XSi/450D AF Testers - Please Read..............

To all the complainers/testers..........
Please Download and READ this.......
http://focustestchart.com/focus21.pdf
It's from here......
http://focustestchart.com/index.html

It was written about a Nikon D70 but it applies here just as well.

I hate to say it,
Not really,

Most of the persons complaining here about AF simply don't no how or what to test, Period!

No doubt a few bodies are really defective and some lenses surely are, but most of the “test” I have seen posted here are faulty testing, not the equipment. (Not all the test, but most)

And PLEASE don't expect a

(Even a > $1500 dollar Zoom Wide angle lens is not "razor" sharp wide open) You've got to be realistic.

PLEASE...... DOWNLOAD & READ this .pdf linked above.
I think it will help some users out.
AJMJ

It seems that nowadays there are more people complaining about people complaining than the original complaints

Anyway, why do I get the distinct impression that this post was directed at my post about my decentered kit lens? If it is then please, credit me with at least some intelligence... I do know how to use those test charts properly. But if you knew what a decentered lens actually means or at least what its symptoms were then you'd know why I was using the test chart in the way I did.

I wasn't testing for front/back focus, I was using it to demonstrate that the focal plane of the lens was not perpendicular to the direction it was pointed. Anyway, I've got over that now so there's no need to dwell on it any further.

Yes, I know.....

The technical description of how "phase detect AF" actually works is technically incorrect in the white paper, but the testing criteria’s all still apply.

A horizontal sensor can only detect and judge distance _ in one phase direction.
A vertical sensor can only detect and judge distance | in one phase direction.
A cross-type sensor + can detect and judge distance in both phase directions.

On most Canons the actual sensors cover 3 times the area as shown by the squares so it is very easily for the AF to get the wrong item in its field of view.
Reflections of glass, mirrors and shiny items will also fool the sensors

Just use "it" more and test "it" less and I bet "it" will work better.
GOOD LUCK ALL
AJMJ

As to this post being directed directly at you for that particular round of complaining no, but to you and some others in general, well yes.

Yes I believe that I completely understand lens test charts and unless your chart is perfectly flat and exactly 90° to the lens axis and centered perfectly, then that test is also very flawed.
I do have in over 30+ years of learning about and using SLR Cameras.

An artist I am definitely not, but as a person who has taken thousands and thousands of product and technical photos, plus I have done lots of copy stand work, I think I do understand the basics of lens centering and their flaws.

I think that you have been your own worst enemy in looking for absolute perfection.

Please don’t put up with a truly defective product, but...........

If the equipment does not suit you after as many tries as you have given it, just get rid of it and move on.

You’ve got to be somewhat realistic in your expectations because I am pretty sure it will NEVER make you happy using your current test criteria.
Good Luck
AJMJ

I tested using this chart before sending my 450D+Sigma 18-50 f2.8 in for calibration.

I have very distinct front focus using AF. No problems using MF.

That's a good idea for those who wish to test.
If you do so, please share your crops.

--
Pabletto

You will find faults when you look for it: even a master art is full of faults if you try to find it. Where there are some focusing error, most often than not, its the USER's FAULT.

I like to add one more thing: don't expect any third party lens (Tamron / Sigma) to focus with 100% accuracy. If you're going to test a Camera's Focusing system, by all means, please use a Canon lens to rule out third-party reverse-engineering error.

AJMJ said:

To all the complainers/testers..........
Please Download and READ this.......
http://focustestchart.com/focus21.pdf
It's from here......
http://focustestchart.com/index.html

It was written about a Nikon D70 but it applies here just as well.

I hate to say it,
Not really,
Most of the persons complaining here about AF simply don't no how or
what to test, Period!

No doubt a few bodies are really defective and some lenses surely
are, but most of the “test” I have seen posted here are faulty
testing, not the equipment. (Not all the test, but most)

And PLEASE don't expect a
open at 18mm.
(Even a > $1500 dollar Zoom Wide angle lens is not "razor" sharp wide
open) You've got to be realistic.

PLEASE...... DOWNLOAD & READ this .pdf linked above.
I think it will help some users out.
AJMJ

Click to expand...

AJMJ said:

And PLEASE don't expect a
open at 18mm.
(Even a > $1500 dollar Zoom Wide angle lens is not "razor" sharp wide
open) You've got to be realistic.

Click to expand...

Except for the fact that the kit is very sharp when wide and open to the extent that it's not giving anything away to the far more expensive 17-55 f2.8 regardless of aperture (sharpness wise anyway).

Read the review

http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos/181-canon-ef-s-18-55mm-f35-56-is-test-report--review?start=1

It's a common defence that the kit is soft wide open and people don't know the difference between soft and out of focus. I chuckle at the irony everytime I read that

AJMJ said:

It was written about a Nikon D70 but it applies here just as well.

AJMJ said:

And PLEASE don't expect a

Click to expand...

open at 18mm.

Click to expand...

Funny, my kit lens is always sharp when I use contrast detection....I have never seen complaints on here when using contrast detection.

The newly designed mirror seems like a good possibility for the AF woes. Shame on Canon!

--

The AF problems seem to be out of proportion for the 450D compared to other Canon models. All things being equal, people who have used other Canon models before have simply forgotten how to use a DSLR or that people new to DSLRs have a disproportionate number who dont know how to use the AF on the 450 only. I have read and heard all the excuses. My personal feeling is that there is definitely some mechanical problem with a percentage of the 450D models ( small percentage but certainly much more than with other Rebels models) and Canon has not or will not at least acknowledge, much less, address the users' complaints. Are the AF problems that are reported partly due to user error, of course. But statistically it would be the same for all models. The AF problems on the 450D are out of proportion to all Rebels. I am weary of reading posts by the so called "experts" on these forums who redicule posters who express frustration and dissatisfaction whit the 450D AF. They are labeled either as trolls or idiots who do not "understand" the 450D AF system. And then they suggest that if the owner is not satisfied with the camea they should send it in for repair or send the lens in for caliblration...in other words send it back to fix the non existant problem.

AJMJ said:

To all the complainers/testers..........
Please Download and READ this.......
http://focustestchart.com/focus21.pdf
It's from here......
http://focustestchart.com/index.html

It was written about a Nikon D70 but it applies here just as well.

I hate to say it,
Not really,
Most of the persons complaining here about AF simply don't no how or
what to test, Period!

No doubt a few bodies are really defective and some lenses surely
are, but most of the “test” I have seen posted here are faulty
testing, not the equipment. (Not all the test, but most)

Click to expand...

Excellent post and link many thanks.

Adrian.

AJMJ said:

And PLEASE don't expect a
open at 18mm.
(Even a > $1500 dollar Zoom Wide angle lens is not "razor" sharp wide
open) You've got to be realistic.

PLEASE...... DOWNLOAD & READ this .pdf linked above.
I think it will help some users out.
AJMJ

Click to expand...

LFS wrote:
And then they

LFS said:

suggest that if the owner is not satisfied with the camea they should
send it in for repair or send the lens in for caliblration...in other
words send it back to fix the non existant problem.

Click to expand...

What is your solution sir?

Jim

Jim Holtz said:

Jim Holtz said:

suggest that if the owner is not satisfied with the camea they should
send it in for repair or send the lens in for caliblration...in other
words send it back to fix the non existant problem.

Click to expand...

What is your solution sir?

Jim

Click to expand...

That posters who come for advice and to share experiences are left to get on with it instead of being told that there is no point posting because no one here can fix their camera.

My joining post to this forum spoke shared my bad experience with the 450D, how I exchanged for a second one, still wasn't happy and gave it back for a full refund. I then had posters jump on me, tell me that there was no point in posting as no one here could fix it for me and I had two choices - get it serviced or give it back (future tense). The poster hadn't even read my post and was simply arguing from a reflexive "faith based" position as to why I was posting and telling me how I should behave. Very poor.

--Well I would start with acknowledging that there may be a problem. As for a solution, I am not a camera manufacturer..maybe a software adjustment...but Canon would have to admit to a possible problem and so far they have not

Bah, mine may be back focusing with the kit lens... I took several photos on the tripod with the self timer. Guess I should try it with IS off as well?



The 3 mb original can be downloaded at

http://www.redwrench.com/2009/
focustest.jpg

So now what? Test it with another lens? I need to change the WB. Tungsten is too blue.

Ok, my focus test comes out much better with the Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8. It's the kit lens that sucks on my camera. BAH.

LFS said:

Well I would start with acknowledging that there may be a problem.

Click to expand...

Even if there isn't one?

LFS said:

As for a solution, I am not a camera manufacturer..maybe a software
adjustment...but Canon would have to admit to a possible problem and
so far they have not

Click to expand...

A software adjustment to fix a non existent problem? You don't own a 450D do you? Why are you so convinced that all the reported problems in this forum are genuine? Do you really believe everything you read on the internet?

You go around in every single "focus problem" thread supporting posters who report problems - most of the times without seeing the evidence or ascertaining the experience level of the user. I'm not that easily convinced, sorry. I've participated in countless threads where the "problems" were attributed to user error, inexperience or bad technique.

Cheers
HighPriest

highpriest said:

LFS said:

Well I would start with acknowledging that there may be a problem.

Click to expand...

Even if there isn't one?

Click to expand...

What would you accept as evidence that there might be a problem?

WilbaW said:

What would you accept as evidence that there might be a problem?

Click to expand...

A chance to test one of these "problem" cameras myself. Nothing else unfortunately (except, of course, an article/tech report from Canon themselves regarding this).

If anyone with such a camera is willing to lend it to me for a few hours, I'm happy to run a few tests using my own lenses (which I know work absolutely perfect on my 400D) and report back. I live in Edinburgh, Scotland and can be contacted via email. Serious request!

Cheers
HighPriest

How is this a solution and what will be the outcome of your process?

Jim