How usable are these new LIVE view...

carlos roncatti · Apr 13, 2009

cameras for street photography? Sony, Olympus and now Nikon (will) have cameras with swivel LCDs. Are they fast to frame and take a picture or slow like the live view from the D300? thanks a lot...
--
self portrait:

Carlos Roncatti Bomfim

Jan Erik Stokke69103 · Apr 13, 2009

I have the Panasonic G1 and the swivel LCD is great. Nobody will notice that you take a picture when looking down. The G1 has a mechanical shutter, so it is not completely silent - but less loud than a DSLR.

The viewfinder is different than an optical DSLR, but not neccesarily worse. Actually I find it better than many DSLRs because it is large and bright and even works with glasses on. And I have live histogram on both the viewfinder and LCD.

Both the viewfinder and the LCD is able to show depth of field with a button that stops down the lens to the selected aperture. Big surprise: On the G1 the viewfinder/LCD doesnt get dark as on a DSLR.

The live view on D90 and 450D is very slow and does work for static objects. Live view on the G1 works for action photography. It is almost as quick as a regular DSLR.

In bright sunlight, the LCD is difficult to read. Thats the same with every LCD. But the viewfinder is still useful.
--
Jan Erik

Freely after John Lennon:
'Life is what happens around you while you´re busy making photos'

carlos roncatti · Apr 13, 2009

Does the viewfinder and lcd go blank between shots? thanks once more...

Jan Erik Stokke said:
I have the Panasonic G1 and the swivel LCD is great. Nobody will
notice that you take a picture when looking down. The G1 has a
mechanical shutter, so it is not completely silent - but less loud
than a DSLR.

The viewfinder is different than an optical DSLR, but not neccesarily
worse. Actually I find it better than many DSLRs because it is large
and bright and even works with glasses on. And I have live histogram
on both the viewfinder and LCD.

Both the viewfinder and the LCD is able to show depth of field with a
button that stops down the lens to the selected aperture. Big
surprise: On the G1 the viewfinder/LCD doesnt get dark as on a DSLR.

The live view on D90 and 450D is very slow and does work for static
objects. Live view on the G1 works for action photography. It is
almost as quick as a regular DSLR.

In bright sunlight, the LCD is difficult to read. Thats the same with
every LCD. But the viewfinder is still useful.
--
Jan Erik

Freely after John Lennon:
'Life is what happens around you while you´re busy making photos'

--
self portrait:

Carlos Roncatti Bomfim

Jan Erik Stokke69103 · Apr 13, 2009

The viewfinder and lcd goes black during the exposure.
--
Jan Erik

Freely after John Lennon:
'Life is what happens around you while you´re busy making photos'

fjs · Apr 13, 2009

I don't believe the Sony's go blank since they use a different live view system. I think they have 2 sensors to achieve this.

They currently have the most useable live view system as far as DSLR's go, IMO.

--
FJS

Erik Magnuson · Apr 13, 2009

fjs said:
I don't believe the Sony's go blank since they use a different live
view system.

They go blank because the mirror is up during the exposure. In fact, the Sonys interrupt the live view for longer then the competition during/after exposure. See the example in the movie here:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydslra350/page9.asp

I don't know if this can be shortened by changing the review time.

--
Erik

Erik Magnuson · Apr 13, 2009

Jan Erik Stokke said:
The live view on D90 and 450D is very slow and does work for static
objects.

The live view itself is somewhat fast on the 450D - it's the autofocus that is slow. Unlike the Nikon or Olympus implementations, the 450D does not have to drop the mirror before the exposure, so live view lag shutter lag is less than 1/2 those models.

--
Erik

carlos roncatti · Apr 13, 2009

So other than the G1, theres no usable live view for the original question?thanks...

Erik Magnuson said:
Jan Erik Stokke said:

The live view on D90 and 450D is very slow and does work for static
objects.

Click to expand...

The live view itself is somewhat fast on the 450D - it's the
autofocus that is slow. Unlike the Nikon or Olympus
implementations, the 450D does not have to drop the mirror before the
exposure, so live view lag shutter lag is less than 1/2 those models.

--
Erik

--
self portrait:

Carlos Roncatti Bomfim

Erik Magnuson · Apr 13, 2009

carlos roncatti said:
So other than the G1, theres no usable live view for the original
question?

What's "usable"? It's mostly a matter of which compromises you can learn to live with. Using I-R's timings, the Sony would be the fastest for AF+shutter lag in live view. The live view blackout time may be a little long, but does that matter? The G1 would be 2nd in AF speed with and fastest prefocused. Even the 450D would be "usable" in if scale focused: the LCD has a wide angle of view particularly from above - you can see enough to compose. What else do you need the camera to do?

--
Erik

Richard Weisgrau · Apr 13, 2009

I do not know what the D300 live view is like. My last Nikon was a D200.

I have shot film and digital with SLR's from Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Minolta, Contax, Leica and rangefinders from Contax and Leica.

I have recently purchased a Lumix G1 and a Canon G10.

The Lumix G1 is amazing. It took a few hours for me to get used to the Electronic Viewfinder, and it is quite a different experience from a DSLR viewing, but it is great in its own way. It is really bright in dim light since it intensifies the light electronically, and very accurate manual focus is easy due to the magnification it provides in that mode.

Live view blackout is no more problematic than that of the blackout of a DSLR when the mirror flips.

It is not much bigger than my Canon G10 Point and Shoot, and it is more versatile. It is looking like it will become my first choice. And I can adapt almost all of my other lenses to work with it.

Live view is great, but the other G1 features are equally as good.
--
Weisgrau

http://www.weisgrau.com

carlos roncatti · Apr 13, 2009

Uau.. you seem a little angry...usable is not to wait nearly four seconds to each shot like my former D300 ( mirror goes up etc, etc, etc...). If you read the original post ( street photography) than maybe you should be able to tell what is "usable". Once more thank you for the information...

Erik Magnuson said:
carlos roncatti said:

So other than the G1, theres no usable live view for the original
question?

Click to expand...

What's "usable"? It's mostly a matter of which compromises you can
learn to live with. Using I-R's timings, the Sony would be the
fastest for AF+shutter lag in live view. The live view blackout time
may be a little long, but does that matter? The G1 would be 2nd in
AF speed with and fastest prefocused. Even the 450D would be
"usable" in if scale focused: the LCD has a wide angle of view
particularly from above - you can see enough to compose. What else
do you need the camera to do?

--
Erik

--
self portrait:

Carlos Roncatti Bomfim

carlos roncatti · Apr 13, 2009

thanks a lot Richard. Im wacthing ebay everyday for a G1 now, but its the only brand (panasonic) that is harder to get it. Canon, Fuji and some others are pretty easy to find in Japan ebay stores...

Richard Weisgrau said:
I do not know what the D300 live view is like. My last Nikon was a
D200.

I have shot film and digital with SLR's from Nikon, Canon, Olympus,
Minolta, Contax, Leica and rangefinders from Contax and Leica.

I have recently purchased a Lumix G1 and a Canon G10.

The Lumix G1 is amazing. It took a few hours for me to get used to
the Electronic Viewfinder, and it is quite a different experience
from a DSLR viewing, but it is great in its own way. It is really
bright in dim light since it intensifies the light electronically,
and very accurate manual focus is easy due to the magnification it
provides in that mode.

Live view blackout is no more problematic than that of the blackout
of a DSLR when the mirror flips.

It is not much bigger than my Canon G10 Point and Shoot, and it is
more versatile. It is looking like it will become my first choice.
And I can adapt almost all of my other lenses to work with it.

Live view is great, but the other G1 features are equally as good.
--
Weisgrau

http://www.weisgrau.com

--
self portrait:

Carlos Roncatti Bomfim

FW Scharpf · Apr 14, 2009

Live View on the Canon 5DII is quite fast, but contrast-detect focusing is slow. Certainly not useable for street photography.

But it is great for landscapes, architecture and all static objects. The focusing area can be pinponted with the use of the joystick, and focusing is extremely precise.
--
Fritz

http://www.pbase.com/fwscharpf/galleries

Erik Magnuson · Apr 14, 2009

carlos roncatti said:
If you read the original post ( street photography) than
maybe you should be able to tell what is "usable".

There are many styles of street photography - surreptitious is only one of them. When I said "what else do you need the camera to do" I meant that other aspects of camera performance come into play as well. Like physical noise (e.g. the 450D has an annoying high-pitched shutter/mirror noise), or low light performance, or DOF control, or lens size. Optimizing just for live view may not give you the results you want.

--
Erik

fad · Apr 14, 2009

mostly while my 1dsMkIII was being serviced.

You can do real SP with the G1, as indeed you can with any camera. It's a lot of fun to use. The results can be fine. But it is not my first choice, by any means. Focus acquisition time, blackout between shots, low light capability and sensor size are the biggest negatives.

Shooting from waist height has its pros and cons. It is not eye level, so you have, if I can coin a term, compositional parallax. It's super for catching the nose cavities of standing subjects. It's very good, in a positive way, for seated subjects.

Someone staring at a waist finder is not invisible, by the way. A flip out lcd is pretty obvious. Invisibility should not be the goal in SP, anyway. Fitting in works much better.

--
Frank
http://www.sidewalkshadows.com

bkj · Apr 14, 2009

I like using live view for manual focusing when I shoot macro. Otherwise, I prefer the optical viewfinder.

Cheers

Jon Ragnarsson · Apr 14, 2009

I use live view more and more.
Everything on tripod (landscape, architecture) work, macro, candid, street.

For more casual shooting, I use the viewfinder... I find it better to "close off" the outside world by using the viewfinder.

--
http://www.4-3system.com
http://jonr.light.is

JetCrocodile · Apr 15, 2009

I can't say that I use Live view a lot but

during last 5 month there were some situations when it was quite a good addition and allowed me to produce some interesting images.

Regards,

Sven

--
http://www.jetcrocodile.smugmug.com/
http://picasaweb.google.com/jetcrocodile

Jouko · Apr 16, 2009

fastest LV with AF so far in the A-mode. I used it quite a lot for everything else but long teles handheld - with wide angles and short teles it worked fine. I think Oly made a bad decision leaving that system out from newer bodies.

The E3 version of LV is not even close to that in user comfort and speed. I dont know about E30 or E620, but I suppose they are closer to E3 than E330. I haven't tried mine in MF-mode, which could be faster - but without AF.

Good luck!
--
Jouko

'The best camera in the world is the one you have with you when you need it'

http://lehtokukka.smugmug.com/

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