OMG you think the DL4 is good!

The LX3 & DL4 have their own problems and issues alone, the fact that a new camera has come out and 2 people have had an issue with it is nothing to start crying about, as Jim said the M8 has been plagued by loads of issues, some of which still haven't been resolved yet people still aspire to own one and pay £££££'s to do so.

The DL4 & LX3 have their own limitations - the main ones being the extreme smearing at iso's above 400 - looking at the DP2 examples and other peoples images, shots at iso 1200 on the DP2 only starts to show noise, yet retains maximum detail, iso 3200 the noise is there - but it's more film grain than any digicam I have seen and again retains the detail there - put your DL4 on 3200 and tell me you can still see detail through the mush that is on your screen!

As I have said before there are no reviews out there, only speculation, but user reviews of people who already have the cam say that Sigma has listened to the customer and ironed out the main issues that existed with the DP1 - now tell me that Leica & Panasonic have done that with the DL4 & LX3, all they seem to be bothered about is cramming more pixels into a tiny sensor - hardly image quality evolution, what they should do is concentrate on putting a sensor like this in their cameras - with their lenses it would no doubt blow the Dp2 out of the water.

But thats evidently just a dream - I think the M 4/3 Olympus will be interesting, shame Leica aren't interested and do not listen to their customers. At least Sigma seem to be pushing the boundaries in terms of IQ and not cramming pixels into tiny sensors like the DL4, hoping the loyal Leica fanatic will forgive them for the sake of owning that Red Dot.

In this thread there are now 4 Sigma DP2 that are all having the same problem. Sigma may be forgiven for the DP1 problems but when you can not have the lens extend and retract without the camera freezing up and having to remove the battery you got way more of any problem I have heard about the LX3 or DL4.

Please do not get your self all up tight, I am simply pointing out a problem and think that everyone should wait and see if the develops into a major problem. I am not bashing the camera, the images I have seen are quite good and will likly get one. BUT not until we see how this works out.

If I were Sigma, I would be freaking knowing that I have a thousands of these sitting in boxes getting ready to be delivered!

Maybe I just worry too much! LOL!

--
Greg Gebhardt in
Jacksonville, Florida

Sounds like Swine flu - the more hours go past the more cases there are :O)

Lets se how this develops, hopefully sigma will announce a faulty batch

I almost purchased one but am going to hold off. I really think it will work out in the end. How Sigma handles this is going to be interesting.

--
Greg Gebhardt in
Jacksonville, Florida

I'd wait to see how the interface pans out. I purchased a Sigma DP1 when they were first released and still own the camera, but I hardly ever use it and switched over to the DLux 4 as my primary point & shoot with no regrets.

The Sigma DP1's image quality is potentially superb, no doubt about it. But the interface was just horrible--poorly organized and god-awful slow. I'm fine with quirky cameras, but the DP1's interface was poor enough to really ruin it as a P&S. If I wanted to spend as much effort as it took to get the DP1 setup well for a shot, I'd rather just lug along my 5d and make a full-fledged photo shoot out of it.

My understanding is that the DP2's interface is improved, but it's going to take a really significant improvement over the DP1 to make the camera an attractive option for many folks.

Philip said:

From what I have read I would not buy it no matter how good the
photos are.

Click to expand...

Hmmmmm.. isn't the purpose of a camera to produce photos? So you would not buy it no matter how good the photos are... sorry, logic escapes me.

I have the DP1.. it is slow but there are situations where it is the best tool for the job. The DP2 with a faster lens will be even better under low light.

--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.boxedlight.com
http://www.oceona.com

The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear used to capture it.

Why not an LX3/DLux4-like camera w/ a Foveon sensor - now that would be ideal! Why doesn't Panasonic or Canon use this sensor on their high-end P&S's?

jafleming3 said:

Why not an LX3/DLux4-like camera w/ a Foveon sensor - now that would
be ideal! Why doesn't Panasonic or Canon use this sensor on their
high-end P&S's?

Click to expand...

The Foveon sensor has its quirks.. it tends to loose saturation at high ISO settings and it also suffers from a bit of green fringing under certain circumstances.

It is a sensor with some incredible benefits but also a few quirky problems. I don't think anyone wants to put such a sensor in their high-end products until the warts can be removed.

I just wish I could hang some M-Mount lenses on the DP2 box.

--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.boxedlight.com
http://www.oceona.com

The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear used to capture it.

Corkcampbell said:

Leica to survive, but what I meant was that it will do damage to
Leica's (former) reputation over the long run. Somewhat like Jaguar
being bought by Ford and lower end models being re-badged Lincolns,
which, in turn, were based on platforms designed for mid-level cars.

Click to expand...

Leica has outsourced-rebadged products from its consumer division since the early 90s, using Vivitar & Panasonic (& Fujifilm)........ the Miniluxes, Digiluxes & C-D-V Luxes. If Leica's reputation was damagaed as a result, it was sure kept quiet.
--
Bob

Jim Radcliffe said:

I just wish I could hang some M-Mount lenses on the DP2 box.

--
Jim Radcliffe

Click to expand...

In the middle of next month Oly will announce its first mFT entry and it is rumored to have the DP* form factor (no eyelevel finder), but with interchangeable lenses. Near the end of the year one with an EVF and it may used the Pen F form factor. The Pen F & Leica CL were about the same size. You can hang just about any lens mount on the mFT bodies (if it has an f/stop ring).

So, form-factor-wise ... there will be a new kid on the block. Oly's heritage is related to the Leica M. The OM series was designed to be an SLR M, to address the rangefinder's limitations. The CL or Pen F might be a target in the design of the non-consumer version.
--
Bob

I have the DP1 and never thought the slowness was a big issue because I just use the camera for landscapes. 41mm does not do a thing for me so the DP2 is out. While the DP1 produces very nice sharp images, I was never thrilled as some are with the Sigma colors such as the pale blue sky and off greens.

I would take the DL4 over the Sigma cameras just for the more open lens, zoom and low light abilities, performance, overall flexibility and even picture quality if considering the color.

It does seem that there are some pressing problems with the DP2 that may be a bit more serious then the DP1 had. If I were looking to get one I would wait for some firmware or recall fixes the lock up issues. Got to give Sigma credit for producing these cameras with the APS-C sensor. I just wish others would use the larger sensor also.

that the writer doesn't realize what he or she just wrote? Hilarious.

Maybe he means that he doesn't have any money, or is in a prison where cameras are not allowed, or is allergic to small black objects with lenses...

Let's have some more:

"I won't buy that computer no matter how well it does what I want it to do."

"I won't buy that book no matter how much I would enjoy it."

"I won't buy that new heart valve no matter how much it is guaranteed to extend my life by twenty years."

They are so different, why compare?

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25143217@N05/

I have the DP1 and in some situations it is the best camera when I am travelling light and just want cameras I can tuck into pockets. The DP1 and DL4 I see as complementary rather than competitive.

I am glad to see that in the DP2 Sigma seems to have corrected the reds that were a real pain in the DP1 where they were coming out more pink/magenta than red.

I may well get a DP2 after the initial issues are resolved.

Simon
--
http://sclamb.zenfolio.com/

stuck lenses, but not much else.

Corkcampbell said:

stuck lenses, but not much else.

Click to expand...

Yes the stuck lenses (hopefuly just a batch issue) and any other glitches that might exist. I always prefer to wait two or three months to see what initial issues arise and how they are resolved.

Simon
--
http://sclamb.zenfolio.com/

Because they are roughly the same size cameras and both offer an interesting set of features for both cameras: the DL4 for it's wide angle zoom (although limited) and the DP2 for image quality, I was basically comparing 2 similiar sized pocket cams in terms of image quality - the main factor why anyone would buy a digital camera is the image quality it produces overall

Excellent IQ and p&s size is a dream (Oskar Barnack's) come true I would think.

I carry some sort of camera with me at all times. Usually the Epson R-D1 digital rangefinder camera or a Barnack film camera or a DSLR. Last and always last choice is any one of my current p&s digital cameras. That's because of the not so great IQ. Canon G-10, Leica D-Lux 2 and Pentax 750Z. They are not bad but I usually want better. So the DP-1 and DP-2 are very appealing to me.

Edit: I may have been unfair to my p&S G-10, D-Lux 2 and 750z as upon reflection they are very good at times.
--
Life as an artist has had some unusual times to say the least.
visit my web site http://www.flickr.com/photos/artist_eyes/
Remember to click on 'All Sizes' for better viewing.
Artist Eyes

Peter Nelson said:

Excellent IQ and p&s size is a dream (Oskar Barnack's) come true I
would think.

I carry some sort of camera with me at all times. Usually the Epson
R-D1 digital rangefinder camera or a Barnack film camera or a DSLR.
Last and always last choice is any one of my current p&s digital
cameras. That's because of the not so great IQ. Canon G-10, Leica
D-Lux 2 and Pentax 750Z. They are not bad but I usually want better.
So the DP-1 and DP-2 are very appealing to me.

Edit: I may have been unfair to my p&S G-10, D-Lux 2 and 750z as upon
reflection they are very good at times.
--

Click to expand...

Peter, as with many things there are trade-offs. I love my DP1 but it has faults. I love my DL4, but it also has faults. If I want flexibility in focal length and fast operation, I take the DL4. If I want ultimate IQ then I would take the DP1. If I want the best image quality I can get but need a zoom lens, again the DL4. If I want the best image quality I can get and know I won't need to zoom, then the DP1.

No camera does it all perfectly. At this point in time though, I can say that I reach for the DL4 more than the DP1 and the compromises best fit how I want to use my P&S camera. I carry the DL4 with me all the time and the fixed focal length DP1 would be too limiting for me I feel.

Of course, when it really matters, I will use the M8.2 and the primes, so the above really relates to those times when I want to take a P&S out and about.

Simon
--
http://sclamb.zenfolio.com/

Michael Reichman's review of the DP1 stated that "The LCD screen of the DP1 is a disgrace. It's simply awful.". That and several other issues kept me from getting a DP1.

My understanding is that some of the issues have improved but that it still has the same low resolution screen.

I get the impression that Sigma is good at the technical aspects of producing cameras and poor at the usability aspects. If all you care about is the end result then a DP2 should be fine. If you care about how the camera handles then the DP2 seems to have some serious rough spots.