D100 sharpness and prints

Hi!

I don't have a D100 yet, however it seems to me that this sharpness issue can only be really addressed when you print the photos.

Has anyone printed test jpgs from the d100, D60 and S2 ?

I think that when someone does this the conclusion will be that no one can actually see the difference in sharpness and detail from these cameras.

Of course you can see the difference on screen, but does it really matter? If you want to show someone your photos on the web you wont be showing the full 3008x2000. You will resize it considerably. When doing so the photos will become very sharp.

So, come on guys! Lets start printing those files ! ! !

Shaques said:

Has anyone printed test jpgs from the d100, D60 and S2 ?

Click to expand...

I can't compare print of the D60 vs the D100 and I am a harsh critic of the D100 jpeg sharpness, however I can tell you that I printed 4"x6" photo at Ritz Camera with new equipment (on photo paper) and A4 photos with my Epson photo780 printer.

End up that even it was at a bigger size, the same photo(s) are much sharper on the Epson. The Ritz/Wolf 4x6 kind of suck but clearly is not the camera. I printed a CD with photo coming from the D100 and the CP950 can't tell the difference.

ON A4 though the difference is big. The D100 is SHARP can't have a better picture than that. Nobody believes that these photos were taken with a digital camera. Noise is impossible to notice as well.

This is my experience. I was planning to print everything on photo paper, now I'm rethinking that and I might buy a big epson printer with indipendent colors.

Regards
Gabriele

I'm still waiting on mine as well, but I have taken some of the originals that people have posted, and the ones that some people have kindly sent to me (Thanks to Robert Briggs!), and printed 8 x10's on my Canon S800....All I can say is wow! These pics are sharp.

Teski

Shaques said:

Hi!

I don't have a D100 yet, however it seems to me that this sharpness
issue can only be really addressed when you print the photos.

Has anyone printed test jpgs from the d100, D60 and S2 ?

I think that when someone does this the conclusion will be that no
one can actually see the difference in sharpness and detail from
these cameras.

Of course you can see the difference on screen, but does it really
matter? If you want to show someone your photos on the web you wont
be showing the full 3008x2000. You will resize it considerably.
When doing so the photos will become very sharp.

So, come on guys! Lets start printing those files ! ! !

Click to expand...

Using my lens res chart, I can see quite a noticeable difference in sharpness between nef and jpeg when viewed 200% on screen.

I can also see more noise in non USMed nefs compared to non USMed jpgs (although the jpeg noise rises to match the nefs when a lot of USM is applied).

However, printed A4 on my Epson 1270, I can see no detectable difference in sharpness or any visible noise (ISO 200).

Prints are noticeably cleaner and more detailed than shots from my E10 (ISO 80).

And I am only using budget lenses. My 50mm F1.8 arrived today so I can test it to find out whether a really sharp lens makes any difference.

I hope not actually, as it will save me a £1000 in high class primes...

Anyone tried bigger prints yet?

Shaques said:

Hi!

I don't have a D100 yet, however it seems to me that this sharpness
issue can only be really addressed when you print the photos.

Has anyone printed test jpgs from the d100, D60 and S2 ?

I think that when someone does this the conclusion will be that no
one can actually see the difference in sharpness and detail from
these cameras.

Of course you can see the difference on screen, but does it really
matter? If you want to show someone your photos on the web you wont
be showing the full 3008x2000. You will resize it considerably.
When doing so the photos will become very sharp.

So, come on guys! Lets start printing those files ! ! !

Click to expand...

Canon printer? Lucky you, you will be admiring your 8th print just about the time my first print pops out of the Epson

teski said:

Teski

Shaques said:

Hi!

I don't have a D100 yet, however it seems to me that this sharpness
issue can only be really addressed when you print the photos.

Has anyone printed test jpgs from the d100, D60 and S2 ?

I think that when someone does this the conclusion will be that no
one can actually see the difference in sharpness and detail from
these cameras.

Of course you can see the difference on screen, but does it really
matter? If you want to show someone your photos on the web you wont
be showing the full 3008x2000. You will resize it considerably.
When doing so the photos will become very sharp.

So, come on guys! Lets start printing those files ! ! !

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

My experience with a number of prints made from my D100 (JPEG fine/large, normal sharpening) is that the quality of prints (12" x 18") made in a custom lab here in Dallas (BWC) is fully equal to those taken at the same time and with the same lens with my F100 using Fuji Provia 100F slide film (drum scans to same Fuji printer). All the discussion about NEF is interesting but for me the JPEG and in-camera sharpening works just fine.

Shaques said:

Hi!

I don't have a D100 yet, however it seems to me that this sharpness
issue can only be really addressed when you print the photos.

Has anyone printed test jpgs from the d100, D60 and S2 ?

I think that when someone does this the conclusion will be that no
one can actually see the difference in sharpness and detail from
these cameras.

Of course you can see the difference on screen, but does it really
matter? If you want to show someone your photos on the web you wont
be showing the full 3008x2000. You will resize it considerably.
When doing so the photos will become very sharp.

So, come on guys! Lets start printing those files ! ! !

Click to expand...

--
FrankS

Man Shaques, you have that right!! I've printer almost 100 pages in the last few days comparing the D100 and S2. I don't have the D60 and don't care to either. These are both steller camera's. I've shown 8x10 prints made with identical lens/settings etc to several people and nobody can choose a winner. It takes a very scrutinized examination to notice any difference at all. I've got one shot where the grass on the S2 print looks a little "grassier" than the D100 which looks smoother. It took me 3 days to finally notice that! I've even take small crops and printed them at 5x7 to see if the "detail" enlarges better, to little or no avail.

Now take all of that with a disclaimer. Because Mike Chaney (Qimage) just came out with a beta of a FUJI S2 Raw conversion support in Qimage. I've been using it and it does a much better job pulling detail out of the S2 RAF with excellent colors.

What I've really found is that I like BOTH camera's! The quality build of the D100 can't be beat...except by the D1 series. The Fuji S2 though comes out with a much better image. I've found the exposure to be right on and the on camera flash to be right on. The D100, I don't have that same consistency. It would be nice to not have to level/curve correct each D100 image. I know that I could dial in +.3ev or +.7ev which would help...maybe I'll try that. Anyways, I've got some original TIF/RAW/JPG files at ISO 200 & 800 from both camera's at http://kevroc.hypermart.net/images if you want to print them out yourself.

Thanks,

Kevin R.

Shaques said:

Hi!

I don't have a D100 yet, however it seems to me that this sharpness
issue can only be really addressed when you print the photos.

Has anyone printed test jpgs from the d100, D60 and S2 ?

I think that when someone does this the conclusion will be that no
one can actually see the difference in sharpness and detail from
these cameras.

Of course you can see the difference on screen, but does it really
matter? If you want to show someone your photos on the web you wont
be showing the full 3008x2000. You will resize it considerably.
When doing so the photos will become very sharp.

So, come on guys! Lets start printing those files ! ! !

Click to expand...

First of all, though I own a D60, when reading this comment, please know that I am not trying to slam another brand just because I happen to own one. I always try to remain unbias in my opinions and have never put down one for another because of it (you can read my other posts). I do not subscribe to the 'Nikonians are better than Canonians, and vice versa' attitude. To me, it's a waiste of time, and, in the end, the photographer always makes the biggest difference, not the equipment.

OK, now with that out of the way, I have a friend with whom I spent the day shooting. Me and my D60, him with his D100. We stood side by side and took the same shot at the same time with the same settings.

On a 6X4 print, you could not tell a difference. Both were perfect. The difference came in on an 8X10. There you could see a little difference. Not a huge difference, but enough for people to notice (by that I mean non photographers). The D60 prints did look a little sharper. On a 13X19, it was much clearer. The D60 was noticeably sharper.

I've never tried, or even seen the S2, so I can't comment on the printing quality yet, though I have heard it is awesome!

--
Khena
http://www.excaliburphotography.com

Before I bought the D100, I printed on my Epson 890 several pictures from Phil's reviews/previews of the D60 and comparable shot of the same subject with the D100. Both were equal and no one I showed the prints to could tell any difference at all. I printed at 8x10" size. I bought the D100 because it sounded like it may be better at focusing and it was available where the D60 wasn't.
--
Mike Tichon

DMillier said:

Anyone tried bigger prints yet?

Click to expand...

Yeap,

I printed a D100 beta image at 20 x 30", even at that size, from a viewing distance of more than a foot and a half away the image is very sharp and clean. I would guess that the three cameras are so close, that you wouldn't be able to see the difference in print until you get to something like 42" prints, on the scale of what people are viewing these images at on screen! This makes sense, as all three cameras produce images that are smooth and sharp from 75% view on screen and lower at least on my monitor, it's only at 100% view and greater does the difference in "sharpness" show itself. I have prints of D100, D60 and D1x images at 8 x 10 they are all flawless at that size.

Regards,

--

Khena said:

First of all, though I own a D60, when reading this comment, please
know that I am not trying to slam another brand just because I
happen to own one. I always try to remain unbias in my opinions and
have never put down one for another because of it (you can read my
other posts). I do not subscribe to the 'Nikonians are better than
Canonians, and vice versa' attitude. To me, it's a waiste of time,
and, in the end, the photographer always makes the biggest
difference, not the equipment.

OK, now with that out of the way, I have a friend with whom I spent
the day shooting. Me and my D60, him with his D100. We stood side
by side and took the same shot at the same time with the same
settings.
On a 6X4 print, you could not tell a difference. Both were perfect.
The difference came in on an 8X10. There you could see a little
difference. Not a huge difference, but enough for people to notice
(by that I mean non photographers). The D60 prints did look a
little sharper. On a 13X19, it was much clearer. The D60 was
noticeably sharper.

I've never tried, or even seen the S2, so I can't comment on the
printing quality yet, though I have heard it is awesome!

--
Khena
http://www.excaliburphotography.com

Click to expand...

What were the respective camera settings? (no or normal sharpening). Lens used by both of you?
--
Dr. John

Cameras were set at 200 ISO for both (since D100 didn't have a 100 ISO),

We tried different sharpening. On the D60 at -1, 0, and +1. On the D100 we tried low, normal, high, and none.
On the D60 I had a 28-135IS lens.
On the D100, It was a Nikkor lens, 28-105.

Shots were taken at 28mm and 50mm.

When comparing shots we compared every shot against every other shots. The D60 -1 sharpening was almost identical to the D100 with high sharpening, though the sharpening on the D100 created artifacts, noticeable on the bigger prints (13X19).

Both did respond much better to PS sharpening, and I would suggest setting the D100 and the D60 to no sharpening when shooting. PS does wonders. Some details did show up on the D60 shots that did not on the D100, which no amount of sharpening would have helped (can't sharpen what's not there).

Hope this helps.

John Parham said:

What were the respective camera settings? (no or normal
sharpening). Lens used by both of you?
--
Dr. John

Click to expand...

--
Khena
http://www.excaliburphotography.com

Having just bought a D100 (primary purpose was to use my lenses and extra control aspects) I was at first concerned about he sharpness issue mentioned by many of you in the D100 forum. The pictures I had taken with the D100 within this past month - including about 400 of them at an auto race here in DC - seemed terrific to me (with mainstream, moderately priced lenses: 24-120mm, 60mm macro, 70-300mm). But to allay (or heighten) my concern, I set up a test at home: I took a closely controlled set of closeup pictures of carpenter measuring instruments and tools with both the D100 and my other digital camera, a Sony 707 (FYI: great camera, not quite enough control for me, ergo the D100. But it will become my point-n-shoot). For me, the 707 has always delivered (5,000+ images to date) extremely sharp images with its Zeiss lens. Taking into account the roughly 1 MP difference between the D100 and the 707, I nevertheless found NO DISCERNABLE DIFFERENCE IN SHARPNESS, even to a 150% blowup/crop, printed out on an Epson 1270, using both Fotostation 4.5 and Photoshop 7 software packages. Bottom line, I am a happy camper and find that this sharpness argument may be a bit esoteric and, as someone in this thread pointed out, may be wrongly focused, i.e., owners should concentrate on taking good pictures and if necessary, let the photo editing package automatically handle the sharpness and contrast issues. When I print a 16x19 image, I adjust all kinds of things, including sharpness, and creating a megafile, so again, the sharpness issue is taken care of, if that's even necessary. Finally, please also remember Phil's D100 review opening page educated guess that Sony makes the chips for its and Nikon cameras - and probably others as well! Now as to the BW bracketing issue.....(Nikon is sending me the mailer, 3-4 day total out-of-my-possession period. Reasonable.)

Shaques said:

Hi!

I don't have a D100 yet, however it seems to me that this sharpness
issue can only be really addressed when you print the photos.

Has anyone printed test jpgs from the d100, D60 and S2 ?

I think that when someone does this the conclusion will be that no
one can actually see the difference in sharpness and detail from
these cameras.

Of course you can see the difference on screen, but does it really
matter? If you want to show someone your photos on the web you wont
be showing the full 3008x2000. You will resize it considerably.
When doing so the photos will become very sharp.

So, come on guys! Lets start printing those files ! ! !

Click to expand...

--
Ted K.

....Ya but I must like torture because I have put in an order for the new Epson 2200....I've been hearing great things about it excpept for that they didn't include the grey balancing software in the US model. I'll take a slower printer for better quality pics with more longevity.

Teski

DMillier said:

teski said:

Teski

Shaques said:

Hi!

I don't have a D100 yet, however it seems to me that this sharpness
issue can only be really addressed when you print the photos.

Has anyone printed test jpgs from the d100, D60 and S2 ?

I think that when someone does this the conclusion will be that no
one can actually see the difference in sharpness and detail from
these cameras.

Of course you can see the difference on screen, but does it really
matter? If you want to show someone your photos on the web you wont
be showing the full 3008x2000. You will resize it considerably.
When doing so the photos will become very sharp.

So, come on guys! Lets start printing those files ! ! !

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Kevin, I've read several of your posts, and found the D100/S2 comparison discussions very helpful. You seem to be unbiased and honest in your appraisals. So I'm very interested in your opinion of the D60. You stated below that you didn't care to have one. Why?

Kevin F.

Kevin Roczey said:

Man Shaques, you have that right!! I've printer almost 100 pages
in the last few days comparing the D100 and S2. I don't have the
D60 and don't care to either. These are both steller camera's.
I've shown 8x10 prints made with identical lens/settings etc to
several people and nobody can choose a winner. It takes a very
scrutinized examination to notice any difference at all. I've got
one shot where the grass on the S2 print looks a little "grassier"
than the D100 which looks smoother. It took me 3 days to finally
notice that! I've even take small crops and printed them at 5x7
to see if the "detail" enlarges better, to little or no avail.

Now take all of that with a disclaimer. Because Mike Chaney
(Qimage) just came out with a beta of a FUJI S2 Raw conversion
support in Qimage. I've been using it and it does a much better
job pulling detail out of the S2 RAF with excellent colors.

What I've really found is that I like BOTH camera's! The quality
build of the D100 can't be beat...except by the D1 series. The
Fuji S2 though comes out with a much better image. I've found the
exposure to be right on and the on camera flash to be right on.
The D100, I don't have that same consistency. It would be nice to
not have to level/curve correct each D100 image. I know that I
could dial in +.3ev or +.7ev which would help...maybe I'll try
that. Anyways, I've got some original TIF/RAW/JPG files at ISO 200
& 800 from both camera's at http://kevroc.hypermart.net/images if
you want to print them out yourself.

Thanks,

Kevin R.

Click to expand...

Shaques said:

Hi!

I don't have a D100 yet, however it seems to me that this sharpness
issue can only be really addressed when you print the photos.

Click to expand...

Yes the D-100 is sharp both jpg and nef I have printed 10x16's from both and they are photo quality (epson 1200). Yes you see stuff on the computer at 200-400%, but it just doesn't matter in real life.
bob

Ha! Bet you won't say that so easilyafter you've waited 40 minutes for an A3 print!!!

teski said:

....Ya but I must like torture because I have put in an order for the new Epson 2200....I've been hearing great things about it excpept for that they didn't include the grey balancing software in the US model. I'll take a slower printer for better quality pics with more longevity.

Teski

DMillier said:

teski said:

Teski

Shaques said:

Hi!

I don't have a D100 yet, however it seems to me that this sharpness
issue can only be really addressed when you print the photos.

Has anyone printed test jpgs from the d100, D60 and S2 ?

I think that when someone does this the conclusion will be that no
one can actually see the difference in sharpness and detail from
these cameras.

Of course you can see the difference on screen, but does it really
matter? If you want to show someone your photos on the web you wont
be showing the full 3008x2000. You will resize it considerably.
When doing so the photos will become very sharp.

So, come on guys! Lets start printing those files ! ! !

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Hi!

Gabriele Sartori said:

Noise is impossible to notice as well.

Click to expand...

When I read this, I begin to think that I got a bad very noisy unit as I can recognize noise as well in print on my epson at ISO 200 or ISO 400 all the time. Noise in print is only gone if I do not sharpen the images, but then I have a sharpness issue too... sigh...

Gabriele Sartori said:

This is my experience. I was planning to print everything on photo
paper, now I'm rethinking that and I might buy a big epson printer
with indipendent colors.

Click to expand...

How big? (-;

Regards, A. Schiele

Alfred

Why don't you send me a typical image and I'll print it out at A4 and see if I think there is visible noise?

It's possible that this is an issue about personal perception - presumably some people can see noise easier than others or perhaps are more irritated by it.

If your D100 seems noisy in prints to you, you may be left with no option other than selling and getting a D60...

alfred_schiele said:

alfred_schiele said:

Noise is impossible to notice as well.

Click to expand...

When I read this, I begin to think that I got a bad very noisy unit
as I can recognize noise as well in print on my epson at ISO 200 or
ISO 400 all the time. Noise in print is only gone if I do not
sharpen the images, but then I have a sharpness issue too... sigh...

alfred_schiele said:

This is my experience. I was planning to print everything on photo
paper, now I'm rethinking that and I might buy a big epson printer
with indipendent colors.

Click to expand...

How big? (-;

Regards, A. Schiele

Click to expand...

What format did you used in both camera? Jpeg or nef?

Khena said:

Shots were taken at 28mm and 50mm.

When comparing shots we compared every shot against every other
shots. The D60 -1 sharpening was almost identical to the D100 with
high sharpening, though the sharpening on the D100 created
artifacts, noticeable on the bigger prints (13X19).

Both did respond much better to PS sharpening, and I would suggest
setting the D100 and the D60 to no sharpening when shooting. PS
does wonders. Some details did show up on the D60 shots that did
not on the D100, which no amount of sharpening would have helped
(can't sharpen what's not there).

Hope this helps.

Khena said:

What were the respective camera settings? (no or normal
sharpening). Lens used by both of you?
--
Dr. John

Click to expand...

--
Khena
http://www.excaliburphotography.com

Click to expand...