S5 Pro 12MP resolution ....

Just a little experiment/demo. Nothing exciting in the way of photography.

Full scene comes first, then true 100% crop.

Yeah, the crop in #1 shows some stair-stepping jaggies in the finer details, but the tree trunk looks pretty good! In a good-sized print, I doubt any of the flaws would be noticeable.

I don't know ... doesn't seem to me to be a resolution-challenged camera. And I haven't even been using the best glass. Time to get a 17-55 f/2.8, I think





Second sample:





--
SteveG
'When love and skill work together, expect a masterpiece.'
— Found in a Chinese Fortune Cookie
http://www.stephenmichaelgarey.com

veroman said:

Full scene comes first, then true 100% crop.

Yeah, the crop in #1 shows some stair-stepping jaggies in the finer
details, but the tree trunk looks pretty good! In a good-sized print,
I doubt any of the flaws would be noticeable.

Click to expand...

Not sure what you're trying to prove (and the chromatic aberration in the first sample is at a level I'd find unacceptable in a print, BTW). The S5 Pro has 6mp resolution, period. We can upsample any 6mp camera to 12mp and probably get a good print, assuming we did everything else right.

But one of the differences that happens when you have more resolution is that local contrast and edge acuity is improved (assuming that we're printing at the same size as the lower resolution camera). This is the same thing we used to talk about with film in the old 35mm versus MF debate. Can you create a nice looking picture with a 35mm film body? Yes. Now take the same picture with a MF body and equivalent lens. Better? Yes.

Olympus has publicly been on the "12mp is enough" bandwagon lately. Indeed, yes, if you're not going bigger than what a desktop inkjet can produce, 12mp is probably enough pixels to make a nice looking print. But this is basically separating commodity (lowest common denominator for the masses) from quality (best possible image). I would go further than Olympus (though perhaps they'll catch up to me ; ) and say that you don't need more than 12mp AND you don't need a DSLR. Indeed, that's part of what the G1 excitement was about, and what Olympus' upcoming m4/3 interchangeable lens compact camera should also accomplish (which is why they'll catch up to me ; ). Basically, between a G1 and a D700 the primary difference should only be dynamic range (due to photosite size), though in actuality there are some other slight differences (and of course, the things that are different in the bodies).

I think people have to figure out (if they haven't already) if they're a commodity shooter (e.g. negative film from a compact or low-end SLR printed at the one-hour processing place) or a serious shooter (medium format black-and-white or perhaps pro Velvia printed by hand).

--
Thom Hogan
author, Complete Guides to Nikon bodies (19 and counting)
http://www.bythom.com

the title should probably read "S5 Pro 12MP output"; and these are downright horrible. while the s5 is capable of resolving quite more than one would expect from a 6mp camera, these wouldn't contain any less detail at 6mp.

miso kaco said:

the title should probably read "S5 Pro 12MP output"; and these are
downright horrible. while the s5 is capable of resolving quite more
than one would expect from a 6mp camera, these wouldn't contain any
less detail at 6mp.

Click to expand...

Horrible? I don't know. I've not gotten that kind of output from my uprezzed 6MP Canon 10D or for sure my old Olympus E-1.

Thom Hogan asked me what my pics were "trying to prove." Well, nothing really ... except that an interpolated 12MP Fuji S5 Pro image is quite a bit better than an interpolated 6MP image from any other 6MP camera, and that the 12MP output from the S5 ain't bad ... and ain't horrible, either.

Maybe the pics I posted aren't the best examples of the cameras 12MP output, I'll grant you that. My other test pics posted here were way better.

--
SteveG
'When love and skill work together, expect a masterpiece.'
— Found in a Chinese Fortune Cookie
http://www.stephenmichaelgarey.com

Thom Hogan said:

Olympus has publicly been on the "12mp is enough" bandwagon lately.
Indeed, yes, if you're not going bigger than what a desktop inkjet
can produce, 12mp is probably enough pixels to make a nice looking
print. But this is basically separating commodity (lowest common
denominator for the masses) from quality (best possible image). I
would go further than Olympus (though perhaps they'll catch up to me
; ) and say that you don't need more than 12mp AND you don't need a
DSLR. Indeed, that's part of what the G1 excitement was about, and
what Olympus' upcoming m4/3 interchangeable lens compact camera
should also accomplish (which is why they'll catch up to me ; ).
Basically, between a G1 and a D700 the primary difference should only
be dynamic range (due to photosite size), though in actuality there
are some other slight differences (and of course, the things that are
different in the bodies).

I think people have to figure out (if they haven't already) if
they're a commodity shooter (e.g. negative film from a compact or
low-end SLR printed at the one-hour processing place) or a serious
shooter (medium format black-and-white or perhaps pro Velvia printed
by hand).

Click to expand...

This is all well-put, Thom. Never heard it spelled out so clearly and simply. Sounds like good material for an long and deep article on your web site. I would add, however, that there are those of us who are both commodity shooters AND serious shooters (maybe most of us?). This is why I also own and use a Canon 1Ds II and am tempted to move in the direction of the 1Ds III or 5D II.

But since I make a living at photography, when I'm just out in the world to enjoy myself and don't want to be as painstaking as when I shoot interiors, cameras like the Fuji S5, Canon G10 or the G1 you mentioned (which I've not seen or held) are a real blessing. They simply make it easier to take reasonably good pictures and once in a while some great ones. My Canon 5D, though relatively light and of modest size, needs my full attention and a lot of effort if I'm going to get a keeper, while the S5 Pro is often just a shutter click away from one. My D2x, which I have some regret selling, was MUCH easier and faster to use than my 5D. LOTS of keepers with that camera.

My REALLY serious side wants a medium format digital that can give me what I got with my old Mamiya 6. But I can't afford one of those beauties and, besides, they're lousy for indoor, ambient light stuff, which I do a lot of.

My commodity side is actually still searching, but for now the S5 is proving to be a good find, as is the S2. Lots of fun, those cameras, and really nice output for what are essentially quickie captures.

--
SteveG
'When love and skill work together, expect a masterpiece.'
— Found in a Chinese Fortune Cookie
http://www.stephenmichaelgarey.com

Just tiresome rubbish!! It sounds like you only shoot Jpeg...

I own and use both the D200 and S3/S5's and use them professionally..the S5 takes the D200 on virtually all fronts..colour, DR, noise..which is not to say I don't like the D200 because it is a competent camera with good colour in "Neutral" and produces great results at relatively low iso's and in not too high contrast situations...and Oh yes, did say the S5 resolves virtually all the fine detail achievable from the D200 and more at high iso's..

Actually I am getting sick and tired of reading ill informed rubbish about the S5...have you actually got one..do you use one..properly? I have been a professional wedding photographer for over 25 years and come from Hasselblad film cameras...my Fuji S5 does everything that kit ever did, up to A3+

And as for the thread regarding Mf film cameras, the Mamiya 6, which is a great camera, I would still expect a D700 or any 12mp FF in real terms to produce results every bit on par with any MF film camera...given that most used colour negative and were not scanned on a Flextight..or printed optically .

Certainly as far as 35mm is concerned even an ordinary 6mp camera will produce much cleaner results than film ever did...unless may be you always shoot 50asa tranny on a tripod !!

veroman said:

nothing really ... except that an interpolated 12MP Fuji S5 Pro image
is quite a bit better than an interpolated 6MP image from any other
6MP camera,

Click to expand...

It should be almost exactly as good as 12mp upsized from an 8mp camera on the horizontal and vertical axis. That stairstepping you saw? The 6mp camera wouldn't have it (or would have less of it on the uprez). The problem I have is that it isn't as good as a real 12mp camera ; ).

--
Thom Hogan
author, Complete Guides to Nikon bodies (19 and counting)
http://www.bythom.com

Thom Hogan said:

The problem I have is that it isn't as good as a real 12mp camera ; )

Click to expand...

Oh, agreed. Would never argue that one. My old 1Ds Mark 1 (11.1MP) easily out-resolves the S5. Still, sans pixel peeping at 100%, the S5 holds its own against some of the bigger MPs out there when printing ink jet or reproducing with a fine screen. Mix this quality in with the S5's other qualities, some of which are unique, and you have one very fine and very unusual 6MP camera, don't you think?

I have a feeling that when production stops on this one (maybe it already has), the used market pricing will hold its own for quite some time, similar to the way the Leica Digilux 2 still fetches good money when and if in good condition.

--
SteveG
'When love and skill work together, expect a masterpiece.'
— Found in a Chinese Fortune Cookie
http://www.stephenmichaelgarey.com

Vernon,

I won't comment about your examples. Instead I would ask you to think about how your D2x would have resolved that scene. We both know the S5 will never resolve what the D2x does. Still not sure how film got drug into this.

We didn't buy the S5 for resolution, but for dynamic range and color.

--
Charles
My family images are at http://www.stakeman.smugmug.com
Be sure of your subject.
Never, force the shot.

I agree . I have a D2x a G1 and an S3 and S5. Using similar class glass (16-85 on the F mounts, and the wide kit lenses for the Panny and my previous E-510). I have in the past shot comparisons at the same camera and lens settings.

I find that the Fujis have about equal resolution to the Olympus(even when I convert raw files with Hyperutility and Master respectively). The D2x and G1 have very similar levals of detail, and are noticibly better than the others.

Obviiously this type of testing is far from rigorous, but reasonably practical in the "real World" ( I don't have pro level glass for the Oly and Panny sytems)

That having been said, I have printed S5 files as large as 20" x30" and had very discriminating art consultants happily purchase them for their clients.

I have always gravitated to the Fuji files despite their resolution disadvantage. Not sure why. I guess they just look better to me.



Henry F. Smith Jr
Http: www.glensummitimage.com

H Smith said:

I have always gravitated to the Fuji files despite their resolution
disadvantage. Not sure why. I guess they just look better to me.

Click to expand...

I guess this just about sums it up for many S5 users, myself included. Resolution is just one measure of a camera's (or len's) quality. For every day shooting, I do not hesitate to trade off ultimate sharpness, acuity and resolution of fine detail for Fuji's special "look," DR and color. Its files just look better to me, too....

--
SteveG
'When love and skill work together, expect a masterpiece.'
— Found in a Chinese Fortune Cookie
http://www.stephenmichaelgarey.com

CWilt said:

Vernon,

I won't comment about your examples. Instead I would ask you to think
about how your D2x would have resolved that scene. We both know the
S5 will never resolve what the D2x does. Still not sure how film got
drug into this.

We didn't buy the S5 for resolution, but for dynamic range and color.

Click to expand...

Understood. But it ain't a bad resolver, either. (And my member name is "veroman" in honor of Vero Beach, Florida ... not "vernon").

--
SteveG
'When love and skill work together, expect a masterpiece.'
— Found in a Chinese Fortune Cookie
http://www.stephenmichaelgarey.com

veroman said:

Understood. But it ain't a bad resolver, either.

Click to expand...

I never said it was either. ;-)

Its rare that the S5 is not enough. Next step is the D2x for me. Haven't found a reason to let go of it yet. When all else fails I have my Linhof.

veroman said:

(And my member name is "veroman" in honor of Vero Beach, Florida ... not
"vernon").

Click to expand...

Terribly sorry about that. It was not on purpose. :-(

--
Charles
My family images are at http://www.stakeman.smugmug.com
Be sure of your subject.
Never, force the shot.

For the jaggies, try what Oldmaster suggested before - apply the B-Spline interpolation on the file and the jaggies become somewhat more subdued. I tried it with the free Irfanview program, and it worked to some extent.

--
http://www.pbase.com/lhlim

Thom Hogan said:

I think people have to figure out (if they haven't already) if
they're a commodity shooter (e.g. negative film from a compact or
low-end SLR printed at the one-hour processing place) or a serious
shooter (medium format black-and-white or perhaps pro Velvia printed
by hand).

Click to expand...

I think your last paragraph is wrong and believe that many others would agree. Trying to say that art is not produced by "low-end" equipment sounds like its double rotating and counter intuitive.

--
Charles
My family images are at http://www.stakeman.smugmug.com
Be sure of your subject.
Never, force the shot.

Thom Hogan said:

I think people have to figure out (if they haven't already) if
they're a commodity shooter (e.g. negative film from a compact or
low-end SLR printed at the one-hour processing place) or a serious
shooter (medium format black-and-white or perhaps pro Velvia printed
by hand).

Click to expand...

Err I'm not sure where I fit, Nikon F then F2 and FM2n (never had a autofocus Nikon till my first DSLR), Tri-X developed in D76 1+1 printed 16"x12" in my own darkroom, colour prints also 16"x12" also printed by me in my own darkroom (both from negative and slide). Slides shot on Kodachrome 25 or Extachrome if I wanted a faster film. Laterly before I went digital I shot a lot of colour neg on Gold100 ;-( And now I print max of A3+ on a desktop injet (HP B9180)

Thom Hogan said:

--
Thom Hogan
author, Complete Guides to Nikon bodies (19 and counting)
http://www.bythom.com

Click to expand...

--
Dave
http://www.rosser.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
http://www.pbase.com/dgrosser

long time no see hope you are keeping well......I dont get the time to get here much these days so missed your posts. Anyway I'm glad you've discovered the S5 its a fine camera....its one of those cameras that punches above its weight. Shot alongside our D700's its lacking in resolution but folks just love the prints from the S5....to be fair we've never had anyone say they dont like the quality of image from the S5 and we've printed it pretty big.

The D700 is a great allrounder...I guess its Nikons version of an updated 5D....I love it for its allaround capability but still love the colours and DR I get from our S5's.

I typically shoot a wedding with a D700 with short telephoto and an S5 with a wide angle.....Sharron shoots an S5 with a 60mm macro picking off head shots and suchlike......it works very well for us.

Although I normally shoot all the sports stuff with 1d series canons I have taken the S5 to a few gym shoots now and got some nice available light shots....especially good when sunlight is streaming thru a window because of the DR of the S5.

Anyway have fun and I'll keep an eye for your future posts.
best
--
Geoff_R

'Always look on the bright side of life...'
http://www.fightwireimages.com
http://www.sportsshooter.com/members.html?id=7656

Geoff_R said:

long time no see hope you are keeping well......I dont get the
time to get here much these days so missed your posts. Anyway I'm
glad you've discovered the S5 its a fine camera....its one of those
cameras that punches above its weight. Shot alongside our D700's its
lacking in resolution but folks just love the prints from the
S5....to be fair we've never had anyone say they dont like the
quality of image from the S5 and we've printed it pretty big.

The D700 is a great allrounder...I guess its Nikons version of an
updated 5D....I love it for its allaround capability but still love
the colours and DR I get from our S5's.

I typically shoot a wedding with a D700 with short telephoto and an
S5 with a wide angle.....Sharron shoots an S5 with a 60mm macro
picking off head shots and suchlike......it works very well for us.

Although I normally shoot all the sports stuff with 1d series canons
I have taken the S5 to a few gym shoots now and got some nice
available light shots....especially good when sunlight is streaming
thru a window because of the DR of the S5.

Anyway have fun and I'll keep an eye for your future posts.
best

Click to expand...

Look time no see, indeed. I didn't know you were shooting with an S5 (among other cameras). Do you still use your Sigma?

If you've read through some of my posts, you can see I'm new to the Fuji way of photography. I don't know what took me so long. I've pretty much experimented with everything else out there .... well, not EVERYTHING. Haven't used a Pentax or Sony or Leica M8. I do enjoy the S5. I enjoy the S2 as well. Terrific little camera, though short on features and not quite the resolver the S5 is.

Anyway ... and as always ... good to hear from you. The D700 sounds great. After a fling with a D2x (loved, loved, loved that machine!), I've been looking into some of the newer Nikons, ie D300 and D700 ... plus I'm considering going back to a D2x, the "s" version. We shall see. I'll look forward to your posts as well.

Regards,
--
SteveG
'When love and skill work together, expect a masterpiece.'
— Found in a Chinese Fortune Cookie
http://www.stephenmichaelgarey.com

i do have one and use it professionally. i also know a thing or two about the digital imaging thing. i assume that you either misunderstood my post or replied to someone else's post...

CWilt said:

Thom Hogan said:

I think people have to figure out (if they haven't already) if
they're a commodity shooter (e.g. negative film from a compact or
low-end SLR printed at the one-hour processing place) or a serious
shooter (medium format black-and-white or perhaps pro Velvia printed
by hand).

Click to expand...

I think your last paragraph is wrong and believe that many others
would agree. Trying to say that art is not produced by "low-end"
equipment sounds like its double rotating and counter intuitive.

Click to expand...

I said no such thing. I simply spoke to the acquisition preferences of different types of shooters. Perhaps you're thinking that only a "serious shooter" can create art or even interesting photos. I wouldn't agree.

--
Thom Hogan
author, Complete Guides to Nikon bodies (19 and counting)
http://www.bythom.com