Recommed a pro use of light book?

I'd love to brush up on / verify or perhaps learn some new lighting skills.

Are they any advanced, perferably old school style books that anyone can recommend?

Particularly I want to read about the use of ambient and mixed light, different techniques with studio lights and flash guns, and more importantly how to use them in real complex situations, such as mixing multiple scources or pre-existing light with photographer generated light, 'throwing light' and other similar advanced topics.

Hi,

I am sure you should find something on creative cow.com on these type of types of lighting.

As far as making it complex I can only suggest that complex is problematic and often not favorable. Learn to use one light and mix the other light sources with it before you move onto multiple lights.

Basic colour balance, use this for a guide.

Flash is white
Florescent is Green
Tungsten is yellow
Cloudy daylight is Blue
sunny daylight is white but edging on the side of Yellow

I sometimes use little gels on my flash heads to balance the light.

I would also turn off any florescent light because it is a muddy and undefined light.

Hope this helps.

Chris

atlasphotos said:

As far as making it complex I can only suggest that complex is
problematic and often not favorable. Learn to use one light and mix
the other light sources with it before you move onto multiple lights.

Click to expand...

Sorry, but this really don't help, and isn't answering my question. I already use multiple lights, and its not a case of making it complex, its a case of solving problems in complex senerios.

atlasphotos said:

Basic colour balance, use this for a guide.
etc.

Click to expand...

Sorry, but I'm not sure if this was meant to be taken as a tongue in cheek dry wit, or if you were genuinelyt trying to help, but if it was, thanks, but you've really got the wrong end of the stick to the kind of book I require.
The clue is in the title, and I did say advacned as well.

atlasphotos said:

I am sure you should find something on creative cow.com on these type of
types of lighting.

Click to expand...

I'm also looking for a proper published book, rather than anything online.

For a very technical approach to lighting, from an old-school point of view, Kodak put out some books that were extremely useful to me.

For more practical, real-world advise, I really like the Pro Lighting series published by RotoVision Press. They have a series of books on topics like Fashion, Product photography, Food, Portraits, etc. Basically, the format is a photo, and then a discussion and description of the lighting techniques used to achieve it. Really helped me a lot.

I have a feeling that a lot of these books are now out of print. What you need is a big city with really good used bookstores -- these can be a goldmine for classic old photo books at generally reasonable prices.

Best,
Paul
http://upstatephotographers.com
--
-- In search of Wabi-Sabi

Paul Grupp said:

For more practical, real-world advise, I really like the Pro Lighting
series published by RotoVision Press.

Click to expand...

Thanks Paul, I actually have 3 of those Rotovision books, and they are absolutely excellent. I highly recommend them too. I love the format and the way they work, but I'm after something more.

I tell you what would be great, would be a book, written in a similar format to those Rotovision books, but on a much more advanced level, that not only showed you that one shot, but also showed you further ways to improve or change the look of it, and discussed each technique.

I have a couple of books like this, but they are such low level. I don't want the peak to be a hairlight and reflector! I really want something advanced, and I want to know how to replicate it each time.

I'll give you an example of the kind of things I have to do, which I know what I am doing through experience, but would like to know more accurate or proper ways of doing it.

Lets say I am in a club, its dark, but has beautiful atmostsperic lighting, perhaps a chandelier, and also coloured LED uplighters. Without that atmostsphere I have nothing. But there are dark areas, which need to be lifted a bit. So how to calculate how much, and how to light those dark areas without affecting the amience? or burning out the bulbs. Especially when the club is so dark I might need a 10 second exposure. Then what if I throw a model into the mix? and some candles. It becomes such a mix of lighting, and it all needs to be perfect, or the shot doesn't work.

Thats the kind of stuff I need to understand more, and to which I've love a book for.

The Hot Shoe Diaries by Joe McNally is a fantastic book on using individual to multiple flashes to get outstanding results.

He uses the Nikon system, but he describes how he set up all the shots and anyone should be able to duplicate many of the shots with almost any system.



You can get a good feel for the book from Joe's Blog

http://www.joemcnally.com/blog/2009/02/22/its-doneits-real/

--
http://www.almariphoto.net

riddell said:

Are they any advanced, perferably old school style books that anyone can recommend?

Click to expand...

1) Light Science & Magic (most recent edition) by Hunter, Biver & Fuqua

2) Matters of Light and Depth by Ross Lowell

3) Hot Shoe Diaries by McNally, Kirk Tuck's Minimalist Lighting book, or Lou Jones forth coming book on the same topic.

4) "Secrets of Lighting on Location" by Bob Krist (this may now be out of print)

As I mentioned in a similar post a week or so ago, try Andreas Feininger's "Light and Lighting in Photography".

While the technology has changed since his books, the principles are still rock solid, and any of Feininger's books are excellent learning tools.

Then look up David Vestal's "The Craft of Photography". There's a lot of darkroom in it, but there's also a lot of "how to" for use of light.
--
jrbehm
http://www.jeffbehm.com

Yeah, those look like some great books, I had a quick look at them, but I've got a deadline biting my butt and need to get some photos out this afternoon, so I'll have another look at them later, but I think those look much more on track.

So thanks again, and keep them coming!

Jeff Behm said:

As I mentioned in a similar post a week or so ago, try Andreas
Feininger's "Light and Lighting in Photography".

While the technology has changed since his books, the principles are
still rock solid, and any of Feininger's books are excellent learning
tools.

Click to expand...

I second that recommendation.

Ellis Vener
http://www.ellisvener.com

Ellis Vener said:

Ellis Vener said:

Are they any advanced, perferably old school style books that anyone can recommend?

Click to expand...

1) Light Science & Magic (most recent edition) by Hunter, Biver & Fuqua

2) Matters of Light and Depth by Ross Lowell

3) Hot Shoe Diaries by McNally, Kirk Tuck's Minimalist Lighting book,
or Lou Jones forth coming book on the same topic.

4) "Secrets of Lighting on Location" by Bob Krist (this may now be
out of print)

Click to expand...

--
All great books.

Light, Science and Magic is probably your best bet as it covers pretty much every situation, and it's well written. Matters of Light and Depth is one of my favourite photo books ever, a classic lighting book, it's been out of print for a while but you should be able to pick it up used fairly easily I think. They are a little more oriented to the studio though. McNally's book is great but it doesn't quite have the scope of the others but from the OP apparent needs it may be the ticket. It is great for small flash on location, particularly if you use Nikon. I've seen a number of Krist's amazing books but I haven't seen the lighting one. Lou Jones' book might be good; Focal press usually publishes quality books. Kirk Tuck's I haven't read but to be honest many of the Amherst media books are not great, they often seem to promise a lot more than they deliver; although I admit I do have quite a few myself.

http://www.ianbullphotography.com
Ian

Probably the best teacher of lighting techniques that I know of was Dean Collins. He conducted worldwide seminars and produced videos on lighting everything from cars, people, to small gadgets. He also covered many mixed lighting situations indoors and out.

You may have to search for the videos and printed handouts, but it is well worth it if you truly wish to learn lighting and exposure.

The familiar stretched fabric diffusers over frames were pioneered by Dean, I believe he sold the concept to Calumet and it has been copied by numerous other manufacturers. He also was a minimalist in that he taught ways to make one light source do the job of many by using mirrors and reflectors.

Dean has passed on unfortunately, but his techniques for lighting, color use, and exposure developed in film's heyday, are just as valid today for digital imaging.

You may also find his "Chromazone" system of interest; it was a way of determining the exact effect color gels would produce on a subject throughout the mediums dynamic range. For example, you would know what shade of red a gel will produce with each stop of over/under exposure. It is very reminiscent of the Zone System, but brought into color.

nzav said:

You may also find his "Chromazone" system of interest; it was a way
of determining the exact effect color gels would produce on a subject
throughout the mediums dynamic range. For example, you would know
what shade of red a gel will produce with each stop of over/under
exposure. It is very reminiscent of the Zone System, but brought into
color.

Click to expand...

Agreed!! Dean Collin's teachings were very influential on my approach to lighting. I still use his Light Form panels and gel techiniques. His ability to teach how to predictably and reliably replicate whatever color you required with a meter, a gel and your selection of white, gray or black seamless is invaluable, and is seen all through my work. His key shifting techniques are also amazing for outdoor work - amazingly simple and effective.

Geez, he was only what 52(?) when he died, right? He burned pretty intensely, but I loved his teaching videos. Check Amazon for them, I'm not parting with mine!
--
jrbehm
http://www.jeffbehm.com

I will add a third recommendation to Dean Collins lighting DVDs; you can rent them from SmartFlix.com

Regards,
Mike

--

Polaroid Swinger; Kodak Instamatic 126 Ricoh 500G; Canon FTb; Nikon F2AS; Nikon F3HP; Hasselblad 501CM; Pentax 67II, Nikon 990; Nikon D1x; Nikon D300; PhaseOne P65+ (in my dreams ;-)

I believe Dave Montizambert used to be one of Dean Collin's assistants. He uses some creative lighting to get his shots too.

http://www.montizambert.com/b2.html

Funny thing, I was thinking exactly what riddel was, last night. It'd be nice to have a guide book around to consult when a circumstance hits that I'm infamiliar with. Thanks, Paul, for the reminders on titles and all. It's funny, I forgot about the Rotovision books, which is unforgivable. I had some of my photos in one of their books, "Hot to Photograph the Nude" back in 2000 or so.
Thanks again for the reminders, even though I wasn't the OP.
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

Yes, and Tony Corbel too; Tony is still on the PPA speaking and teaching circuit and is always comical; you can't help but learn something (many things) new every time he speaks. If fact, I think Tony is teaching a week long class this summer in Raleigh as part of the East Coast School.

Regards,
Mike
--

Polaroid Swinger; Kodak Instamatic 126 Ricoh 500G; Canon FTb; Nikon F2AS; Nikon F3HP; Hasselblad 501CM; Pentax 67II, Nikon 990; Nikon D1x; Nikon D300; PhaseOne P65+ (in my dreams ;-)

I was doing household stuff today, and as a result of this thread, put on the Dean Collins tapes just for the fun of it. It blows my mind how much of his stuff is integral to my thinking about light. What's even more amazing, is how much of it I've neglected to use lately. What the HECK is THAT about? Geez, I built, lighted and painted my cove based upon his use of one for shooting a Porsche in studio.

Interestingly, if you study the Feininger and Adams books, it's similar basic information, just presented as a video (an easier to use learning tool) by Collins, with technically current 'how to's"
--
jrbehm
http://www.jeffbehm.com

Exactly! Do we look at your backgrounds and instantly just recall that you can make any BG white by getting a reflective reading of 2 1/3 stops above 18% gray or black by making it 4 1/3 stops below to get pure photographic black - even from a white BG? Do we always think in terms of Caucasian skin being 36% or 72% + - 1/3 stop latitude for higher key? Do we remember that everything can vary including specularity, edge falloff and and shadows so on as long as we keep the diffused value constant? And how about all those tricks such as evenly lighting 6 models in a stratight line with one softbox pointed away from them and understand why it works. All that and his chromozone system to automatically get any shade of color on a white or black BG, proper use of diffusion and reflectors - how quickly we forget the basics and use automation as a crutch these days. I just love how he has all of those tips – things like only tree parfin is what you have to use to get perfect water beads on surfaces (that is how ‘cold’ beer bottle and similar shots are done). Then his other CDs show how you can do all of your lighting and have total control using just one strobe and reflectors – the guy was amazing.

I just can’t find any books or web sites on lighting that cover this level of lighting concepts in practice, though it is considered advanced for most, we realize after learning it just how basic and essential thoe concepts he taught are.

Regards,
Mike

--

Polaroid Swinger; Kodak Instamatic 126 Ricoh 500G; Canon FTb; Nikon F2AS; Nikon F3HP; Hasselblad 501CM; Pentax 67II, Nikon 990; Nikon D1x; Nikon D300; PhaseOne P65+ (in my dreams ;-)

Paul Grupp said:

For a very technical approach to lighting, from an old-school point
of view, Kodak put out some books that were extremely useful to me.

For more practical, real-world advise, I really like the Pro Lighting
series published by RotoVision Press. They have a series of books on
topics like Fashion, Product photography, Food, Portraits, etc.
Basically, the format is a photo, and then a discussion and
description of the lighting techniques used to achieve it. Really
helped me a lot.

I have a feeling that a lot of these books are now out of print. What
you need is a big city with really good used bookstores -- these can
be a goldmine for classic old photo books at generally reasonable
prices.

Best,
Paul
http://upstatephotographers.com
--
-- In search of Wabi-Sabi

Click to expand...

Consider your library. Often, a wealth of such books can be found there, including the older out of print versions. Most good 'educational' books have chapter summaries so photo those if I'm on unfamiliar ground. The library doesn't mind that.

On real cold winter days, spending an afternoon at the library is quite relaxing and informative when learning like that. Good idea to get online first to make sure there is a good selection of books there on the categories you are interested in. I'll often reserve a book in advance then review it when there and take it out only if it has content really useful to me.

jj
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jjlad/sets/