Focus screens for D700?

Wrong foot this morning?
I was pretty sure it was an April fools joke. Robert's arrogance and rudeness sounds so much a caricature of an "actual" rude person that I was pretty sure it was just an act.

I read about 4 lines of the first part of his latest multi-part rant, just enough to see if he were "manning up" enough to apologize for his conduct.

No such luck.
-Do you want some coffee this morning, honey?
-I'll have a cup of tea, please.
-Honey, I asked a direct yes/no question, how does "do you want some
coffee this morning, honey" become "what do you want to drink this
morning, honey"? I don't understand why you couldn't just say "no, I
don't want coffee this morning thank you." My question was direct,
clear and grammatically correct, and a simple "no" was the correct
response, as you obviously didn't want coffee this morning.
  • But...
-No, buts, why is this so hard to understand? The professors all
agree that I asked the question in a correct, comprehensive and
unambiguous manner and...
Exactly.

He failed at the basic social level of communication. Even monkeys can socialize.

--
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.

Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
You are exactly correct, which is why I have not and will not bother to read any more replies up above. :-)
 
That's a good bit of research! I didn't know there were other brands, other than Katz Eye. It looks like Brightscreen offers a much larger selection of varieties than Katz Eye; is Brightscreen a reputable, quality product?

...Getting off-topic a bit more, but after seeing Brightscreen's lineup--specifically, their grid screen--I wonder why I don't see many focus screens with grids that divide the image into thirds. You know, to help with the "rule of thirds" composition. I've seen quarters, and I've seen a lot more lines, like Brightscreen's, which I guess is good for architecture maybe? I don't know, I used to look into Canon's offerings (Canon, unlike Nikon, makes focus screens for more than just their top-end models), and even they, if I remember correctly, didn't have any grid screens dividing into thirds.
 
Now that we are back to "normal" forum participation.....
Katzeye will also etch grids like "rule of thirds" on your screen.
but a real simple inexpensive solution is a sharpie on the lcd screen protector.
you could also do one for 5/4 ( portraits) etc.
nice reference check without adding viewfinder marks.

dale
--
“I don’t know what young means, you’re alive or not” HCB

http://www.flickr.com/photos/heydale
 
Let me ask you something: if you asked for directions to a person on the street like: "does this road go to location A" and the response is: "no but you may take such and such road to go to location A", I hope that you will not give the same inane reply as you did here. Depending on the interlocutor, you may be in some difficulty.
ALSO, these fora are for everyone in the hope that we may all learn from them.

I found the answer educational as I was not aware of Katseys or what ever. This is how fora get interesting and not inanely polemical and petulant.
Good luck.
--
Rocco Galatioto
 
Let me ask you something: if you asked for directions to a person on
the street like: "does this road go to location A" and the response
is: "no but you may take such and such road to go to location A", I
hope that you will not give the same inane reply as you did here.
That's a classic literal thinking joke.

Q - Do you know what time it is.
A - Yes.
(awkward pause)
Depending on the interlocutor, you may be in some difficulty.
ALSO, these fora are for everyone in the hope that we may all learn
from them.
I found the answer educational as I was not aware of Katseys or what
ever. This is how fora get interesting and not inanely polemical and
petulant.
Exactly. The conversations grow beyond the original topic. Subjects expand, and sometimes change entirely. That's conversation. I've been on forums where where a person owns the thread they start, and can moderate that thread (delete posts, lock the thread, have new posts held and not displayed until approved, etc). I find the average person very ill suited to perform such moderation, and that feature usually gets turned off after a while.

--
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.

Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
I understand what you're saying.

Your analogy in invalid because it doesn't exactly relate to my original post. Here's a more accurate one, using your example: If I ask a person on the street, "Does this road go to Point A? I already know such-and-such other road goes there," and the person on the street replies, "Yes, such-and-such other road goes there," then I would think to myself something I probably shouldn't post here, and walk away in search of a more intelligent person.

The important thing is that 99% of the time I will think that thought to myself and not say anything out loud. But each person has his or her own "buttons", things that may seem silly to most everyone else but really annoy that person. Having a different question answered other than the one I asked is one of mine. Eventually, the frustration does build up to the point where I can hold back from making a smart-ass comment. It's not that I'm being intentionally rude or mean or am like that all the time. So, yes, I do need to relax, but I'm sure you have your "buttons" that, if pushed hard enough or often enough, will push you into regrettably being more rude or mean than is typical for you.

(Just for clarity, I'll point out that it was not merely the one or two replies early on this thread that pushed me past that point; there was much, much more to it than that, most of it from Real Life, and unfortunately it just happened to be here that the final straw flipped me out.)

In any event, I am glad you learned something, and I apologize for any behavior on my part which may have detracted from a pleasing and/or educational experience, which is, after all, why we come here in the first place.
--
Let me ask you something: if you asked for directions to a person on
the street like: "does this road go to location A" and the response
is: "no but you may take such and such road to go to location A", I
hope that you will not give the same inane reply as you did here.
Depending on the interlocutor, you may be in some difficulty.
ALSO, these fora are for everyone in the hope that we may all learn
from them.
I found the answer educational as I was not aware of Katseys or what
ever. This is how fora get interesting and not inanely polemical and
petulant.
Good luck.
--
Rocco Galatioto
 
But the Sharpie lines on the LCD screen protector would only be useful after the shot, not while actually taking it, unless you use the live view mode, right?

I guess it's not really that hard to estimate the the rule-of-thirds lines in the viewfinder when taking the picture, I mean it's usually pretty easy to get close enough for this "rule". I'd rather have a focus screen with no lines, though, than one with some other, such as fourths or the denser architectural grid, if normal composition was my intent, because other lines would probably confuse and throw off my ability to estimate the actual thirds lines. So I'd probably just stick with clear, depending on how much the custom lines cost.
 
i will go back to graduate school. Your insistence on this whole nonsensical topic proves my point.
BTW you are right as always. There, now you feel better.

--
Rocco Galatioto
 
Correct,
live view or verification is what you get with the "Sharpie" approach.

I have used grid lines for years "E" screens on my "F3" bodies and similar on my FM2 bodies. I now use the "on demand" grids in my D200 viewfinder.

I honestly find the rule of thirds "close" but not quite right. The actual Golden mean isn't quite 1/3 on a 3-2 aspect ratio.

So I use the grid primarily for horizontal and vertical alignment. I tend to place my "almost third" close to the grid line just outside of where a "real" one third is.

Like most "rules" you have to use your own judgment for what looks "right" when you click the shutter.

For landscapes, I have started using an old red cokin filter masked to a 3-2 frame. I then used a sharpie for 1/3 grid lines. when judging a scene, before picking up the camera I can look through the filter and place subject areas on the grid based on light/dark mass rather than the subject itself. It enables one to view the scene for its strictly graphic content independent of subject or color. It is a technique used by "plein air" landscape artists.
Just one other thing to do to make you stop and think.

dale
--
“I don’t know what young means, you’re alive or not” HCB

http://www.flickr.com/photos/heydale
 
That is a very intriguing idea about using the red filter in the way you described. I had read about why red filters are often used in B&W landscape photography, but it never occurred to me that just looking through one could help to evaluate the scene. I'm making a note of this concept.

I'm interested to learn more about what you were talking about in regards to the 3:2 and golden aspect, because I don't really understand too much about that. (Because that's a completely new subject, one that perhaps might be useful to a great many more people than will likely make it this far down in this particular thread, may I suggest a new thread about that? If you do, please post a link to it here in case I otherwise miss it.)

Thanks!
 
You are exactly correct, which is why I have not and will not bother
to read any more replies up above. :-)
--
Justin. Joe was correct in his reply, I was talking to mounir75.

"(except for from the off-brand Katzeye I think)...". This was in your original question, correct. Being the bright guy you are I thought this would answer the question. The question would no longer be a question, it would be updated to read (except for from the off-brand Katzeye). Your lenght of time as a member and the number of posts you made in this forum versus the other forums led me to believe your a phony. I would not have wasted my time answering your post but for the fact that I was giving information to mounir75. If the job in your profile is true then my friend I think you have a touch of PTSD and should take some time off before you push an accident victim out the back of the ambulance because he/she did not answer your question with a yes/no when asked if the Bowie knief sticking out of his/her head hurts.

Waiting for your pontification and analysis.

--
(i)lmtfa added to amino acid for molecular biological studies
 
I won't start a thread because it will take more than a cursory statement to address it appropriately.

Mathematically the "golden mean" is based on a fibonacci sequence and actually works out to 3.2:2 aspect ratio.
There is tons of info if you google it but here is a good start.
http://fotogenetic.dearingfilm.com/golden_rectangle.html

have fun.

by the way, the two best composition books I have found are " the photographer's eye" by Michael Freeman and "mastering composition" by Ian Roberts. The Roberts book is for painters but it a superb explanation of geometric composition.

Early on, it is said that HCB used a "Vidom" viewfinder on his early Leicas he liked that it inverted the image so that he could view it first as a graphic scene independent of the main subject

--
“I don’t know what young means, you’re alive or not” HCB

http://www.flickr.com/photos/heydale
 
If I misunderstood what your reply was in reply to, I apologize.

As for my job and PTSD, I have a very boring, fairly stress-free job that a trained monkey could do. Except it would probably cost them more to train, keep, and feed the monkey.
 
You are exactly correct, which is why I have not and will not bother
to read any more replies up above. :-)
Justin. Joe was correct in his reply, I was talking to mounir75.

"(except for from the off-brand Katzeye I think)...". This was in
your original question, correct. Being the bright guy you are I
thought this would answer the question. The question would no longer
be a question, it would be updated to read (except for from the
off-brand Katzeye). Your lenght of time as a member and the number of
posts you made in this forum versus the other forums led me to
believe your a phony.
I came to a similar conclusion, as I mentioned elsewhere in this thread, that he was playing an April fool's joke. One encounters intolerant and rude people on a daily basis on the internet, but Justin seems more like a caricature of such than a real one. Think Jim Carey...

I had also considered that he might have the extreme literalness and lack of socialization characteristic of autism spectrum disorders, but I have an insider perspective on that, and it still doesn't ring true.
I would not have wasted my time answering your
post but for the fact that I was giving information to mounir75.
That's one of the reasons I often try to give helpful responses to posts from known trolls, to try to turn the conversation useful and help the other participants, despite the troll.
If
the job in your profile is true then my friend I think you have a
touch of PTSD and should take some time off before you push an
accident victim out the back of the ambulance because he/she did not
answer your question with a yes/no when asked if the Bowie knief
sticking out of his/her head hurts.

Waiting for your pontification and analysis.
;)

--
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.

Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
I have used grid lines for years "E" screens on my "F3" bodies and
similar on my FM2 bodies. I now use the "on demand" grids in my D200
viewfinder.
Handy feature, that.

I also learned, young, how to take a screen and scribe my own lines with a carbide scribe or a Lunzer diamond scribe. I like to add a light 8x10 crop line set to the screen.

E screens aren't really rule of thirds, they're squares, 4x6 pattern (3 and 5 lines) so you get ROT only on the horizontal.
I honestly find the rule of thirds "close" but not quite right. The
actual Golden mean isn't quite 1/3 on a 3-2 aspect ratio.
Hey Dale!

The "golden ratio" is different from the "rule of thirds". They both have their origins in the superstitious veneration of mathematics that is similar to human visual processing (optical psychophysics) , but they are two distinct phenomena. Think about the "golden ratio" defining a pleasant aspect ratio for the "box" or "Frame" of a photograph, and the "rule of thirds" determining how we place objects in the box, whether or not the box has a golden ratio shape.

Phi, the golden ratio
============

Phi, (sqrt(5)-1) 2, about 1.618, is often known as the golden ratio, golden section, golden mean, or divine proportion. It has its origins in the shape of the human visual field. We find rectangles of that aspect ratio appealing because that is how the eyes and brain scan a scene. Horizontal photographs in that ratio can be "entered", we can easily process them as a "scene" itself, instead of treating the photograph as merely an "object". Since it's a shape we process well, it also works out wonderfully in architecture, a golden ratio building can become a visual scene in its own right, instead of being an object in a larger scene, so it's wonderful for an important building that should "capture" our attention.

The ancients (especially the Greeks) were very fond of the concept of interesting and important numbers that gave us views into the nature of the universe. They knew how to calculate many numbers, such as phi (around 1.618), e (2.718), pi (3.1416). When one of these "magic" numbers happened to fall close to a psychophysical or biological proportion, they took it as a sign.

The Rule of Thirds
===========

The rule of thirds is also often erroneously called the "golden mean" or "golden section". It also relates to human visual processing. Humans are (or were created to resemble) highly evolved hunter/gatherers. We have two modes of operation, "scan" and "lock". Basically, we are designed to continually scan a scene, analyzing all the interesting details, and taking short "fixes" on interesting features. Walking, we scan for hazards that might trip us, obstacles to avoid, predators, prey, food sources, the other members of our tribe, possible mates, etc.

We do not stop scanning until we see something so important that it needs our complete attention. That's when we lock and center, and prepare a reaction (fight or flight, court a mate, eat, defend or rescue offspring, etc).

That's why the rule of thirds works. A major subject at center has to be something of such import that we would lock onto it. Prey (object of desire) possible mate (object of a different sort of desire), danger, etc. As modern humans, we sublimate the primitive object of desire concepts into concepts such as "object of great beauty", so we can center, for a while, on a really beautiful flower.

It's difficult to make a great photograph with the main subject centered. If the subject isn't so interesting that you're comfortable centering on it every time you see that picture, it's not "habitable", you can't really live with that piece of art.

Enter the rule of thirds. By moving the main subject off center, we fool human visual processing. We say "here's something moderately interesting, but not so overwhelming that it needs to be locked onto and centered". This can make the image more habitable. The rule of thirds points are simply good locations for doing this. Subject off center, but not too close to the edge. Something interesting close to the edge of the scene causes us to recenter the scene, turn head or body to a direction that puts this new interesting object closer to center.

It's not an exact rule, but it's close. go too far inward of the ROT points, and you have a centered composition again. Too far outward, and you're too close to the edge.
So I use the grid primarily for horizontal and vertical alignment. I
tend to place my "almost third" close to the grid line just outside
of where a "real" one third is.
That works...
Like most "rules" you have to use your own judgment for what looks
"right" when you click the shutter.
Exactly. Part of it is determined by the "visual weight" of an object: that combination of brightness, color, shape, resemblance to known a known D4 (differing degrees of desirability or danger) objects.
For landscapes, I have started using an old red cokin filter masked
to a 3-2 frame. I then used a sharpie for 1/3 grid lines. when
judging a scene, before picking up the camera I can look through the
filter and place subject areas on the grid based on light/dark mass
rather than the subject itself. It enables one to view the scene for
its strictly graphic content independent of subject or color.
Excellent. By removing "color", a high priority aspect of visual weight, you're able to visualize other aspects of visual weight separately.

Sort of like the way view camera adherents consider viewing the scene upside-down to be an advantage, they remove the D4 (recognition of familiar objects) aspect.

Some photographers were such adherents of this that they used left-right swapping cameras (like TLRs or MF SLRs without correcting prisms) turned sideways in order to invert the image. I've even heard of people doing this with a Leica VIDOM finder.

--

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
Thanks, pretty much what I presented in the comment above yours, including HCB's reported use of the Vidom.

Its fun to see that others have dug in as much as I have or more into these mysterious thingies that impact our viewing decisions.

Now if you can clear up Friedlander and the appeal of the parking lot pictures for me I would really be grateful:-)

thanks,
dale
--
“I don’t know what young means, you’re alive or not” HCB

http://www.flickr.com/photos/heydale
 
...I had also considered that he might have the extreme literalness and
lack of socialization characteristic of autism spectrum disorders,
but I have an insider perspective on that, and it still doesn't ring
true.
Extreme literalness, yes. Very concrete thinking, yes. (Also: common sense, not a lot of; uncommon sense, far more than average.) Social skills? Well...Discomfort in new situations or around new people, and extreme comfort and ease around good friends. Autism? Never been suggested before.
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top