distilled h2o to clean lenses

Is it safe to clean L lenses (and filters) using distilled water?
Any advice?
Thank you for the infos
--
Gallery: http://www.flickr.com/photos/7924511@N08/

won't hurt the glass or the coatings. but you want to be very, very careful not to use actual liquid, which could get trapped inside the lens and lead to the growth of fungus and other nasty things (which definitely can hurt the lens coatings). liquid water, even tiny amounts, will travel over the surface of the glass quickly and can be drawn into or through the mount.

the main reasons people don't tend to use water to clean lenses is that the crud on lenses often comes from fingerprints or other oily sources, and water doesn't do a very good job helping to get it off; also water takes a while to dry, and until it does the damp surface will trap any dust floating in the air and stick it to the glass. however, a very, very slightly damp lens cloth can be safe and very effective if you can't lay hands on alcohol-type lens cleaning fluid.

breathing (not blowing!) gently over a lens surface will generally produce just enough fog to help safely clean lenses in a pinch--which, basically, is distilled water (water vapor precipitated out of your breath). but if you blow, no matter how gently, you will expectorate tiny bits of spittle, and they will make the problem worse.

don't say i didn't warn you...

It's not a big deal, but just to clearify:

Water vapor in breath is not the same, or as clean, as destilled water. In a destillation the temperature of the liquid is raised to the boiling point, vaporized and thereafter condensed.

Does anyone have experience with cleaning their lenses with ethanol vs. propanol. Someone once told me that I should avoid ethanol because it could react with the coating surface. Does anyone know?

won't be as clean as water prepared to be used as distilled water ('probably', because it depends how clean the water you start with is), but the process is not that different. boiling water for distillation doesn't make it any cleaner, just speeds up the process.

distillation is very good at removing solid minerals, much less good at removing anything which evaporates, obviously. if you try distilling a mixture of water and alcohol, you'll condense out the same water and alcohol.

your breath will ordinarily contain traces of ammonia and various alcohols--which is part of why the technique is effective for cleaning glass--as well as viruses and bacteria and dust motes (all of which can also be found in distilled water). but the part that condenses on a cool surface is mostly pure water.

xtoph said:

won't be as clean as water prepared to be used as distilled water
('probably', because it depends how clean the water you start with
is), but the process is not that different. boiling water for
distillation doesn't make it any cleaner, just speeds up the process.

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Yes, thats right.

xtoph said:

distillation is very good at removing solid minerals, much less good
at removing anything which evaporates, obviously. if you try
distilling a mixture of water and alcohol, you'll condense out the
same water and alcohol.

Click to expand...

You could not be more wrong. Destillation is one of the only ways it is possible to seperate two mixed liquids. Water and alcohol is EXACTLY seperated this way! Look it up. Do a search.

xtoph said:

your breath will ordinarily contain traces of ammonia and various
alcohols--which is part of why the technique is effective for
cleaning glass--as well as viruses and bacteria and dust motes (all
of which can also be found in distilled water). but the part that
condenses on a cool surface is mostly pure water.

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I have no knowledge of how well breathe is for cleaning lenses. I was not commenting this part.

I have no problem discussing destillation with you, but this is really off topic.
In the interest of others, I think we should mail further on.

Most of the time I just clean my lenses by blowing them off. I walk in the woods a lot and sooner or later the lenses pickup really stubborn contamination. I think it is volatile tree oils and sap but it might also be pollen. Sooner or later there is usually a fingerprint or two. When it is time to clean the nasty gunk off a lens, I use lens cleaner. I believe all of these are alcohol based and most contain a high percentage of methanol. A small amount of cleaner should be applied to a microfiber cloth. For a really dirty lenses, it might be necesssary to wipe the lens several times using additional cleaner and unused areas of the cloth. Typically a slight film will be visible. This never seems to clean off. I don't think this has any effect on optical performance, but usually the huff method works easily to remove the film. All the gunk you remove from your lenses will end up on the microfiber cloth. I am obsessive about keeping the clothes clean. I hand wash them in soapy water, thoroughly rinse and hang to dry. I store them individually in plastic baggies.

jrkliny said:

Typically a slight film will be visible. This never seems to clean off. I don't think
this has any effect on optical performance, but usually the huff
method works easily to remove the film.

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The "film" you mention is some of the reason why I asked about the cleaning liquid. I just can't get the glass as clean as when it was brand new. Maybe I'm expecting too much. I can't really see it on my pictures but it bothers me, though.

We can debate about the relative purity of breath vapor and distilled water, but huffing on the lens really seems to work much better than trying to use a damp microfiber cloth.

Just huff, no cloth wiping?

You need a cloth. Just huff on the lens and wipe off with a very clean microfiber cloth. Usually with a try or two any traces of film will vanish. If not the lens may need some additional cleaning with alcohol. I suspect a lot of people see a minor film remaining because they do not have a very clean cloth.

you're certainly right about that.

NoPhotoFear said:

You could not be more wrong. Destillation is one of the only ways it
is possible to seperate two mixed liquids. Water and alcohol is
EXACTLY seperated this way! Look it up. Do a search.

Click to expand...

i don't need to look it up, i've done it myself. a still for separating alcohol from water is a different apparatus from one for making distilled water. the latter won't separate alcohol out, it just re-condenses everything that was evaporated.

perhaps you should look it up.

You need a liquid with some sort of a surfactant to breakup the oil on the lens. Distilled water won't do it, and a cloth just smears it around.

A proper lens cleaning solution and microfiber cloth will clean up oily fingerprints just fine.

Masnado said:

Is it safe to clean L lenses (and filters) using distilled water?
Any advice?
Thank you for the infos
--
Gallery: http://www.flickr.com/photos/7924511@N08/

Click to expand...

Using water to clean lenses is a waste of time and dangerous, however pure the water is ("distilled" water is what goes into car batteries - chemically pure water is "de-ionised" water produced by a different process).

1. Use a soft brush to remove any obvious particles (the LensPen has an excellent retractable brush, but make sure it is clean).

2. Use condensed breath (have a shot of Malt Whiskey first!) followed by a CLEAN microfibre cloth to gently wipe the lens in circular movement.

3. Any stubborn cr@p can be removed by using either pharmaceutical grade ethyl alcohol or the spectacle-cleaning spray available at opticians.

4. Do not use paper tissues (Kleenex) or kitchen towel.

5. The "business end" of the LensPen (carbon impregnated) can be very good on small lenses, but check that it is clean and does not contain a particle of grit - this will cause a lot of damage.

6. If cleaning is necessary in the field then just breath on the lens and use the bottom of your T-shirt to wipe it.

7. A dirty front element does not make any difference whatsoever to the image quality so you can ignore all of the above.

Colin
--
http://www.pbase.com/accentor

I use and recommend an eyeglass cleaner that can clean all types of lenses....spray a little on a micorfiber cloth and gently clean the lens. I know of the "Natural Eyes" brand of cleaner..can be purchased in a small size for just a few dollars. Always carry it in my camera bag. Know there are other brands.
just my 2 cents...
Rick
--
http://www.eyeu.smugmug.com

xtoph said:

i don't need to look it up, i've done it myself. a still for
separating alcohol from water is a different apparatus from one for
making distilled water. the latter won't separate alcohol out, it
just re-condenses everything that was evaporated.

perhaps you should look it up.

Click to expand...

When you don't know the difference between what is called a chemical operation and what is called an apparatus, this is way over your head.

In the previous posts you wrote destillation. Don't confuse yourself with terms you do not understand.

A destillation of mixed solvents does not automatic seperate the components but fractioning the destillate, does. How do you think for example whisky is made.

This is so basic konwledge, I don't have to look it up.
Oh by the way, I'm a chemical engineer, I do this for a living.

first, it is spelled 'distilled' not 'destilled' , and i certainly never wrote the latter (which is not even a word), though you've been quite consistent.

second, look up 'still' in the dictionary and you will find it is in fact an apparatus--a noun--not a chemical process.

third, even distillation, which is a process, is a physical process, not a chemical one.

fourth, if you want to bandy irrelevant qualifications around, i have a phd. so what? titles doesn't make a fact more true, or less true--though it is rather embarrassing for you as a chemical engineer not to know the difference between still, distil, 'destil', and chemical vs physical reactions. but this conversation is certainly not 'over my head'.

fifth, you wrote

NoPhotoFear said:

A destillation of mixed solvents does not
automatic seperate the components but
fractioning the destillate, does. How do you
think for example whisky is made.

Click to expand...

which is exactly what i already pointed out in the previous posts--and you failed to recognize. perhaps english is not your native language, in which case your confusion is understandable, but it's your reading comprehension (and poor writing skills) which are on display here.

you might want to check your basic facts and comprehension before you pick an argument in the future.

Both are alcohols and have only a slightly different molecular structure therefore i presume both will have the same effect on the lens coating.

However without knowing what the coatings are on the lens I cannot say for certain. I'm not even sure if Canon, Nikon, Zeiss, Sigma etc... would even publish such details without having extensive legal cover to stop them reaching competitors.

Graeme

--
Gear in profile

this is what Canon says:

Step 1 Carefully blow off any dust or dirt, using a blower brush or (very carefully!) compressed air.

Step 2 Place a drop of lens cleaning fluid on a clean piece of lens cleaning tissue, or blow gently on the lens so that moisture condenses on its surface.

Step 3 Gently wipe the lens surface from the edges toward the center of the lens, with a lifting rather than rubbing action.

A micro-fiber cleaning cloth is a good alternative to lens tissue, and requires no lens cleaning fluid.

pretty simple, concise and the mfr' direct directions.
--
Dogratty

Lens coatings are a lot tougher than people give them credit for. I once broke a tuning peg off a guitar with the front element of my Leica 19. There was some paint transfer from the peg, but it cleaned up with zero coating damage.

The real key to damage-free lens cleaning is to not press hard on grit. You can have the fanciest fluid and the fanciest cloth, but if you scrub a piece of grit around the front element you're still screwed.

Conversely, spit and tee shirt work great as long as you do it in stages of increasing intensity. This way by the time you get to "press hard to remove stubborn stuff" anything that might scratch has been removed on earlier passes.

Watch out for the edge between the glass and the body--this seems to a be a favorite place for grit to hide out.

xtoph said:

second, look up 'still' in the dictionary and you will find it is in
fact an apparatus--a noun--not a chemical process.

third, even distillation, which is a process, is a physical process,
not a chemical one.

fourth, if you want to bandy irrelevant qualifications around, i have
a phd. so what? titles doesn't make a fact more true, or less
true--though it is rather embarrassing for you as a chemical engineer
not to know the difference between still, distil, 'destil', and
chemical vs physical reactions. but this conversation is certainly
not 'over my head'.

fifth, you wrote

xtoph said:

A destillation of mixed solvents does not
automatic seperate the components but
fractioning the destillate, does. How do you
think for example whisky is made.

Click to expand...

which is exactly what i already pointed out in the previous
posts--and you failed to recognize. perhaps english is not your
native language, in which case your confusion is understandable, but
it's your reading comprehension (and poor writing skills) which are
on display here.

you might want to check your basic facts and comprehension before you
pick an argument in the future.

Click to expand...

Ok, you are right, english in not my native language. I have mispelled some things and some is lost in my translation. For that, I apologize.

By chemical operation, I ment unit operation. And of course, the destil -distil part... I admit your spelling is the right one.

I will kindly ask you to disregard the mispelling I have done in the previous posts (and perhaps the following) and comment the following:

You wrote:

"if you try distilling a mixture of water and alcohol, you'll condense out the same water and alcohol."

This is not simply true and what apparatus is used is not what we are discussing (and not the point) - because you wrote "distilling".

Water and alcohol is exactly seperated by distillation. If you think otherwise, explain what unit operation is then used?