T1i...the good, the bad, the ugly

RicksAstro · Mar 24, 2009

Having a 5DII, I was waiting with interest on this one as a nice capable backup...doesn't look like it'll happen for me though (see my 2 UGLY's)

The good:
-Auto ISO goes up to ISO1600...much more useful than XSI's ISO800
-LCD is nice (same as 5DII)

-720P @ 30fps is great...I wish I had a 720P option on the 5DII, since I find the 1080P way overkill for my talent/AV equipment.

The Bad (or so-so):
-Why even include a 1080P @20fps...too jerky!

-I know ISO12800 is ugly on the 5DII...I'm betting it's a mess on this one. I guess having the option can't be considered a negative

The UGLY:

No apparent mic input...owning a 5DII, I know how the internal mic picks up EVERYTHING...IS sounds like an airplane, even manual focusing can be loud. A small external mic solves this nicely, but with no input jack???

I'm very disappointed Canon decided to leave AF adjustment out of the T1i...having used AF adjust on the 5DII and Nikon D300, I'll never get a camera without this feature...I tried a few XSI's and had major focus issues with 2 of them (another focused great with most lenses). The 5DII just nails focus with all of my lenses after adjustment.

--
Rick Krejci
http://www.ricksastro.com

LukeS · Mar 24, 2009

The no mic input will be a deal breaker for people really interested in shooting video. What is the point of shooting video if you can not get decent audio. Very, very bad call on the part of canon.

the 1080p 20fps is stupid but i bet it was technical hardware limitation to due with cost, I don't think this will be a big deal breaker for anyone as much as the no mic input is.

The AF is definitely a step up from the 450D even if it is not adjustable, it is a cross type center point sensor which is great.

Chez Wimpy · Mar 24, 2009

RicksAstro said:
-720P @ 30fps is great...I wish I had a 720P option on the 5DII,
since I find the 1080P way overkill for my talent/AV equipment.

I agree that having the option for 720p is really nice. I pretty much downsize all of my final videos to 540x960, so this could do away with that.

RicksAstro said:
The Bad (or so-so):
-Why even include a 1080P @20fps...too jerky!

To say that it does full HD while Nikon doesn't... pure marketing BS

RicksAstro said:
-I know ISO12800 is ugly on the 5DII...I'm betting it's a mess on
this one. I guess having the option can't be considered a negative

I wouldn't touch above 1600 on an APS-C camera at this point, except if they included sRAW... and of course they didn't, so I would be looking at very big, very pointless RAW files done in low light.

I would include 14bit with the bad. They resisted this "upgrade" to the rebel line until the 450D, and now it just means more file bloat. 15MP is really neither here nor there... my only hesitation is the lack of small-RAW options when I need the flexibility of RAW the most (indoors, pushing exposure envelopes) but recognize there is no 15MP of detail left for the taking.

RicksAstro said:
The UGLY:

No apparent mic input...owning a 5DII, I know how the internal mic

picks up EVERYTHING...IS sounds like an airplane, even manual
focusing can be loud. A small external mic solves this nicely, but
with no input jack???

Yes, very ugly indeed.

RicksAstro said:
I'm very disappointed Canon decided to leave AF adjustment out of

the T1i...having used AF adjust on the 5DII and Nikon D300, I'll
never get a camera without this feature...I tried a few XSI's and had
major focus issues with 2 of them (another focused great with most
lenses). The 5DII just nails focus with all of my lenses after
adjustment.

I've said it before, Canon makes it hard to get a good picture with their entry level gear and hard not to with the high end. Decisions, decisions...

--
-CW

Chez Wimpy · Mar 24, 2009

LukeS said:
The no mic input will be a deal breaker for people really interested
in shooting video. What is the point of shooting video if you can
not get decent audio.

Gonna have to do external and sync in post... after getting your editing software to recognize the true framerate of the video (29.97, not 30 as Canon's file header would like us to believe).

LukeS said:
the 1080p 20fps is stupid but i bet it was technical hardware
limitation to due with cost

It has a lot to do with cost alright, the cost of lost 5D2 sales to people who intend to shoot seriously at full HD, and the cost of not losing sales to the D90 since Canon can advertise "Full HD" and leave the pointless frame rate to the fine print.

LukeS said:
I don't think this will be a big deal
breaker for anyone as much as the no mic input is.

One has a workaround though, and the other you have to live with.

LukeS said:
The AF is definitely a step up from the 450D even if it is not
adjustable, it is a cross type center point sensor which is great.

??? So did the 450D, and the 400D before it.

--
-CW

Neuffy · Mar 24, 2009

The XSi is 14-bit RAW. The XSi appears to have the same AF sensor as the new Rebel. Those wouldn't be changes.

The lack of mic input sorta blows it for me. If it had a mic input and AF microadjustment I'd buy one as soon as they were available. Oh well. I guess I'll have to buy a 5DII instead...

skanter · Mar 25, 2009

Neuffy said:
The lack of mic input sorta blows it for me. If it had a mic input
and AF microadjustment I'd buy one as soon as they were available. Oh
well. I guess I'll have to buy a 5DII instead...

While no mic input is a mistake, one can record on one of many small high quality external recording devices (like the Zoom HD) and not worry about cables, and sync the sound later when editing. This is no big deal for people who do video, and in many ways is preferable.

--
Sam Kanter, NYC

Torchwood · Mar 25, 2009

Forget Video Negatives, this is supposed to be a serious camera, use a Panasonic TZ5 or a TX1 instead for that

RicksAstro said:
I'm very disappointed Canon decided to leave AF adjustment out of

the T1i..

This is the REAL Ugly because of this

.> .I tried a few XSI's and had

RicksAstro said:
major focus issues with 2 of them (another focused great with most
lenses).

I've had EVERY Model in the XXXD/Rebel line and multiple copies of some and not a single one of them were dependable for AF - the tatty 300D I got for £50 in 2006 and a used 400D which only rear focussed a bit were the best but still awful compared to an old D60 or any 1 series for dependable AF with anything approaching mildly fast glass and on the whole the AF was a Liability (had to carry a 7yr old D60 as a backup) -

If there ever was a Camera line which needed Micro Adjustment its THIS line (and Nikons powered by the CAM1000 AF as well for the record) - it's cured the XXD Ills in the 50D (which I've happily bought and using as a second work camera though admittedly the 40D was miles better than the previous Digic powered XXD horrors) so missing it off their most missy cameras was stupid in the extreme.

Maybe they think that Canon "Rebel" Series users aren't capable of adjusting their cameras ? - well all I can say is that they couldn't do a worse job of it than Canon's factory do !!!!!

--
--------> Adam-T

Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

Torchwood · Mar 25, 2009

Chez Wimpy said:
I would include 14bit with the bad. They resisted this "upgrade" to
the rebel line until the 450D, and now it just means more file bloat.

Correct - a 15Mp 50D Landscape RAW is 22Mb where a 1DS-II 17Mp one is only 18Mb -- and the 1DS2 holds Vastly more Dynamic range, far more Real Detail and has nicer colour graduations ........... With Nikon you can switch to 12Bit mode (and have to as 14 bit slows the cam to a crawl where it doesn't with the canon) I wish you could with the 50D, it'd probably shoot faster than the 1D-III then ;-) and the files would be 15Mb

--
--------> Adam-T

Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

Glenn_Sydney · Mar 25, 2009

--

Just as i thought. A standard upgrade. Not worth upgrading from a 450d. A lot of hype and drooling prior to the unveiliing but I did think the upgrade with be relatively minor. Video is not a big deal for me on a DSLR but obviously it is for some.

The best feature is the expanded ISO as far as i can tell

Steve Dudley · Mar 25, 2009

Glenn_Sydney said:
--
Just as i thought. A standard upgrade. Not worth upgrading from a
450d. A lot of hype and drooling prior to the unveiliing but I did
think the upgrade with be relatively minor. Video is not a big deal
for me on a DSLR but obviously it is for some.

The best feature is the expanded ISO as far as i can tell

Nothing much for me either. I will never see my Still Camera as anything other than that, I have a 1080p HD video camera for video. The cost is going to be interesting and just how noise free that 15.2 megapixel sensor is going to be. The 40d and 50D group are still divided on which provides the better image quality. High ISO is good but is it useable. No micro AF adjustment so what does that say , well this is an entry level Dslr you can not expect everything but my choice would have been to forgo the video and go with the AF option.
An upgrade ?, no, but a very nice start for some one buying an entry level Dslr

rachis · Mar 25, 2009

Neuffy said:
The lack of mic input sorta blows it for me. If it had a mic input
and AF microadjustment I'd buy one as soon as they were available. Oh
well. I guess I'll have to buy a 5DII instead...

I think that's exactly what Canon wants you to do... get the 5D2 if the 500D is not enough... just don't buy Nikon!!!

Regards,
Rachis
---------------
I am an Amateur / Enthusiast / Hobbyist / etc… not a Pro = I can be wrong

Cautions:
I may when the mood suits me become a pixel peeper!

Neuffy · Mar 25, 2009

rachis said:
Neuffy said:

The lack of mic input sorta blows it for me. If it had a mic input
and AF microadjustment I'd buy one as soon as they were available. Oh
well. I guess I'll have to buy a 5DII instead...

Click to expand...

I think that's exactly what Canon wants you to do... get the 5D2 if
the 500D is not enough... just don't buy Nikon!!!

Iono...Canon better fix their 24-70/16-35 options up to Nikon 24-70/14-24 standards [and why, oh why is Canon's 200F2 $2k more than Nikon's 200F2?] within the next five years before Nikon makes a D700X...Of course, it'd cost me to switch. Lenses, flashes predominantly. This is, however, an entirely different topic.

On syncing from a separate audio device: One could do that, but it's more work than I want to do. Quality of audio isn't of the utmost importance for me - I'm not willing to do more than buy an external mic and plug it in.

In the end, however, I just may pick one up for the simple reason of the screen: The new screens are nice .

ohyva · Mar 25, 2009

Glenn_Sydney said:
--
Just as i thought. A standard upgrade. Not worth upgrading from a
450d. A lot of hype and drooling prior to the unveiliing but I did
think the upgrade with be relatively minor. Video is not a big deal
for me on a DSLR but obviously it is for some.

I agree most likely not worth to upgrade if you have the 450D.
But upgrading my 2nd body / travel camera, my old 350D - perhaps.
Video is not any big issue to me, but AF fine-tune would have been nice.

Probably just too expensive for these entry bodies where every penny in the BOM counts.

I'll wait to see some IQ reviews before deciding.

Glenn_Sydney said:
The best feature is the expanded ISO as far as i can tell

Scrozzy · Mar 25, 2009

I agree with your assessment and I'm disappointed. I think my expectations were too high as well, which probably didn't help.

The most useful thing is the improved ISO range. Everything else is a bit "mneh" or half-baked. I guess there wasn't much incentive to upgrade from the 400D to the 450D either, so it looks like I'll be waiting for the 550D.

It's a shame because I actually wanted to spend the money.

Boo.

Manehead · Mar 25, 2009

As far as I can see, the differences between the 450D and 500D are the following:

15MP - Is this an upgrade or a downgrade, I cannot decide...

3200 ISO - I cannot see this having low noise without sacrificing image detail. ISO 1600 on the 450D +1EV might even look better.

Video - Crippled sound, no use for me personally anyway.

Screen - Nice, if you use live view a lot. Otherwise it will just drain the battery faster while displaying black and white camera settings in huge lettering.

Vignetting correction - Nice to have I suppose. Saves a couple of button clicks during PP.

All other specs/hardware same as 450D. Pretty disappointing to be honest. I'm even thinking that if I could buy the 450D and 500D at the same price I'd still pick the 450D, so that I can take 100 more pictures on a full charge, fit 80 more RAWs onto a 4GB card, and not have to spend all night waiting for my RAWs to process.

Ehrik · Mar 25, 2009

RicksAstro said:
The good:
-Auto ISO goes up to ISO1600...much more useful than XSI's ISO800

Yes, but I guess it STILL doesn't work in M mode or with flash?

And no way to set a slowest shutter speed? Or to set how it's supposed to vary with focal length with and without IS? Still so much to be done here...

RicksAstro said:
-LCD is nice (same as 5DII)

Yes, thanks, kind of overkill.

RicksAstro said:
-720P @ 30fps is great...I wish I had a 720P option on the 5DII,
since I find the 1080P way overkill for my talent/AV equipment.

The Bad (or so-so):
-Why even include a 1080P @20fps...too jerky!

And what about AF speed, aperture selection?

RicksAstro said:
-I know ISO12800 is ugly on the 5DII...I'm betting it's a mess on
this one. I guess having the option can't be considered a negative

The digital multiplication modes would be better shot at the highest non-multiplied ISO and tagged as high ISO in the raw file. Then there would be more highlights room left.

RicksAstro said:
The UGLY:

No apparent mic input...owning a 5DII, I know how the internal mic

picks up EVERYTHING...IS sounds like an airplane, even manual
focusing can be loud. A small external mic solves this nicely, but
with no input jack???

Agree, this relegates video to a gimmick.

RicksAstro said:
I'm very disappointed Canon decided to leave AF adjustment out of

the T1i...having used AF adjust on the 5DII and Nikon D300, I'll
never get a camera without this feature...I tried a few XSI's and had
major focus issues with 2 of them (another focused great with most
lenses).

Yes it's a recurring theme on this forum. No indications that the 500D AF has been revamped. Ironically, Oly, who seem to need it less, have very advanced AF adjustments in their entry body.

Other minor disappointments (not surprised, though):
No change to the grip.
No AF assist lamp.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden

RicksAstro · Mar 25, 2009

Ehrik said:
RicksAstro said:

The good:
-Auto ISO goes up to ISO1600...much more useful than XSI's ISO800

Click to expand...

Yes, but I guess it STILL doesn't work in M mode or with flash?
And no way to set a slowest shutter speed? Or to set how it's
supposed to vary with focal length with and without IS? Still so much
to be done here...

Yes, I would like more control, particularly a focal length ratio shift and to have it work in M and setting a shutter floor. But I find the 5DII's auto-iso useful for general situations when I don't want to worry about camera settings. If I'm worried about settings, I just set the ISO by hand. Certainly there are situations (sports in dynamic (sun/shade) exposure conditions) where more control would be very valuable.

But I liked Nikon's implementation less...when using a zoom lens (like the nice 18-200), changing the min shutter speed required at the minimum a 2 level dive into the menuing system (is you set it on your customized menu)...defeated the purpose of a no-worry mode like auto-iso. So the grass isn't always greener.

Ehrik said:
Ehrik said:

The Bad (or so-so):
-Why even include a 1080P @20fps...too jerky!

Click to expand...

And what about AF speed, aperture selection?

I assumed it wouldn't be better than the 5DII, but you're right, making you half-remove a Canon lens to fix the aperture is ridiculous.

Ehrik said:
Ehrik said:

I'm very disappointed Canon decided to leave AF adjustment out of

the T1i...having used AF adjust on the 5DII and Nikon D300, I'll
never get a camera without this feature...I tried a few XSI's and had
major focus issues with 2 of them (another focused great with most
lenses).

Click to expand...

Yes it's a recurring theme on this forum. No indications that the
500D AF has been revamped. Ironically, Oly, who seem to need it less,
have very advanced AF adjustments in their entry body.

Yes, I was hoping the inclusion of an advanced AF adjust in the Oly 620 would prompt Canon to include it here. Being an anal retentive tech geek, it bothers me to no end to have my lenses performing worse than they should. Before the 40D, I could mechanically tweak the body focus to my satisfaction and was very satisfied. I was able to find one XSi that was well calibrated and focused great, but it had a scratched sensor...I just gave up!

The AF adjust on the 5DII works quite well. I am very picky, I'll be the first to admit, but for essentially $0 recurring cost, they should have added this feature.

Ehrik said:
Other minor disappointments (not surprised, though):
No change to the grip.

Actually, it looks like they did make it a little bigger.

--
Rick Krejci
http://www.ricksastro.com

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T1i...the good, the bad, the ugly

RicksAstro

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