T1i / 500D VS Current 20D

Hi All !
OK, I'm torn. I have a Canon 20D (in very good condition)
and the following L series Lens:

24-70 2.8 NON IS
70-210 2.8 IS USM

and these other items:
10-22 3.5-4.5 USM EF-S NON IS
Tamron 18-200 3.5-6.3 DiII LD NON IS (my "Travel Lite lens")
2x Canon multiplier
Speedlite 580EX

My dilemma: Do I "upgrade" to a Rebel T1i ??!!? After reading reviews & checking specs, the T1i features a LOT of the tech in a 50D (the first camera Canon has tempted me with, the previous ones weren't enough of an upgrade), but not it's price.

I'm VERY tempted by the tech (Better ISO & Better cropping the 15 MP gives), and the WEIGHT, since as a amateur I have found myself shying away from going out as often due to weight, and I miss the IS (and QUALITY!) by using the Tamron ...

I shoot a wide range of subjects, and love the 20D's 5 FPS, while the Rebel is 3.4 FPS, so I think I might gnash my teeth ... LOL! Besides, the 20D is higher quality.

Sadly, my income is way down these days (!) so can't afford to do a 50D. Do I really want to drop down to the Rebel? It sure looks sweet and first reviews sound great.
OK Peeps - Lets hear some discussion of pros & cons! I'll wear a hockey mask.
Thanks SO much,
PuterPro

If you're not interested in video, I'd take the 40D over the 500D any day. You'd get a better camera plus save some money.

n/t

I have heard that professional photographers shot weddings with the original digital rebel the 300D...and the clients found the images good enough! I have it and also the 20D and the 350XT and the 450XSi and the 1DsMKII and they are all up to the task of photography.

So what exactly is the point of your post?

jonrobertp said:

--

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visit my web site http://www.flickr.com/photos/artist_eyes/
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jonrobertp said:

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Click to expand...

Well, I bet the camera companies love that attitude. The 20D still does everything it did when it was viewed as the latest and greatest. If it does what you need done, it is perfect.

Consumerism for the sake of consuming is not a reason to "upgrade".

--
Nothing is enough for the man to whom nothing is enough.

n/t

your consumption habits too...LOL...

I upgraded from 10D to the XTi and have no regrets. Why not a XSi?

--
Bill
Keep on keepin' on!

PuterPro said:

Hi All !
OK, I'm torn. I have a Canon 20D (in very good condition)
and the following L series Lens:

24-70 2.8 NON IS
70-210 2.8 IS USM

and these other items:
10-22 3.5-4.5 USM EF-S NON IS
Tamron 18-200 3.5-6.3 DiII LD NON IS (my "Travel Lite lens")
2x Canon multiplier
Speedlite 580EX

My dilemma: Do I "upgrade" to a Rebel T1i ??!!? After reading reviews
& checking specs, the T1i features a LOT of the tech in a 50D (the
first camera Canon has tempted me with, the previous ones weren't
enough of an upgrade), but not it's price.

I'm VERY tempted by the tech (Better ISO & Better cropping the 15 MP
gives), and the WEIGHT, since as a amateur I have found myself shying
away from going out as often due to weight, and I miss the IS (and
QUALITY!) by using the Tamron ...

I shoot a wide range of subjects, and love the 20D's 5 FPS, while the
Rebel is 3.4 FPS, so I think I might gnash my teeth ... LOL! Besides,
the 20D is higher quality.

Sadly, my income is way down these days (!) so can't afford to do a
50D. Do I really want to drop down to the Rebel? It sure looks sweet
and first reviews sound great.
OK Peeps - Lets hear some discussion of pros & cons! I'll wear a
hockey mask.
Thanks SO much,
PuterPro

Click to expand...

No discussion is necessary. You want to buy a 500D, you know the features - don't think you'll get us to justify you spending money. You're an adult - make the decision and live with it.

--
Sam Kanter, NYC

n/t

Sam said:

No discussion is necessary. You want to buy a 500D, you know the features - don't think you'll get us to justify you spending money. You're an adult - make the decision and live with it.
--
Sam Kanter, NYC

LOL! Sam - you're a hoot! Yeah, guess you nailed it on the head. Didn't realize I was really looking for WAF reasons! (Wife Acceptance Factor) {Grin}

But I have to say the discussions have their value, if not just for me, but for others who are thinking about this camera too. I've learned a LOT in these forums, sometimes from off-shoot discussions between Pros, often about things I'd never thought to ask. These things take on a life of their own.

jonrobertp - Slant six! Funny. Made me laugh.

I also think that the main selling points at this time are:

1. Better ISO / lower noise levels dues to advances in Tech, as you point out later.
2. MUCH better screen than my poor little 20D

But AGAINST it I have:

1: The 20D is a tank. Could stop a 20mm round.

2. Faster cycle time for action shots - I have gotten shots from that that I'd never have gotten with 3.4 FPS. HOWEVER - someone pointed out in another thread that you could use movie mode for those, as long as you weren't blowing it big.

Hmmm ...

PuterPro said:

Sam said:
No discussion is necessary. You want to buy a 500D, you know the
features - don't think you'll get us to justify you spending money.
You're an adult - make the decision and live with it.
--
Sam Kanter, NYC

LOL! Sam - you're a hoot! Yeah, guess you nailed it on the head.
Didn't realize I was really looking for WAF reasons! (Wife Acceptance
Factor) {Grin}

But I have to say the discussions have their value, if not just for
me, but for others who are thinking about this camera too. I've
learned a LOT in these forums, sometimes from off-shoot discussions
between Pros, often about things I'd never thought to ask. These
things take on a life of their own.

jonrobertp - Slant six! Funny. Made me laugh.

I also think that the main selling points at this time are:

1. Better ISO / lower noise levels dues to advances in Tech, as you
point out later.
2. MUCH better screen than my poor little 20D

But AGAINST it I have:

1: The 20D is a tank. Could stop a 20mm round.
2. Faster cycle time for action shots - I have gotten shots from that
that I'd never have gotten with 3.4 FPS. HOWEVER - someone pointed
out in another thread that you could use movie mode for those, as
long as you weren't blowing it big.

Hmmm ...

Click to expand...

Sorry if I was a little harsh - but I think you -know- you will buy the 500D even though you don't -need- it. I have made the decision as well, even though my 350D is fine, and have the usual guilt in spending money on something that I don't really need. I usually try to sell some old gear on Ebay to relieve some of it - maybe that would be more worthwhile than trying to get a bunch of strangers to justify the expense. ;-)

Actually, I am most interested in exploring the video capabilities, as I have shot video professionally but never HD or with an array of lenses. The added still photo benefits are just gravy...

--
Sam Kanter, NYC

Another thought ... I have used DXO Labs software for several years (great stuff that!) and I remembered someone mentioned they had sensor charts, so I just ran a compare 20D vs 50D (the T1i / 500D is too new for them to have data but the 50D supposedly has virtually the same sensor) :

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Image-Quality-Database/Compare-cameras/ (appareil1) 178|0 (appareil2) 267|0 (onglet) 0 (brand) Canon (brand2) Canon

I discovered that for all it's "NEW" technology the 50D scored LOWER on virtually all measurements - Tonal range & Color sensitivity in particular were significantly lower across the whole ISO range. It does, of course, have two levels of ISO sensitivity over the 20D, allowing one to get a shot where it might not be otherwise possible, but apparently at the expense of MORE noise in every other shot!!
That's quite a trade off.

I can't imagine that Canon UP'D the specs of the 500D to be better than the 50D?!? Could they have improved the noise specs? I'd think not ...
This gets more complicated.

PuterPro

Sam says: Sorry if I was a little harsh

You weren't! I thought you were funny! Cut right to the chase!!

• but I think you -know- you will buy the 500D even though you don't -need- it. I have made the decision as well, even though my 350D is fine, and have the usual guilt in spending money on something that I don't really need. I usually try to sell some old gear on Ebay to relieve some of it - maybe that would be more worthwhile than trying to get a bunch of strangers to justify the expense. ;-)

Actually, the deal with my Wife is - 20D on Ebay FIRST, then new toy!

Actually, I am most interested in exploring the video capabilities, as I have shot video professionally but never HD or with an array of lenses. The added still photo benefits are just gravy...

Pro Video, eh? Kool! Yeah, the video aspects with my range of lens sounds fun, but honestly, I'm still torn since I just read the DXO Labs reports on the sensors. (see my post minutes after yours)

Thanks for chiming in!
PuterPro

PuterPro said:

Another thought ... I have used DXO Labs software for several years
(great stuff that!) and I remembered someone mentioned they had
sensor charts, so I just ran a compare 20D vs 50D (the T1i / 500D is
too new for them to have data but the 50D supposedly has virtually
the same sensor) :

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Image-Quality-Database/Compare-cameras/ (appareil1) 178|0 (appareil2) 267|0 (onglet) 0 (brand) Canon (brand2) Canon

Click to expand...

PuterPro said:

This gets more complicated.

PuterPro

Click to expand...

Interesting site - but do you think your -eyes- will really see the differences in all these measurements? Looking for confirmation of a camera's quality from specs like these may not be relevant to the type of photography you do. I wonder if you did side-by-side comparisons of photos from each of these cameras - if you could see any difference. I doubt it.

--
Sam Kanter, NYC

--
Noise, etc - Yes, I DO think it can be seen.

After spending many hours reading reviews, many of which had side by side shots of the 50D vs the 40D, the 40D seems to have a touch less noise when viewed from the sensor data (noise suppression software turned off) but both are better than the 20D. The 50D it seems that they improved the noise suppression algorithms and it has a "gapless" microlens arrangement on the sensor.

In NORMAL shooting, not pixel peeping, the 50D edged out the 40D SLIGHTLY in noise and a slight improvement of sharpness. Thanks, I guess, to the Digic 4 processor's greater power and some software fine tuning.

After reading a lot of pre-release and early adopter reviews, I think I'll stick with my 20D for the moment and save my pennies for a 50D later this summer. All things considered (TM NPR {Grin} ) although the movie mode is seductive, I'd rather have the better camera, particularly burst rate, so I'll go with the 50D.

Thanks SO much to those who helped with their input, DP Review forums are the BEST!

PuterPro

Why would you buy the 50D after criticizing it in comparison to the 20D.

For my purposes, I believe the 500D is better than the 50D and cheaper to boot.

The 50D is good for moving objects, action photos which requires a high burst rate. But I don't believe that for other than this, the ability to shoot photos will be better than the 500D.

The quality of the photos will be about the same between the 500D and 50D.

The huge difference is in the ability to make movies and the ease you have between switching back and forth between still and video. Here the 500D has a much better interface than the 5D Mark II.

This increase the possibilities for creativity.

As a photographer, one can now nearly simultaneously document an event with video and stills. You can, for example, video people getting ready for a photo, then take the still, then show both. It gives depth to the story of a photo when you can see how it was created in video.

Previously, it is very difficult to go back and forth - instead, you needed two people to do this job.

The 500D makes this all much easier. So much easier.

Think what you can do at a wedding, graduation, birthday party, etc. etc.

You still need an external audio recorder (even with the 5D Mark II). But layering this on the video is fairly easy and is all part of post-processing in video - a whole new world.

At 15 megapixels, one has reached the end of the road in resolution for crop-DSLRs. At ISO 100, this is very difficult if not impossible to distinguish from higher resolution, far more expensive cameras in print sizes up to 20-inches wide, including medium format. Thus for landscapes, it is great for prosumers, consumers, etc.

At $799, it's a huge bargain. That's why I'll get one. It's almost a throwaway camera at this price. Thus I wouldn't worry so much when traveling with it.

PuterPro said:

--
Noise, etc - Yes, I DO think it can be seen.

After spending many hours reading reviews, many of which had side by
side shots of the 50D vs the 40D, the 40D seems to have a touch less
noise when viewed from the sensor data (noise suppression software
turned off) but both are better than the 20D. The 50D it seems that
they improved the noise suppression algorithms and it has a "gapless"
microlens arrangement on the sensor.

In NORMAL shooting, not pixel peeping, the 50D edged out the 40D
SLIGHTLY in noise and a slight improvement of sharpness. Thanks, I
guess, to the Digic 4 processor's greater power and some software
fine tuning.

After reading a lot of pre-release and early adopter reviews, I think
I'll stick with my 20D for the moment and save my pennies for a 50D
later this summer. All things considered (TM NPR {Grin} ) although
the movie mode is seductive, I'd rather have the better camera,
particularly burst rate, so I'll go with the 50D.

Thanks SO much to those who helped with their input, DP Review forums
are the BEST!

PuterPro

Click to expand...