Pentax K-7.. turning it up a notch...

RedFox88 said:

Didn't the k20d have weather sealing and in-body IS? So remove those
2 things and you get software feature of HDR (though most would
prefer to have control to do it themselves in a computer) and video.
So in the end hardly a change, right? Like I said, 60D will have
video and with more options than T1i as Canon's video oferings mature
with user feedback.

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From a Pentax user's perspective, the K-7 has a combination of small changes that don't make much of a difference in themselves, but when combined into a single package makes a compelling upgrade for many *ist D and K-series users.

Pentax has always had problems with low-light autofocus. This is an area where Canon and Nikon clearly excel. The K-7 supposedly addresses this common complaint.

Pentax also has exceedingly good ergonomics, except for control of ISO and WB, which required multiple button clicks. This was a source of annoyance of some Pentax customers. On Nikons, for example, it was much quicker to control using the button and wheel combination. The K-7 moves these control items to dedicated buttons.

If you combine the HDR and the HD Video capability with the already excellent ergonomics, exposure modes and viewfinder, the K-7 suddenly becomes a fierce competitor to the 50D and the D90.

On a aps-c? If anybody could do that with the same or better iso performance I'd be impressed.

MichelBB said:

with even more megapixels. 20+mp should be enough to kill K-7 sales.
Hurry up Canon, we need 20 mp.

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--
Aaron W.

tycfung said:

Pentax also has exceedingly good ergonomics, except for control of
ISO and WB, which required multiple button clicks.

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Huh? Starting with K10D, ISO change does not require multiple button clicks, it has direct access.

--
Edvinas

Edvinas said:

tycfung said:

Pentax also has exceedingly good ergonomics, except for control of
ISO and WB, which required multiple button clicks.

Click to expand...

Huh? Starting with K10D, ISO change does not require multiple button
clicks, it has direct access.

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Only when configured in Av and Tv mode. You can configure the front or rear wheels in Av and Tv mode to control the ISO. However, if you're in Program or full manual, controlling the ISO must still be performed using the Fn and arrow buttons.

I usually shoot in Av, and have configured my front wheel to be ISO. However, I don't get the same functionality if I'm in P mode, and switch to Av via Hyperprogram.

Even the resolution of the superior Pentax primes can't serve the 20 mpixels on APS-C.

tycfung wrote:
However, if

tycfung said:

you're in Program or full manual, controlling the ISO must still be
performed using the Fn and arrow buttons.

I usually shoot in Av, and have configured my front wheel to be ISO.
However, I don't get the same functionality if I'm in P mode, and
switch to Av via Hyperprogram.

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--

Why. On k10D and K20D (don't know about other models) OK button is ISO button. In P and Manual modes you can press and hold Ok button and by front wheel regulate the ISO. You don't need to go in FN menu.
And by pressing Green button you can return to the Auto ISO.

RedFox88 said:

..and I don't see what any fuss is about. Re-using the same image
sensor (no very high iso's added) slightly bigger viewfinder than
before and 5fps. Canon has had 5fps since the 20D came out in 2004.
It has video, but so will the 60D.

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You dont see it because you rather quite frankly ignored it Electronic leveler, second AF sensor, new metering, in body SR, much smaller, price just $100 more than 50d on day of release so it will go down quicky and others ... just read the specs
--
Fero, London

What is the point of 20mpix? Gains are to small to have it, you just need even better computer with more memory and harddrives ...
--
Fero, London

Dave Luttmann said:

Biggis said:

mailman88 said:

...and its great. It will make Canon better! I love competition...
the consumer wins everytime.

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In what way is it so great?
Or did you mean ".. turning it DOWN a notch..." and by so making
Canon appear better??

Sorry for my ignorance... but I would honestly like to know!
--

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I’d say it’s turning it up a notch! The K7 offers a lot that the 50D
doesn’t. It’s nice having in body stabilization for every lens.
Weather sealing is a huge plus. HD video is a nice addition for
those who enjoy video. In body HDR is a nice addition….as is 5 stop
bracketing as opposed to just 2. 100% viewfinder that bigger and
brighter.

There’s a lot the K7 offers over the 50D.

Click to expand...

Due to inbody IS there are a couple of features which are not seen on any other DSLR

Auto horizon allinement & the ability to recompose the image by shifting the sensor while the camera is tripod mounted.

MichelBB said:

with even more megapixels. 20+mp should be enough to kill K-7 sales.
Hurry up Canon, we need 20 mp.

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Who's "we"?

Don't forget to hug your Canon before you go to bed tonight.

Will lenses themselves become a non-direct limitation for the megapixel war ? The best lenses seem to only just cope with a crop sensor at 15mp at the moment. Lens quality will have to improve alot as well if they are to 'keep up' with the increases in sensor resolution. In fact, I would say the technical limitations of the lenses for APSC, will be the inhibitor of increasing sensor MP, rather than the sensor technology itself.

I 'think' the only way the hasselblads etc with 50MP for example, are only capable of those results because of the sensor size, the limits of squeezing light onto the APSC size sensor will soon be reached / already are reached by the lenses. And who wants to lug around a 4 inch sensor just to get stupidly high MP? Not me :O)
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Spence
50D, Canon 17-55mm, Sigma 105mm, Helios 58mm F2

RedFox88 said:

..and I don't see what any fuss is about. Re-using the same image
sensor

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Wrong, very wrong. In mega pixels, it's the same, but the output has changed and it runs cooler. It is a new design using the same basic frame. Read Pentax spec sheet on this.

wll

spence105 said:

Will lenses themselves become a non-direct limitation for the
megapixel war ? The best lenses seem to only just cope with a crop
sensor at 15mp at the moment. Lens quality will have to improve alot
as well if they are to 'keep up' with the increases in sensor
resolution. In fact, I would say the technical limitations of the
lenses for APSC, will be the inhibitor of increasing sensor MP,
rather than the sensor technology itself.

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In terms of a final, printed image, it's better to have lots and lots of MP's so that the AA filter can be removed without the fear of aliasing and moiré. At 100 % view the image will be soft, but the final output will be sharper and more detailed. There will be diminishing returns, for sure, but returns nonetheless. It's only a good thing if a sensor "outresolves" a lens (although there is no such thing as "outresolving" within an optical system), that way you'll get the most out of what the lens delivers. This is ignoring storage and processing issues, of course.

mailman88 said:

...and its great. It will make Canon better! I love competition...
the consumer wins everytime. Maybe Canon,Nikon and company will
notice, but not worried.

Click to expand...

The K-7 is looking to be a great little camera, and addresses nearly every complaint that people had with the earlier Pentax K mount cameras. It is finally truly competetive with the best Nikon/Canon have to offer in the respective category. Before, Pentax has always been a good value brand, maybe a couple unique features, but also some significant handicaps.

The K-7 refines the already great 14.6 MP effective sensor from Samsung. The original version of this sensor had some issues with heat buildup that would cause noise during long exposures forcing dark frame subtraction for anything more than a couple seconds. The new version can run in live view continuously now, and also has the movie mode (that was started with the older K20d which could do a 5 second burst at 21 fps). The K-7 now can do 1080i or 720p video with aperture control. 30 minutes or 4 GB, whichever comes first.

The K20d tried to compete with the 40d and d300, but had a plastic shell and all the magazines compared it to the d90, etc, which made it look really expensive, etc. The K-7 steps it up with a magnesium alloy body.

The K20d had poor low light auto focus, under certain lighting conditions especially (tungsten). The K-7 has a sensor to detect the light spectrum and adjust the autofocus according to light type (to prevent front/rear focus under certain lighting conditions), and a continuous assist focus light (green to be a bit less distracting).

The K20d could only shoot 3.x fps continuous. The K-7 5.2 fps. Buffer of 15 RAW files.

The K-7 can perform CA and distortion correction on all DA lenses (and DFA macro lenses).

K-7 can perform in camera HDR/tone mapping in JPG mode for 17 EV dynamic range (most JPGs are about half that).

K-7 has 100% viewfinder coverage at 0.92x magnification, vs 95% 0.94x for K20d.

K-7 has the auto level as mentioned earlier, can tell if your camera is straight. Also, when framing on the camera you can shift the sensor up to + - 1 or 2mm (spec not clear yet) and change the rotation up to 1 degree (so perfect your macro/landscape composition. This is doable using the body shake reduction that many Canon users seem not to want.

K-7 is well weather sealed, and new consumer level weather sealed lenses are coming. Before there were just "L" quality sealed lenses that are expensive.

Other stuff I am forgetting too. I shoot with a 5d too, so I am not trying to say anything bad about Canon, but I did preorder my K-7 yesterday

Eric
--

I never saw an ugly thing in my life: for let the form of an object be what it may - light, shade, and perspective will always make it beautiful. - John Constable

See my Blog at: http://viking79.blogspot.com/
See my Flickr Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/28177041@N03/
See my PPG Shots: http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/erictastad

The older model had unreliable exposure and WB, slow focus and low DR over ISO100. Improvements there may make it a worthwile upgrade for Pentax users, but nothing that would make me even remotely consider dumping 50D and switch.

By the time K-7 will hit stores in July, there will be leaks/announcements of the 60D, D400 and A7xx, so hold your horses!

Ilias

Dave Luttmann said:

I’d say it’s turning it up a notch! The K7 offers a lot that the 50D
doesn’t. It’s nice having in body stabilization for every lens.

Click to expand...

Which takes 0.6secs to activate and no panning mode. Not good enough for action.

The Davinator said:

Weather sealing is a huge plus.

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For 90% of users this is irrelevant. 50D can withstand much worse weather than I can

The Davinator said:

HD video is a nice addition for those who enjoy video.

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Next model will have it but I couldn't care less.

The Davinator said:

In body HDR is a nice addition….as is 5 stop
bracketing as opposed to just 2. 100% viewfinder that bigger and
brighter.

Click to expand...

Unless DR over ISO100 is much improved over k20D, in-body HDR is a almost a necessity. It also renders kinda useless the 5 stop bracketing. The viewfinder is slightly bigger but may not be brighter.

The Davinator said:

There’s a lot the K7 offers over the 50D.

Click to expand...

and vice-versa, especially for action/wildlife shooters.

Ilias

At the end of the day, the K-7 is what the K20 should have been. IF, a big IF, it performs up to spec it could be a legit contemporary to Canon and Nikon offerings. The biggest obstacle for the body only is focus performance. Pentax currently lags far behind Canon and Nikon. If the upgrades don't bring Pentax' focus performance in line with what Canon and Nikon offer then it's still a big blow which will prevent serious birders / sports shooters from joining the Pentax fold. From a system standpoint, lens selection is still a hurdle for those birders/ sports shooters when going to Pentax.

I absolutely am happy to see the offering by Pentax. I think they made great strides in recovering from a weak K20 (weak in comparison to it's contemporaries). So I think it's a positive step forward for Pentax users.

Having said that - given it's release AFTER the Canon 50d and Nikon D90 / D300 it's hard to see how the K7 is overall better than either of those offerings so it's unlikely to sway current Canon and Nikon shooters over to the Pentax camp. BUT, it could prevent market slipage a bit - keeping frustrated prosumer DSLR users from LEAVING pentax.

Just my opinion.

After you find out

Can't get the lenses you need/want
The high ISO noise is not up to Canon
The IS doesn't match your Canon lenses

Whatever.

Not that I know any of these are truly issues., but we have all heard this before.
We haven't had a real review of this camera yet.
I commend Pentax on the features they have added
BUT, how does it perform as an imager??

Cheers
Dan
--
'A bad idea in search of a good cause is..
just a bad idea' ... me

Biggis said:

The K7 looks nice! Although the 100% viewfinder is smaller... I didnt
see any comment on the brightness, but it does have a pentaprism (as
the xxD). And from the specs. it doesn't have 5 stop bracketing (but
in the menu screen shots it looks as it has).

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I haven't touched the k7 yet, it's not yet available in the store in my area, but I have played with the old K10D a lot, its VF is much BETTER than the 40D, 50D, bigger and brighter, so if the VF on the K7 is not any worse than the K10D/K20D, with now 100% instead of 95%, I think it should be better but not worse, VF on the Pentax is one reason I love their camera, pancake style lenses is another reason, I shoot with both Canon/Nikon with quite a few pretty nice lenses from both brand but I am attracted by the Pentax for many years, if the IQ of the K7 is no worse than the K20D with a little improvement on the noise performance, I will get one with their new weather resistant kit lens as my hiking camera, it will be just an additional camera not a replacement of anything, sometimes I don't feel like carry my 1D2 with those big Ls to go on a 20-25 mile crazy day hike or any extended backpacking trip, like the one I am doing this Friday to Yosemite, will do Half Dome and Glacier point in one day, go up from Mist Trial to H.D, then come down to Nevada Falls then up Glacial Point via the Panorama Trail then back to the valley via The Four Mile Trail, a good 20+ miles with more than 5000 Ft elevation gain day trip, any weight saving is not a bad thing, also a 20 mile Thousand Island Lake trip on June 18 during our company shutdown at Mammoth Lakes off Hwy395, also a trip towards later of the year, another few more crazy 25-30 miles back to back day hike trip in Utah. so I think I can take some advantage of a camera with smaller, lighter, but well built, weather resistant, with a nice bright and large VF, with a in-body IS, along with some other nice bells and whistles that all modern DSLR should have such Live view, anti dust system, in camera CA & distortion correction......

iliask said:

The older model had unreliable exposure and WB, slow focus and low DR
over ISO100. Improvements there may make it a worthwile upgrade for
Pentax users, but nothing that would make me even remotely consider
dumping 50D and switch.

By the time K-7 will hit stores in July, there will be
leaks/announcements of the 60D, D400 and A7xx, so hold your horses!

Ilias

Click to expand...

What a fan boy.