own when they bring out a new camera, if that were the case sales would stall and Pentax would be no longer around faster then you can say LBA. any smart company will leave stuff out to create an upgrade path... sure its annoying to the customers but it keeps the sales going... why do you think kit lenses aren't made as good as some of the best zooms and primes... its so people will buy more when they've out grown the kit lens... same reasoning for not providing firmware updates to discontinued models.
--
Mike from Canada

'I like to think so far outside the box that it would require a telephoto lens just to see the box!' ~ 'My Quote '



http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?sort_order=views%20DESC&first_this_page=0&page_limit=180&&emailsearch=mighty_mike88%40hotmail.com&thumbnails=

From one hand small group of those who “must” “upgrade” does not matter what will upgrade regardless anything. Plenty excuses could be found - from K10 to K20 because of sensor/LV; from K20 to K7 because of body/movie and so on. Majority, however, cannot justify spending on bodies (because of luck of money or LBA indulging) that frequently and skipping 1,2 or even 3 “upgrades” – recently been post “from DS to D7”. There are few if any who sitting on the fence and for whom one particular feature like multi-lens fine AF tuning will be deal breaker. Not for me anyway despite the fact that I like it a lot. Such customer relationship could be “explained” from “business point of view”, but in reality it sux and rotten away customer loyalty resulting in sales declining.

Cheers

Firmware in the works for awhile now.... that directly comes out after the competition is announced - adressing exactly what Canon users were screaming about (aka feature culling). I think it is obvious that the K-7 just cost Canon some money (as in they were forced to include a featured they had culled). Pretty sad and obvious.

-Mouse

chrswggl said:

regen1005 said:

I can totally see this, I feel bad for Canon users as they were not
getting whatever the tools they paid were capable of doing....if
Pentax never came out with K-7, Canon would have never never done
this firware update.

Click to expand...

I think you give Pentax far too much credit. This firmware has
probably been in the works for a while now and I highly doubt Pentax
has any real influence on Canon.

chrswggl said:

And that's exactly why I dislike Canon a lot. Almost disgusting.

Click to expand...

They have sufficiently one-upped the k-7's video feature and you
think it's disgusting because they're bringing out new features. You
just sound irrational and like a fanboy.

--
http://picasaweb.google.com/chrswggl

Click to expand...

--
Hardly education
All them books I didn't read
They just sat there on my shelf
Looking much smarter than me
The Mouse Gallery
http://s214.photobucket.com/albums/cc130/AMMouse/Pentax%20K100D%20Super/

Worm

I think you are looking at the most obvious case of feature culling in a DSLR to date. What we know for sure about this firmware... 1. It comes directly after the competition is announced (and surpasses Canon's FF DSLR in terms of a new feature). 2. This feature was possible prior to the competition being announced (and clearly disabled in the firmware prior to release). 3. This was a feature Canon was attempting to save until their next release in order to force users to either upgrade or buy a second body to get this feature - I'd almost gurantee it was meant for the next enthusiast body. 4. Canon is literally holding out on their consumers in order to milk them for more money. 5. Canon 5D MkII users should be thanking Pentax for competing with their seemingly crooked company. 6. Be glad you shoot Pentax.

-Mouse

Serious Worm said:

Hi,

well, this is my first thread, maybe even my first post (I have bad
memory.).

Now that that's settled,

I was wondering whether the announced ability for the Canon's full
frame budget flagship (what a category!) is due to Canon's desire to
bring out a great feature to their customers, or is it maybe,
perhaps, just a thought, don't bash me it's my first post , because
the K7 has an announced aperture-control-while-shooting feature,
which I assume the 5D MarkII doesn't currently have.

So, thoughts? Am I imagining things?
I'm not bashing or anything, just wondering, because the firmware
announcement just happened to be set a few days after the K7
preview.

Thanks.
--
SeriousWorm @ FER Zagreb

Click to expand...

--
Hardly education
All them books I didn't read
They just sat there on my shelf
Looking much smarter than me
The Mouse Gallery
http://s214.photobucket.com/albums/cc130/AMMouse/Pentax%20K100D%20Super/

Incredible they don't realize Canon is sticking it to them even as they praise their firmware upgrade. Literally, a company just got caught milking features in their multi-thousand dollar FF DSLR... incredible when a company is so big they literally can afford to lose a few thousand customers who care about ethics.

-Mouse

photogerald said:

According to the folks in the Canon forum, this is the first time
that Canon has added new features in a firmware update. Things are
definitely heating up - I wonder how Nikon and Pentax will respond.

Serious Worm said:

Hi,

well, this is my first thread, maybe even my first post (I have bad
memory.).

Now that that's settled,

I was wondering whether the announced ability for the Canon's full
frame budget flagship (what a category!) is due to Canon's desire to
bring out a great feature to their customers, or is it maybe,
perhaps, just a thought, don't bash me it's my first post , because
the K7 has an announced aperture-control-while-shooting feature,
which I assume the 5D MarkII doesn't currently have.

So, thoughts? Am I imagining things?
I'm not bashing or anything, just wondering, because the firmware
announcement just happened to be set a few days after the K7
preview.

Thanks.
--
SeriousWorm @ FER Zagreb

Click to expand...

--

Click to expand...

--
Hardly education
All them books I didn't read
They just sat there on my shelf
Looking much smarter than me
The Mouse Gallery
http://s214.photobucket.com/albums/cc130/AMMouse/Pentax%20K100D%20Super/

jackbw said:

photogerald said:

There was a large petition going around asking just for what this
firmware promises. So I don't think the K-7 can take all the credit
for this, though it probably did play a part in Canon's decision to
do it.

According to the folks in the Canon forum, this is the first time
that Canon has added new features in a firmware update. Things are
definitely heating up - I wonder how Nikon and Pentax will respond.

Click to expand...

Can0n can't have just decided on this a week ago, then developed and
tested those features in so short a time. They must have been
working on it for a while. If anything, the Panasonic GH1 is the one
that is setting the standard for video. But we can't discount the
effect of the K-7 announcement either. It could have at least
intensified the need for this update.

Click to expand...

Exactly... these features were likely completed months ago - and disabled via firmware.

jackbw said:

Speaking of the GH1, the fact that Panasonic had to make a different
version of the G1 just to add the video features, kinda puts into
perspective the amount of effort needed to get video to work properly
on a DSLR. Even Live View is taking several generations to be
completely useful.

Click to expand...

--
Hardly education
All them books I didn't read
They just sat there on my shelf
Looking much smarter than me
The Mouse Gallery
http://s214.photobucket.com/albums/cc130/AMMouse/Pentax%20K100D%20Super/

Well i've seen a number of upgrade cycles in digital and those who skip seem to be the minority... however i do envy them for feeling content with their equipment and not complaining about not having features in new equipment... would AF-Adjustment be reason enough for you to upgrade? obviously not or else you'd be working hard to save enough money to buy the K20D or K-7 instead of spending money on lenses... did i need AF adjustment? no except on 1 lens which i use over 50% of the time so i guess thats a yes...

so which lenses do you have and how badly do they need to be adjusted? Why can't you send them in for servicing or back to where you bought them on warranty or even sell them to someone with a K20D and pick up another that might work better if you are unwilling/unable to upgrade?

so yes it sucks that a company creates an upgrade path but if it didn't then they'd lose all new sales not just a few... who would buy a K10D with slightly upgraded firmware today, next year or even a few years from now... you can't as a business stay stagnant just because a few of your customers can't afford the next model. and you can't give the previous model owners all or some of the perks of the newest model because they can't afford the new model... however being business minded perhaps paying for a firmware upgrade that provides some of the perks of a new model without having to upgrade might be a solution.
--
Mike from Canada

'I like to think so far outside the box that it would require a telephoto lens just to see the box!' ~ 'My Quote '



http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?sort_order=views%20DESC&first_this_page=0&page_limit=180&&emailsearch=mighty_mike88%40hotmail.com&thumbnails=

Well lets stop and think a little... all companies leave out features they are capable of to create an upgrade path... Pentax included
--
Mike from Canada

'I like to think so far outside the box that it would require a telephoto lens just to see the box!' ~ 'My Quote '



http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?sort_order=views%20DESC&first_this_page=0&page_limit=180&&emailsearch=mighty_mike88%40hotmail.com&thumbnails=

MightyMike said:

Well i've seen a number of upgrade cycles in digital and those who
skip seem to be the minority... however i do envy them for feeling
content with their equipment and not complaining about not having
features in new equipment... would AF-Adjustment be reason enough for
you to upgrade?

Click to expand...

Despite I like a lot to have it, it is definitely not enough for me to upgrade

MightyMike said:

obviously not or else you'd be working hard to save
enough money to buy the K20D or K-7 instead of spending money on
lenses...

Click to expand...

As I can see a lens is investment while body just unwanted but unavoidable waste

MightyMike said:

did i need AF adjustment? no except on 1 lens which i use
over 50% of the time so i guess thats a yes...

so which lenses do you have and how badly do they need to be
adjusted? Why can't you send them in for servicing or back to where
you bought them on warranty or even sell them to someone with a K20D
and pick up another that might work better if you are
unwilling/unable to upgrade?

Click to expand...

OMG – way too cumbersome and time consuming. I have KatEyz instead

MightyMike said:

so yes it sucks that a company creates an upgrade path but if it
didn't then they'd lose all new sales not just a few... who would buy
a K10D with slightly upgraded firmware today, next year or even a few
years from now... you can't as a business stay stagnant just because
a few of your customers can't afford the next model. and you can't
give the previous model owners all or some of the perks of the newest
model because they can't afford the new model...

Click to expand...

No-one been saying do not do new models and stop R&D. For those who new on market there is no choice. But if say they upgrade firmware to squeeze as much as possible from hardware, then second-hand would be holding prices better and therefore those who like to upgrade, but cannot justify could sell their say K10 and get K20 instead. But when prices on previous model dropping as brick once new one released no-one cares to resell. Thus manufacture miss sell opportunity. Such POV also exists and it is very debatable what it right and what is wrong. From another hand whole mentality of “Y” generation (obviously main segment in gadget market) is evolve around single-use items and manufactures only happy to produce more and more. So we never will new the truth.

MightyMike said:

however being
business minded perhaps paying for a firmware upgrade that provides
some of the perks of a new model without having to upgrade might be a
solution.

Click to expand...

I would pay reasonable price for such firmware update in a blink of an eye.

Cheers

Pentax are not much better than canon in respect to video implementation. In fact the only advantage would have been AV mode for Pentax, and possibly AF for Canon.

Panny are the real culprits here. Presenting a camera that is superior in video in every way compared to Canon.

I do think Pentax should follow suit and also release capabilities for full manual, I think the 21fps burst mode in the K20D was much the same and had full manual. I have already confronted John C (perhaps a bit harshly) about a petition for AF in video. Perhaps full manual would be nice aswell, but this would be more of bonus maybe. If anything, full manual is less difficult to implement than AF, but there may be a good technical reason why this can not be done.