500D samples and questions/points...

There are some 500D sample pics here..

http://www.canon-europe.com/About_Us/Press_Centre/Image_Library/Products/Fashion/images.asp

and also here...

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/T1I/T1IGALLERY.HTM

Looking through the technical specification I can find no comment from Canon on whether the 500D's sensor uses the same gapless technology found in the 50D.

If it doesn't it will likely have poorer high ISO abilities than its 15.1 MP big brother.

I also found a Canon press release with some pretty eye watering UK prices for the 500D, as in about 960 pounds retail price (including kit lens). That compares with 491 pounds for the 450D plus kit at Amazon.co.uk. The prices were simarly scary in euros. Alas I didn't save the page and can no longer track it down. Maybe Canon are having second thoughts, or has anyone else found this link?

But the million dollar question has to be will the 500D FOCUS properly? I ran some tests on my 450D and it clearly does not focus accurately. It's strange as my 400D never missed a shot. I'll certainly be remaining on the purchasing sidelines until this last vital point is clarified.

Personally I'm very disappointed to see that Canon still have not launched a 24-120 mm (35 mm equivalent) walk around zoom for their 1.6 crop cameras. They are now the ONLY DSLR manufacturer failing to offer this which is appalling. The extra width at the wide end makes all the difference and Nikonites have been happily shooting with the excellent 16-85 mm (24-127 mm in 35 mm equivalent) for well over a year. For me this is a real test of Canon's attitude to its customer base.

I've been comparing the 500D and the 50D over at http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM and it seems like whatever Canon did, the 500D has less noise at really high ISOs (12800).



is the image I saw bandied about on another forum.

simon65 said:

There are some 500D sample pics here..

http://www.canon-europe.com/About_Us/Press_Centre/Image_Library/Products/Fashion/images.asp

and also here...

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/T1I/T1IGALLERY.HTM

Looking through the technical specification I can find no comment
from Canon on whether the 500D's sensor uses the same gapless
technology found in the 50D.
If it doesn't it will likely have poorer high ISO abilities than its
15.1 MP big brother.

I also found a Canon press release with some pretty eye watering UK
prices for the 500D, as in about 960 pounds retail price (including
kit lens). That compares with 491 pounds for the 450D plus kit at
Amazon.co.uk. The prices were simarly scary in euros. Alas I didn't
save the page and can no longer track it down. Maybe Canon are having
second thoughts, or has anyone else found this link?

Click to expand...

No link but got an email from warehouse express this morning offering pre-order prices

£869 Bare Body
£969 Body + 18-55 IS Kit lens
£1399 Body with 18-200 Lens

Definately a big jump, Ill stick to learning with me 400d for a while longer ....

--
400D
Canon 18-55 IS
Canon 50 mm F/1.8
Sigma 18-200mm OS

http://s192.photobucket.com/albums/z63/Symrat/

Symrat said:

No link but got an email from warehouse express this morning offering
pre-order prices

£869 Bare Body
£969 Body + 18-55 IS Kit lens
£1399 Body with 18-200 Lens

Definately a big jump, Ill stick to learning with me 400d for a while
longer ....

Click to expand...

Thanks, those are the price levels I saw and they're incredibly high for such a camera!!! Almost a 1,000 pounds (with 18-55 kit lens) versus under 500 pounds for the 450D. Last Christmas a 450D could be had for 430 pounds with the kit lens.

OK the weak pound doesn't help, but maybe Canon is looking at the global recession from a different perspective from the rest of us. 'In times of trouble charge them more!'

Dracil said:

I've been comparing the 500D and the 50D over at
http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM and it seems like
whatever Canon did, the 500D has less noise at really high ISOs
(12800).



is
the image I saw bandied about on another forum.

Click to expand...

What I see is loads of NR on the left, but thankfully no banding. The devil is in the detail, in this case literally.

simon65 said:

Looking through the technical specification I can find no comment
from Canon on whether the 500D's sensor uses the same gapless
technology found in the 50D.

Click to expand...

According to a Canon sales rep, the 500d uses the same sensor as the 50d, but the 500d doesn't have micro lenses. Take it for what it's worth, after all the dude ionly a sales rep.

From the Imaging Resource's article:

“Where the T1i's sensor differs is in the data path: whereas the 50D's sensor has a four-channel readout, the T1i's sensor uses a 2-channel readout.”

I see no mention that the T1i's sensor has no microlenses, or that they're not gapless; in fact, they seem to imply the opposite.

Koosla said:

From the Imaging Resource's article:

“Where the T1i's sensor differs is in the data path: whereas the
50D's sensor has a four-channel readout, the T1i's sensor uses a
2-channel readout.”

I see no mention that the T1i's sensor has no microlenses, or that
they're not gapless; in fact, they seem to imply the opposite.

Click to expand...

Well, no micro lenses (and slower readout) is what this Canon sales dude repeated twice:

http://www.zoom.comon.dk/index.php/chat/chat

GregGory said:

Koosla said:

From the Imaging Resource's article:

“Where the T1i's sensor differs is in the data path: whereas the
50D's sensor has a four-channel readout, the T1i's sensor uses a
2-channel readout.”

I see no mention that the T1i's sensor has no microlenses, or that
they're not gapless; in fact, they seem to imply the opposite.

Click to expand...

Well, no micro lenses (and slower readout) is what this Canon sales
dude repeated twice:

http://www.zoom.comon.dk/index.php/chat/chat

Click to expand...

Yep, we seem to have a basic 15.1 MP sensor here with none of the modern microlens technology which Canon used in the 50D to offset the obvious noise problems associated with squeezing 15.1 MP into a 1.6 crop space.

It's inevitable therefore that the 500D will exhibit more noise than the 12 MP 450D. Not good at all! Ok you get a movie mode and higher resolution live view with the 500D, but more noise is not something I'd be prepared to live with.

The 450D seems to be the better photographers camera, and at current pricing, a far better deal.

At the pricing the 50D looks a far better deal than the 500D, the only thing it seems to be offering is video, and how important is that to you, the likely upgrade path for photographers is the 50D, leaving the 500D for family guy that want's to play with video as well.
--
artyman
http://www.artyman.co.uk

Member said:

But the million dollar question has to be will the 500D FOCUS
properly? I ran some tests on my 450D and it clearly does not focus
accurately. It's strange as my 400D never missed a shot. I'll
certainly be remaining on the purchasing sidelines until this last
vital point is clarified.

Click to expand...

If your starting point is based on this paragraph most probably you will not also be satisfied with 500D as well. First of all they use the same AF system apparently and also your statement of 450D clearly doesnt focus accurately is wrong since it makes a general statement and I dont have an AF issue with my 450D for instance as well as so many other 450D users.

simon65 said:

GregGory said:

Koosla said:

From the Imaging Resource's article:

“Where the T1i's sensor differs is in the data path: whereas the
50D's sensor has a four-channel readout, the T1i's sensor uses a
2-channel readout.”

I see no mention that the T1i's sensor has no microlenses, or that
they're not gapless; in fact, they seem to imply the opposite.

Click to expand...

Well, no micro lenses (and slower readout) is what this Canon sales
dude repeated twice:

http://www.zoom.comon.dk/index.php/chat/chat

Click to expand...

Yep, we seem to have a basic 15.1 MP sensor here with none of the
modern microlens technology which Canon used in the 50D to offset the
obvious noise problems associated with squeezing 15.1 MP into a 1.6
crop space.

It's inevitable therefore that the 500D will exhibit more noise than
the 12 MP 450D. Not good at all! Ok you get a movie mode and higher
resolution live view with the 500D, but more noise is not something
I'd be prepared to live with.

The 450D seems to be the better photographers camera, and at current
pricing, a far better deal.

Click to expand...

But also most probably, 500d will have default noise reduction due to higher pixel density so the net results should be similar or better ISO quality against 450D at the expense of a bit lack of its native resolution, so actually 15mp vs 12mp does not add too much of a resolution here. My two cents.

GregGory said:

Well, no micro lenses (and slower readout) is what this Canon sales
dude repeated twice:

Click to expand...

Hi Greg, I've read the text, but I think it's very unlikely it has no microlenses. Perhaps it has microlenses of a simpler design. Pretty much all cameras today have microlenses.

We'll know when John Sheehy or the other raw gurus have measured the shot noise how it compares efficiency wise to the 50D.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden

Member said:

But the million dollar question has to be will the 500D FOCUS
properly? I ran some tests on my 450D and it clearly does not focus
accurately. It's strange as my 400D never missed a shot. I'll
certainly be remaining on the purchasing sidelines until this last
vital point is clarified.

Click to expand...

A somewhat related question is how it focuses in Live Mode with Contrast autofocus. In one of my conversations with Canon Service, the person indicted that speeding that up in the next model was a high priority. If it's a small fraction of a second, like the micro Panasonic, at least there is one way it should autofocus very accurately and work quickly. I don't like holding my camera out to look at the LCD screen when I take pictures though. I'm about to send back my 450D and its latest lens to Sigma for focus calibration and will be without it for 3-4 weeks (new Sigma lens, another calibration!) The Sigma service supervisor I spoke to said to get used to it, it is a fact of life with this camera and a number of other recent DSLRs. If he has three 450Ds on the lab bench, they will all need different focus calibrations in his experience if you want them dead on. For that reason he said that there is no point in me just sending my lens in for calibration in I want it to focus accurately. It has to be calibrated for MY camera.

On the other hand, this is the second copy of this Sigma lens I have received, and the second focuses significantly better than the first, though still rather poorly. This says that Sigma has a fair amount of variation in focus calibration on lenses that leave their factory. Both copies gave excellent performance using Live Mode contrast focus, though the focus barrel had to be turned roughly 8 mm for the first lens and 4 mm for the second lens to go from the phase detect autofocus position to the contrast focus position in a typical setting.

Joe

jsmiller wrote:
In one of my conversations with Canon Service,

jsmiller said:

the person indicted that speeding that up in the next model was a
high priority. If it's a small fraction of a second, like the micro
Panasonic, at least there is one way it should autofocus very
accurately and work quickly. I don't like holding my camera out to
look at the LCD screen when I take pictures though.

Click to expand...

I just found a review of a beta version of the camera that gives 2.6 second for the time to take a picture using contrast focus in Live Mode. This is clearly far too long for routine use. Now if the camera had microadjustment for focus, you could at least use it to evaluate your tweaking. But it apparently doesn't. Still, things have changed between the beta version and the final production model in past cameras.

Joe

number95 said:

number95 said:

But the million dollar question has to be will the 500D FOCUS
properly? I ran some tests on my 450D and it clearly does not focus
accurately. It's strange as my 400D never missed a shot. I'll
certainly be remaining on the purchasing sidelines until this last
vital point is clarified.

Click to expand...

If your starting point is based on this paragraph most probably you
will not also be satisfied with 500D as well. First of all they use
the same AF system apparently and also your statement of 450D clearly
doesnt focus accurately is wrong since it makes a general statement
and I dont have an AF issue with my 450D for instance as well as so
many other 450D users.

Click to expand...

I didn't make a general statement, I said my 450D doesn't focus accurately, something which is unfortunately correct. If your 450D focuses fine then that's good news but there are quite a few of us with problem copies.

I really saw the difference between how the camera does focus and how it should focus when I stuck it on a tripod and compared manual focus with auto. The manual ones are far sharper!

If the 500D uses the same autofocus system as the 450D without improvements then that's a bad omen.

simon65 said:

The 450D seems to be the better photographers camera, and at current
pricing, a far better deal.

Click to expand...

Wow, Simon, no offense but that's a stretch. Perhaps a better value for some, but to say its a better photographer's camera....well, that might be a stretch. At this point Live view and video modes are not "photographer" features, their consumer and enthusiast features, so just because those features are improved doesnt mean it's a better photographer's camera. If I was actually paid for photography I would choose the 50D in a micro-second. The 500D is still a great camera, especially for this market. You guys are obsessing over ridiculous, marginal noise that is only visible at 100%. Want less noise, pull your nose away from your monitor. Until something beyond CMOS is developed, it's all in the image processing applied (DIGIC).