E-3/E-30/E-620/E-520/G1 ISO IQ comparison...

Brian:

Very interesting. Thanks for the effort here. Unfortunately, most of us cannot perform a comparison such as this because we don't have access to all the cameras. It would be more meaningful to me to see the same type of comparison done with the jpeg output straight from the camera with NO pp. I realize what is possible when using RAW files, but the vast majority of my photos are in jpeg do to not having the time to process lots of images.

I am sure the way you did it is preferred by the pro and semi-pro shooters. Good work.

One question: I notice some focus point or DF differences. Were all these shots manual focus or auto focus? I don't see how there could be DF differences when the same lens was used with each camera.
--
Don L.
E-30

It's taken consistent effort over the last 18 months to develop enough trust with Olympus for the passionate photographers in our group, to be given this opportunity - I truly appreciate the support and understanding dpreview have also shown towards our non-commercial community.

The images were recorded as RAW, but the output from Studio is practically identical to in-camera JPEG. No post processing was done to manipulate the crops in any way - intact, they are as close to unprocessed as possible.

In addition, I can upload whichever Raw files our members wish to examine in detail using whichever workflow they prefer.

If you know what JPEG settings you would have preferred these images to be captured - let me know and I can create them for you using Olympus Studio. Shooting Raw gives us that flexibility.

More importantly, we will have 20 or so photographers tomorrow able to give you their own opinions and observations... And another dozen of more on Monday in a completely different setting.

Kind Regards

Brian
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Hi Brian,

thanks a lot for the effort. Very interesting results!

I seem to see different images than the rest of the folks here, though, since I find the E-620 to deliver much worse results than the rest of the field, both at ISO 100 and at ISO 3200, with the exception of the G1 at High-ISO, but I would relate that at least partly to the different RAW converter used.

But I don't want to believe that the E-620 really is that bad, and I fear that Olympus Studio – just like Olympus Master – applies different levels of post-processing, i.e. different sharpening, different noise reduction, for different models, in order to exactly emulate their respective JPEG engines, which, of course, are differently calibrated in the first place.

The problem is that "zero NR" and "zero sharpening" most probably do something completely different for the E-3 than they do for the E-620 or the E-30, which unfortunately would diminish the comparability of results processed with Studio.

Other converters bear other problems, though. ACR, for example, potentially applies extremely different levels of pre-processing (sharpness, noise reduction, contrast, colours...) on images from different cameras, depending on what the developer of the respective camera profile thought to see fit.

Wouldn't it perhaps be worthwhile, if it only was for such tests, to look for a RAW converter that might produce more comparable results?

Cheers and thanks again,
Robert

Brian Mosley said:

Next time, I will take more care to get the focus consistently spot
on... I wanted to shoot at f4 to ensure the back wall was out of
focus - to show the Raw levels of noise.

Click to expand...

You could place a paper a bit behind the subject to get a featureless background. Since the degree of sharpening affects the noise levels greatly it's good if the DOF is deep enough to make the main subject sharp to allow to asses the conversion sharpening. To me the E-3 looks less sharpened than the other shots, despite same converter settings, but I may be mistaken. Maybe they feel a pro (E-3) user wants less sharpening and contrast by default than a consumer (lower end bodies).

Using M mode with the same shutter and aperture for all shots may also be a good idea.

Not to criticise, just suggestions. Taking test shots for the benefit of the community is a very generous thing to do.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden

Thanks Brian,
Very interesting. one would like to see all these comparisons in line.
Impossible, I know on DPreview on this scale.

Colour rendering on the G1 is very different and ISO 3200 looks worth then the E-620. Cannot see that the G1 sensor is the sharpest, but if you say so.
I like the camera very much for the use of legacy lenses.
Greetings, Michiel
--
http://www.michielschierbeek.com

For me, it is really hard to tell in that comparison. The 620 is darker and also seems sharper than the E3 and E30. The 620 also seems less yellow-ish and richer in overall tone. And more pleasing. I don't know if that is because of the difference in darkness or what? And does that effect the visible noise too?

But, from those photos and to my eyes, noise is the only thing in the 620 photo that doesn't look better than the other photos. Everything else, to me, looks better in the 620 shot.

--
Stu
E510, TZ4
.

it's one of the best.

--
Raist3d (Photographer & Tools/Systems/Gui Games Developer)
Andreas Feininger (1906-1999) 'Photographers — idiots, of which there are
so many — say, “Oh, if only I had a Nikon or a Leica, I could make great
photographs.” That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. It’s
nothing but a matter of seeing, and thinking, and interest. That’s what
makes a good photograph.'

This is all very good.

A lot of useful information here.

--
-- Protect the little people! --

Raist3d said:

it's one of the best.

Click to expand...

If it wouldn't be for the noise, I'd say you're right.

Not too long ago, I would have rated any significantly visible ISO 100 noise unacceptable for a DSLR.

And while I, since then, even have somewhat accepted the fact that my E-410 and E-510 routinely produce significant ISO 100 noise in their JPEGs if I don't activate their overly detail-destroying noise filter (I can work around the problem using a decent RAW converter), at ISO 100 I can honestly say I have not seen anything like the E-620 noise shown here before (out of a DSLR).

Even if it may be just slightly worse than the E-30 or G1 – maybe it simply surpassed some inner limit there, for me.

And I still hope, like I already mentioned, that it's not really the camera's fault, but that it's caused by something like too aggressive sharpening in coincidence with too little noise reduction by Olympus Studio, similar to the E-410/510's JPEG engine behaviour with noise filter switched off.

Cheers,
Robert

So that people could print the entire range in one A3 print... as far as I'm concerned, ISO 100 is perfectly fine for all of these.

Cheers

Brian
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I think E30 sample has a slightly missed AF, similar like E3. The focus is not on the hand nor on the arm, but in the middle.

Thanks Brian for these samples, but I'm afraid you cannot judge sharpness out of these photographs, only grain/noise. 'Cause AF spots have to be the same in all samples.

But it's interesting how E620 has much worse noise on 3200 than E30...hmm.

--
ivframes.com

and the E-30.

Or much from the E-3 for that matter. ISO 100. Keep in mind the exposure too.

--
Raist3d (Photographer & Tools/Systems/Gui Games Developer)
Andreas Feininger (1906-1999) 'Photographers — idiots, of which there are
so many — say, “Oh, if only I had a Nikon or a Leica, I could make great
photographs.” That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. It’s
nothing but a matter of seeing, and thinking, and interest. That’s what
makes a good photograph.'

the exposure was all the same for all of them, but still good to get an idea.

--
Raist3d (Photographer & Tools/Systems/Gui Games Developer)
Andreas Feininger (1906-1999) 'Photographers — idiots, of which there are
so many — say, “Oh, if only I had a Nikon or a Leica, I could make great
photographs.” That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. It’s
nothing but a matter of seeing, and thinking, and interest. That’s what
makes a good photograph.'

--
John K
(Oly E510, E520 & rest of gear in profile if interested)

I went to the site, looked, even signed up for report, still can't locate. I think I need a bigger hint please.
Thanks for your welcome, I appreciate it.
Regards,
Jolene
--



My galleries-- http://www.zenfolio.com/jolieo

Brian,

Thank you for the post.
Great work! Thank You.

lol, guess when you do a 100% crop ... it better be on the AF point

I also do think ... even when doing a iso noise compair ... sharpness is important. It's that right balance, that makes high iso performance great imho.

• p.s. imho ... that 90-250 f2.8 ... now, that's a useful lens imho.

That's my dream long zoom lens

HG

--

Please feel free to criticize, make suggestions, and edit any of my photos & re-post, to help show me 'the way'. * I am trying to Elevate the Level of my 'Snap Shots'

Love f2 Oly lens wide open ... 14-35mm f2, & a 50mm f2+1.4TC is my fav. combo on two 'IS' oly bodys.

Rich Simpson UK said:

Brian, the point I am making is that if you if you set up both the
E30 and the E520, in precisely the same circumstances, with same
lens, same settings, same field of view etc, then then for the same
correct exposure, if the E30 gves a correct meter reading at 0.0 EV,
then "typically", the E520 exposure will be correct at less ie -0.3
or -0.7 EV. Typically, since obviously the amount of EV comp depends
on the tonal value of the scene.

But I normally have to set the E520 at -0.7 EV if the E30 is at
0.0EV, and others report the same thing.

Click to expand...

This is what I LOVE about reading this forum ... you get to see how other use the same gear.

I "think" I might be the odd one here.
Because I am trying to shoot for face exp. day or night.

I find on the e520 I am at EV +.3 or +.7 on most of my shots when I need to be on A priority. I shoot in RAW and let LRv2.3 bump the Recovery to save the highlights.

Sometimes, if I am not careful ... I might blow the highlights ... but normally those might not be important ... (if it was I would be in M). and I can normally PP.

Have been exposing to the right ... even on the e520 at the risk of blown Highlights ... I seem to like the colors better, after a LR auto exp pre-set, as a starting point.

when I underexpose on skin ... it seems to create more PP time.
and fyi: Hawaii dark skin people do not want to "look" Dark.

• only fair skin (not from Hawaii) wants to look "more" tanned, and I have to warm it up for them.

HG

--

Please feel free to criticize, make suggestions, and edit any of my photos & re-post, to help show me 'the way'. * I am trying to Elevate the Level of my 'Snap Shots'

Love f2 Oly lens wide open ... 14-35mm f2, & a 50mm f2+1.4TC is my fav. combo on two 'IS' oly bodys.

You've registered as a 'report subscriber' and should have received an e-mail with access to all of our published reports... to upgrade your membership to active Safari Group member, and help to guide our 'live' E-620 field tests please click on this link and fill in the form :

http://www.alert-central.co.uk/personalinvite.php?by=Brian%20Mosley

Our E-620 team review diary will have lots of personal observations from early adopters all around the world - other team members can challenge those observations and ask specific questions... We'll try to gather all of this live info into a future report for our subscribers.

Sorry for the confusion.

Kind Regards

Brian
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I should have noted in my original post that I failed to focus consistently on exactly the same spot for all 29 exposures across the 5 different cameras.

I should have used 10x live view and focused manually, but this was a bit of a race against time and I was looking for enough detail in the foreground along with nicely oof dark background in a poorly lit situation to show the unprocessed IQ of each camera across the ISO range.

To be fair, the tight pixel level crops make the focus point chosen more critical - in the full size shots you can see the detailed in-focus areas and get a better feel for sharpness.

But as I said, this is the first blast of info... Look to the professional lab tests here at dpreview when they arrive for the definitive reference.

Kind Regards

Brian
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Thanks Ricardo, not sure what you think is less accurate about testing the AP AE of each camera across the ISO range... this shows there may be a difference.

I'd like to repeat the test, if I get a chance - so any suggestions for an improved approach would be most welcome.

Cheers

Brian
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