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How much would you pay for the SD15?

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justascot said:
I'm still confused why Sigma is coming out with the SD15 - to me it
doesn't make much sense in a marketing perspective to be a worthwhile
exercise. As a SD14 user myself who has moved to a new country and is
in the midst of trying to set up a portrait business I have to admit
I will probably look at the SD15 sometime in the future so that I
have two camera bodies. But I seriously doubt its a camera that will
get the hearts racing of the masses.
Click to expand...
The DSLR market is based on "chumming" - rapid introduction of new models with slick ads to get people to equipment turn over on a rapid basis. It is the model the US auto industry used for so many years until the imports brought in cars that actually lasted more then 3 years. It is the model used by most of the consumer electronics industry. It was the model adopted by the camera companies when cameras because consumer electronics.

Sigma needs a new DSLR or they will be forgotten. I suspect this means any significant sensor improvement is 3 to 5 years off. Given the economic downturn I will be very interested to see how well the SD15 sells when in reality it is little more than an SD14 with new lipstick. Also I think Sigma shot themselves in the proverbial foot introducing the SD14 at 1500 bucks and dropping the price rapid hence sticking it to those that bought the camera early. We'll see how well the market place remembers.

--
Truman
http://www.pbase.com/tprevatt

 
If Sigma marketing is intelligent (not holding my breath on this one) they will come up with something like $900 for the body with a $300 trade-in for the SD14. That way those who actually own one will be able to upgrade for $600 and then Sigma can take the trade-ins, referbush them and resale them for maybe $300 enabling them to still have a cheap entry level model for people who just want to try it out. The economic model that Sigma seems to have adopted now is the same one the ink jet printer manufactures use, that of selling the body cheap and making their profit off the lenses--a good model for an underdog to adopt. But, again, we'll just have to wait to see how intelligent their marketing dept really is.
a20010494 said:
mike earussi said:
I won't pay more than $600 for it uness they offer a trade-in for
Sd14 owners.
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--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/aguadeloco
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Sigmauser01 said:
I think based off of a comparison to their competitor's current
prices for similar cameras this would be a pretty fair market
assumption for a SD-15 that is really finally a "winner."

$350 if they want to sell 20,000+ copies
$650 if they want to sell 10,000+ copies
$1,200 if they want to sell 5,000+ copies
$1,500 or more if they want to sell 1,500+ copies
Click to expand...
If they use the SD14 pricing plan, the answer is "all of the above." That is sell 1500+ copies to early adopters who must have the latest, 5k copies for those who want the new features but had sticker shock, 10k+ copies when the price finally drops to market levels, and then clear out the remaining inventory at $350.

BTW, there was recently a deal on the Sony A200 for $317 with kit lens and then $100 credit back with a Sony Visa CC. $217 for a new DSLR? Who'd a thunk it?

--
Erik
 
Truman Prevatt said:
Also I think Sigma shot themselves in the proverbial foot
introducing the SD14 at 1500 bucks and dropping the price rapid hence
sticking it to those that bought the camera early. We'll see how well
the market place remembers.
Click to expand...
As you know, all of these cameras drop from the initial pricing. Heck, eve the higher end offerings from Canon and Nikon drip down after the initial burst of "gotta have it" demand starts to taper. But the speed and size of the price cuts on the SD14 were unlike I've seen in any other camera and it certainly will make some who bought the SD14 too early quite cautious and possibly "wait".

I answered the OP that I would pay $900-$1000 for a SD15, but that is moreso "if" I didn't have a SD14 already. Assuming the SD15 removes a lot of the issues of the SD14 and just adds the few new features discussed by Sigma... then it would be worth that much (my opinion only) based on other offerings available TODAY only. If by the time it is actually on the shelves, things have changed, competition has further updated offerings, then I'd price it lower.

I'm actually glad the SD14 pricing dropped so quickly for one reason. User base. I thought the base was too small and by the price dropping, people were coming out of the woodworks that would likely have never bought it where I did ($1200). And those users are seeing the IQ and falling in love with it based on comments I've seen here and elsewhere. That is good. However,...

... the bad is that many of these folks made the plunge because the price got into their price point (zone). So I'm not sure how this will play out for Sigma with the SD15.

--
Michael James - DigitalCoastImage.com - Destin, FL U.S.A.
 
The big game changer right now is the dollar/yen exchange rate as well as euro/pound vs yen exchange rates as well. It is really bad for the camera makers because they have to charge more in order to come close to hitting decent profit margins.

That problem didn't exist when the SD14 was released.

Given that issue, I would not be surprised if the SD15 does not repeat the rapid decline in pricing as the SD14 did because the exchange rates have effectively eroded away the profit margins. In such a crazy economic situation, nothing could be worse than this major shift in currency rates that is causing many of the camera/lens makers to raise prices to hold margins during a time frame people are cutting back on their spending.

--
Michael James - DigitalCoastImage.com - Destin, FL U.S.A.
 
SandyF said:
Ed and Chris, you express my predicament and situation... I LIKE my
DP1 so I don't feel any particular urge to add the DP2... much as
I've seen the prints, the output, and have briefly used the DP2, and
know how nice it is .... I already have (hmm, how many...)many lenses
which cover that particular mm range. Granted not small and light on
a DSLR, like my 17-35mm EX DG I use a lot plus 28-70mm EX DG ditto I
use a lot. That on its 28mm end is pretty close to the DP2. Those are
my two favorite lenses and they really overlap the DP2 mm range. I'm
more inclined to upgrade to the SD15... mainly due, yes, to wacky
color on my current SD14. I've decided my August replacement SD14 is
more off on color than my first SD14 which got sacrificed to study
some questions... in the labs of Sigma I think...
Sigh, back to processing/color editing. Did you see the green
embedded JPEG here.. that's what my current SD14 does on sunlight wb
from the playa shots...
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman/image/110766125 Next time I go
outside in the sun with the SD14, I'm going to set the custom white
balance Larry's style
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1027&message=31421186
Click to expand...
snip
Sandy and all:

RE: the green cast in Sandy's current SD14, I'll be interested in seeing whether doing larryj's "one time custom" setting will reduce or eliminate that issue for daylight shooting at least. Again, although quite a number of users here have reported the green bias, I am curious as to what the broader ownership of SD14s are experiencing. We're a vocal but relatively small # of owners and arguably a knowledgeable but fairly critical group even among Sigma enthusiasts.

RE: the pending intro of SD15. I think it (the camera) is what it is and the intro from a business/marketing perspective will be what it will be. I thought Erik's synthesis of tiered prices may be a good guess. Those with the disposable income and interest will probably jump in early on, and various other mixes of income and interest along the product curve. To be fair, a new processing engine on board and even minor changes in ergonomics and/or other features might be more than just "lipstick". Those of us who choose to play are after all riding an evolving technology - could things have been done better e.g. on the SD 14's "peculiarities"? Of course - especially on a more mature product. Hopefully the SD15 will heal the gripes some have identified with the '14.

As far as seeing more of Sigma or even niche models of bigger name (camera) manufacturers on B&M store shelves, don't hold your breath. After the debacle of Jessop's in Britain, closing of Circuit City (not a camera store but one where many bought digital equipment) and bankruptcy and closings of Ritz in the US, I think limited, targeted shelf space is going to get worse not better. If Sigma has designs on bigger market share (and it's not entirely clear to me that they do) anytime soon, in this recessed if not depressed economy, it will take an unconventional strategy I think to get there. OTOH a well-defined "niche" for want of a better word may be exactly the pond Sigma wants to swim in.

Best,
--
Ed_S
http://www.pbase.com/ecsquires
 
I am convinced it will have in camera focus adjustment.

It is already a niche product, but to release a mid-range DSLR without in-camera focus adjustment now would be suicide, Sigma re not that dumb!
Marfalkov said:
armaco said:
and wait for SDxx with larger sensor 1,5 crop or 1,3 with more pixels...
big new baterry,
and focus adjustment as body function with memory for more than one
lens.

Sigma are you listening?

--
You cannot explain everything to everyone ...
Pythagoras of Samos 570-500BC

Kostas Sarris

http://blog.sarrisphoto.com/
http://www.pbase.com/armaco/
http://www.sarrisphoto.com
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr/kostas_sarris
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr/kostas_sarris__sd14
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--
Kind Regards,
Marfalkov

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--
Ian Gianni
 
Hopefully the entire pipeline and having control of R&D of both the sensor and camera will make for a better product in the future. All we can do is hope for the best.

I love the IQ and if this move of theirs makes for a better product in the future.

I am only speaking theoretically. I am guessing that being able to create a camera with a sensor and technology they have some development control over would lead to a situation where they can solve many of the issues you listed. Time will tell if this will turn out to be true or not.

My only complaint and fear (kind of the same) is that they take so long to develop then next release beyond the SD15 that the marketplace has moved beyond it already in terms of features and IQ. For example:

Look at the specs of the recently announced canon T1i. That processor, 15 MP, High ISO performance, Features (etc) are amazing for a body that is only $799 and will be available in the next 60 days. I was actually shocked at how much Canon threw into that body. It was an aggressive move on their part vs. their other lines. I will certainly do a shoot off of sorts when I get it. Meaning...

... SD14 vs. Canon T1i with the same Sigma Lenses for equal comparisons.

As for the future... I think it is becoming clear that many of the camera makers are set on integrating video into their DSLRs. What's RED call it? DMSC (digital motion still camera?). Regardless, it is obviously a trend that is gaining steam despite some photographers not liking the video features in a DSLR.

They are all just tools to me. I'm loyal to IQ... not companies. My clients pay me for results, so I buy tools that provide them regardless of the logo.

I jumped on the SD14 band wagon and despite the quirks, it has been a good ride for me thus far! I'm hoping that Sigma comes out with a future model beyond the SD15 that will get me as excited as I was almost two years ago when I got my first SD14!

--
Michael James - DigitalCoastImage.com - Destin, FL U.S.A.
 
Erik Magnuson said:
Sigmauser01 said:
I think based off of a comparison to their competitor's current
prices for similar cameras this would be a pretty fair market
assumption for a SD-15 that is really finally a "winner."

$350 if they want to sell 20,000+ copies
$650 if they want to sell 10,000+ copies
$1,200 if they want to sell 5,000+ copies
$1,500 or more if they want to sell 1,500+ copies
Click to expand...
If they use the SD14 pricing plan, the answer is "all of the above."
That is sell 1500+ copies to early adopters who must have the latest,
5k copies for those who want the new features but had sticker shock,
10k+ copies when the price finally drops to market levels, and then
clear out the remaining inventory at $350.

BTW, there was recently a deal on the Sony A200 for $317 with kit
lens and then $100 credit back with a Sony Visa CC. $217 for a new
DSLR? Who'd a thunk it?

--
Erik
Click to expand...
I saw that deal too. Pretty amazing. At that price I was tempted.
--
My humble photo gallery: http://ntotrr.smugmug.com

 
SandyF said:
justascot said:
I'm still confused why Sigma is coming out with the SD15 - to me it
doesn't make much sense in a marketing perspective to be a worthwhile
exercise.
Click to expand...
The SD14 was released in March 2007, so it's been out a while. I
think Sigma needs an updated DSLR... most companies update models
even more frequently.
Click to expand...
I think we are all in agreement that Sigma needs a new dSLR. But is the SD15 the camera that Sigma needed? I don't think so. The specs don't say that it has moved on that much from a camera that was released over 2 years ago. The rest of the industry has moved on a great deal and prices have also shrunk a great deal, even with the bounce caused by the exchange rate markets.

I like the results created by the foveon sensor, but when it was realised that the company that produced it could not take the technology on at a quick enough competitive rate to allow the production of a new improved dSLR then I do feel that Sigma should have made moves to take over the company sooner. I really feel that the SD15 is a camera thats only going to sell to the converted, and even then I doubt its a camera that will suggest 'buy me at the first opportunity'.

I've been reading these forums for a year now and what most people who bought the SD14 at full price have suggested is that they would have regretted not having the images that they had taken before the price had fallen so dramatically. But I'm not sure that the SD15 is going to be persuasive enough for even the vast majority of previous SD14 owners to jump in and buy it right away. If Sigma can't persuade those people to buy the same story of the price fall of 2008 will repeat itself. And this time Sigma won't have the same number of lens sales to make the exercise profitable. I really think it was the lens sales that made the price drop of SD14 a profitable venture. With the 200 pound cashback I only paid 299 pounds for my camera but I then went on to buy 4 lenses during the next 13 months and I'm sure many people did the same. However many of those owners will now have the lenses that they want so even if they were to upgrade to a SD15 that might be the end

I'm personally not someone who feels the need for cameras to have greatly reduced megapixels rates with every new release. But I would have liked the next camera to have a better performance indoors and in low/bad light. I love the look of foveon images in good light but in those situations I mentioned above it really struggles. And for me anything over ISO400 just doesn't cut it, sometimes I even find that limit too noisy depending on the situation. However I've learned to live within the camera's limitations and I work around it. The functionality of the camera is not great all of the time but the image quality is for me what makes it worthwhile to keep on using and the SD15 does not represent to me a great enough jump in that regard for me to want to rush out and buy it on its release. I suspect thats going to be the case for a lot of SD14 owners this time around. If that proves to be the case then even as a placeholder this camera is going to be a hardsell for Sigma.
SandyF said:
The basic specs for the SD15 were released at Photokina time, October
2008. Sigma bought the sensor company Foveon in November 2008. (Just
time frame perspective)
....
SandyF said:
But I seriously doubt its a camera that will
get the hearts racing of the masses.
Click to expand...
LOL, I doubt the Sigma DSLRs have been on the radar of the "masses"
and probably still won't be, no matter what their specs. I see them
as more of a "niche" DSLR still for photographers who are interested
above all in "image quality" ... let's not get into the definitions
of that here... just say the SDx are "photographers' " cameras rather
than for the "masses." But the SD14 needs an update.
Click to expand...
I wasn't really meaning to suggest that Sigma camera was ever going to appeal to the masses but I do feel that they need to aim their camera releases at more than just the existing customer base. And yes I agree they definitely needed an update but a SD14 mark 2 over 2 years after the initial offering was released is I doubt going to be good enough as a placeholder. Personally I think it might have been a better investment to delay the release of any new dSLRs for maybe 12 months until a new improved sensor was designed and produced and concentrate current resources on new DP releases and on getting the complimentary technology of the next dSLR body right so that the next release was a more exciting prospect. Personally I wouldn't want to be one of those people who waits 6-9 months to buy the SD15 at what I would consider a reasonable price to pay only to find out that 6 months later a new camera is released with much improved specs.

Steven
 
Steven,

Your speculation is probably as good as anyone's. The difficulty (for me) I think is trying to get into Sigma's head on these things. For instance, on the SD14, I think most of us agree "some improvement" took place vs. the earlier SDs, but some new quirks emerged. Some of those quirks for some owners were more troublesome than for others. Hence, I speculate, Sigma felt some improvement was needed - the SD 14 for various reasons (including economy) may have been nearing the end of its product cycle - time to roll out an improved model (to include I think the new imaging engine). Ergo - SD15.

By conventional market standards - probably not as robust a step forward as we might be used to, especially with neither a truly new sensor in size or design, nor new "features" whether useful or no. OTOH Sigma seems to move in its own paradigm which (I hope) pleases them. Certainly a novel product development and marketing approach - always interesting to watch.

Regards,
--
Ed_S
http://www.pbase.com/ecsquires
 
Talking of Aliens, wheres ALF thesedays --- I mean DaSigmaGuy here, not the Glove puppet of course .....

--
--------> Adam-T

Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

 
Digital Coast Image said:
I jumped on the SD14 band wagon and despite the quirks, it has been a
good ride for me thus far! I'm hoping that Sigma comes out with a
future model beyond the SD15 that will get me as excited as I was
almost two years ago when I got my first SD14!
Click to expand...
Hey, it's weird but i feel exactly the same. I could never imagine about being excited on a company like Sigma. I can wait a long time for the camera we all are waiting for. I'm having even more patience and excitement than with nintendo!
 
Ruvy said:
how much would you, as an owner of sd14 will pay
to upgrade to sd15? also, will you upgrade or what will it take for
you to upgrade?
Click to expand...
The OP didn't ask about upgrades. If you re-read the question and the entire post, the OP asked what we would pay for a SD15... which the OP is inferring is an upgraded SD14.

And my answer twice in this thread was $900-$1000. But that assumes a release prior to a whole new batch of camera releases. If the SD15 doesn't come out in the next few months and other offerings come out that are more compelling at lower price points, then I would likely lower the amount below the amount I said I'd pay.

--
Michael James - DigitalCoastImage.com - Destin, FL U.S.A.
 
Hi

No, I read your original reply and analysis. It was good one but on a later post you have mentioned that the amount of $900-1000 is for a new one if you didn't have a sd14. Hope I got it right but this being the case, and considering the OP brought the question into a forum where vast majority own SDx obviously he meant how much will it be worth for an owner of SD camera to cash out to get SD15? at least that is how understood it.

--
Ruvy
http://www.ruvyamir.co.il
http://www.ruvyamir.co.il/gallery
http://www.pbase.com/ruvy
 
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