Lost in DSLR entry-level Funhouse

Trying Canon 1000D with 18-55 IS kit lens. Operates fine, light, easy to handle, fairly quick. Pix seem surprisingly soft no matter which of stock settings (Standard, Portrait, Landscape, Faithful, etc.).

Used to have Nikon D40 with 18-55 and 55-200 VR. Loved it. Sold it (probably a mistake).

Now have a friend's Nikon D60 with 18-55 VR to compare with Canon 1000D. Well, tomorrow I will have.

Keeping expense to minimum and looking for best IQ for walk around shooting, does the D60 compare as similar to D40 or lacking the D40's "look & feel," which is what I've been told, and what i think I've sen myself in other's photos.

How do both cameras compare with Canon 1000D, if you have experience with that one?

Thanks.

What were you looking for when you sold your D40 kit?
If you want more features you want a D90, D80 or A $599 d200 from Best Buy.
D60 only gets tou a few more mp.
You could wait for the new 5000 but why wait. Try them all.
--
All DSLRS can take great pictures
http://www.pixel-peeper.com/
Check my Photo Blog
http://parisea.blogspot.com/

best to give all a go and see what feels right.

the d5000 seems good from what i've read and having used a D40 and D60 if it evolves from these 2 then you can't really go wrong. if i was you, wait, give it a test and see if you like the canon's and way up the pro's and cons

also, read the reviews here coz they are the best in the business

I'd like to ask you to do a quick comparison between the D40 and D60 and the Canon Rebel XS. I've been comparing, and while at first I preferred the XS (it's noticeably lighter, easy to operate), it now seems to me that the images out of the D60 (both have the stabilized 18-55 lenses) are significantly sharper, owing (possibly?) in part to the Nikon VR being superior to the Canon IS? Maybe owing to something else. I've been doing tests in Standard picture settings and in Program mode and in Auto mode. The difference seems significant.

I'm also wondering if a D40 would be preferred over both of these cameras, inasmuch as I am not ging to be blowing the pictures up over 11x17 or 13x19, and that rarely. Mostly 8x10 or so. I have been impressed with the particular quality of the D40 images, so I'd like to hear about this camera as compared to the others.

I was interested in this thread and in particular in this message:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=31623454

Hi, I think the difference that you are seeing is down to the post processing that the camera is doing to the image before creating the jpg.

I think Canon tend to less post process because whereas its easy to add post process, its very hard to remove post process. In other words, the Canon approach gives you images that are easier to work with in post, where as the other approach gives you images that are more pleasing straight out the camera.

Personally, I think worrying about image quality from Nikon/Canon DSLRs is a waste of time, because theyre all good. I would worry more about features, price and ease of use.

Greetings fbx,

I've been spending quite a bit of time trying how to best answer your thread, and I've decided I'm going to answer them based off of some information from your initial thread. Due to the length, I'm also going to have to split up this reply into two replys, hope you don't mind.

fbx wrote:
( Initial Thread )

fbx said:

Keeping expense to minimum and looking for best IQ for walk around
shooting, does the D60 compare as similar to D40 or lacking the D40's
"look & feel," which is what I've been told, and what i think I've
sen myself in other's photos.

Click to expand...

The D60 and D40 output looks very much the same. I suspect similar algorithms are used to determine color saturation, contrast, etc... The only differences I've seen in shooting the D40 and the D60 are these: The D40 has a faster flash snyc. The benefit of this is if the light is brighter, you can use lower f-stops (a more open aperture) in conjunction with the flash for your outdoor portraits. I take a lot of portraits, and my D40's high flash snyc is my favorite feature on the camera. The D60 has a 10mp sensor, an airflow control system & image sensor cleaning system, my D40 has neither and periodically gets dust on the Low-pass filter. The D60 also has a more flexible Active D-Lighting feature. The fps is also slightly faster 3fps vs 2.5 fps. Lastly the D60 comes with an VR 18-55mm lens. Feature wise, for only a $100 more the D60 seems like a better deal.

Now, as to which is better.... It's a tough call, even though the D60 isn't that much more, my bias leans towards the D40 simply for the high speed flash snyc. You'll probably be happy with either one, if you want to save money, get the D40 - while you still can.

-- cont...

NHT
while ( ! ( succeed = try() ) );

(From Original Thread)

fbx said:

How do both cameras compare with Canon 1000D, if you have experience
with that one?

Click to expand...

( Recent Thread )

fbx said:

I'd like to ask you to do a quick comparison between the D40 and D60
and the Canon Rebel XS. I've been comparing, and while at first I
preferred the XS (it's noticeably lighter, easy to operate), it now
seems to me that the images out of the D60 (both have the stabilized
18-55 lenses) are significantly sharper, owing (possibly?) in part to
the Nikon VR being superior to the Canon IS? Maybe owing to something
else. I've been doing tests in Standard picture settings and in
Program mode and in Auto mode. The difference seems significant.

Click to expand...

The Canon is a bit of a mixed bag for me, it has some nice features, but it never quite leaves me with that satisfied feeling. Let me explain. Feature wise, neither the D40 or D60 can really hold a candle to the Canon 1000D (XS). There's a portrait grip option, bracketing, mirror lock-up feature (important to many, not as much to others), RAW editing and other useful software included, direct access buttons (e.g. ISO, WB).... But at the same time it lacks some basics: no wireless remote capability, no true spot meter (it has a 9% partial spot meter), it lacks the textured grip and thumb rest of the XSi (which it really needs - given the cheap slippery body and tiny hand grip). So overall it's got some plusses and minuses.

IQ comparison: Personally I think at the default settings, that the XS gives sharper photos right out of the box, but set the D40/60's Picture styles on Vivid or shoot in RAW and sharpness is evens. The biggest difference with the Cameras image quality IMO, is in their metering and color reproduction. Here I much prefer the Nikons. Now this is probably the most subjective topic and I'm sure a few dozen Canon fans will chime in and say the opposite. But from my own experiences, what I noticed when shooting these 3 is that the 420 pixel Metering system on the D40/D60 don't give me the mixed exposures like on the some of the Canons. I set my Exposure Compensation on my D40 at EV -0.3 and leave it. The Canon XS and XSi I have to adjust the Exposure Compensation + - as much as 1EV to expose the scene correctly (in many instances - I just can't 'set it and forget it'). Only available with the 18-55, no body only option. The last thing I noticed, on the Canon, the battery life isn't great, (buy the grip and 2 batteries and you'll far exceed the Nikon's...)

For $509 the Canon XS is, in general, quite a good value, I'd really, really suggest trying it out, side by side with the Nikons, see which one - to you - has better color, sharpness, metering, WB, ....[& whatever else you feel is important.]

fbx said:

I'm also wondering if a D40 would be preferred over both of these
cameras, inasmuch as I am not ging to be blowing the pictures up over
11x17 or 13x19, and that rarely. Mostly 8x10 or so. I have been
impressed with the particular quality of the D40 images, so I'd
like to hear about this camera as compared to the others.

Click to expand...

The D40 makes gorgeous prints upto 16x20 with little fuss needing to be done to my pictures. I'm sure the Others will do the same. On a personal note, and you might not care, but it's something I want to point out: I've had my D40 for a bit over 2yrs now, and I've finally decided I want more in a Camera, I was going to upgrade to the D90, but it's just a bit higher priced then I'd like right now, (which also automatically rules out the D300 too - darn it.) The D5000 however, while not a perfect camera, has most of the features, I'm interested in at the moment.
• 12MP (not concerned about the MP, but do want a good sensor)
• 11 Pt AF w/3D Tracking!!! (This work brilliantly on theD90)
• D90/D300 Picture Controls
• NEF + JPEG Fine
• Kelvin WB
• ADL (5 options)
• Auto Distortion Control
• Interval Time Shooting
• Viewfinder Gridlines
• GPS
• In Camera CA removal
• More Retouching Options
• Scene Modes that include High Key and Low Key
• 100,000 Cycle Shutter
• 2 types of remotes. (Wireless or Wired)
• 4 FPS/63 JPEGs (I Need this!)
• Better High ISO ??
• Can take the same battery from my D40
• ISOs in 1/3 EV stops

To me, these are worth paying $250+ for a D5000 body over the D60 or XS.

fbx said:

I was interested in this thread and in particular in this message:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=31623454

Click to expand...

I hope I've been helpful and fair, granted I've really enjoyed shooting my Nikon, so I know I have bias. Please let me know if there's anything else you want my view/opinion on.

Good luck.

NHT
while ( ! ( succeed = try() ) );

Strangest thing. I wrote a reply to this and it would not post on the site. I copied it to a txt file and tried the next day. Still would not post--takes me to a page not available page.

Here's my reply, retyped (and shortened):

Thanks to NHT for the clear detailed response. Since I asked I've shot with Canon Rebel XS and Nikon D60, both with 18-24mm lenses.

There were many small differences, some favoring each camera.

Eventually I bought a used D40 and Nikon 18-135 lens off eBay for good prices.

Thanks to all.

That's both with 18-55mm lenses, of course.

Have fun, we expect sharp pics ;-)
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http://s259.photobucket.com/albums/hh315/alex_837/
Just trying to get better.....

After owning a D70 and shooting a D40 and D80, I bought a 1000D as my small camera over the D60. I have the kit 18-55 and a 50/1.8. I like the 1000D ergonomics over the D40/60. It has more hard buttons which I really value and the My Menu takes care of the couple of things I don't have a physical button for. The menus generally seem faster than the D40. Inexpensive, more AF options, MLU, bracketing, ISO display in viewfinder, less high ISO noise AFAICT.

i liked it as well, particularly the weight, the LCD, and I prefer my buttons on the right of the LCD rather than the (Nikon) left, but there were some aspects i liked less well, too. so good fortune with yours! i may come back to it. for now i've ordered the D40 with 18-135, and, just for the heck of it, oreder one of the $265 D40X bodies from Newegg. Something will end up on eBay for sure.