Can't turn off MASTER flash in CLS - HELP!!!!

Thanks. I am a professional but am admittedly new to the CLS system. I ordinarily use Profoto strobes in the studio.

My reasons are as follows:

(1) I shoot mostly portraits and the pre-flash from the on-camera master is distracting to the subject. (It's possible I may be doing something wrong here -- I seem to recall reading that the lag between the two flashes may be a result of having it set on FP flash mode?)

(2) For portraits, depending on what other lighting is going on and my distance to the subject, the on-camera master can create an additional catchlight. I haven't seen this happen often, but it has happened. E.g., dark room, shooting with an 85mm lens and filling the frame with the subject's face, meaning short camera to subject distance, meaning the on-camera flash will sometimes contribute an additional catchlight.

(3) Again for portraits with a small subject to camera distance -- when shooting someone against a shiny backdrop (metal and/or windows), you sometimes get a reflection from the on-camera flash.

None of these issues are insurmountable, but they can be annoying.

gmosc said:

But beside that, do you have a reason? That was my whole reason for
asking and you might have a problem that others, myself incuded,
hadn't thought about. That's all I was getting at.

Sometimes it's hard to tell who is a seasoned pro here or a recent
convert from point and shoots.

Guy Moscoso

William Carter said:

Whoa -- what's with the tone? The reason I have a problem with the
flash firing is that I don't want it to because I don't want it
contributing to the exposure -- at all. The fact that it doesn't
bother you doesn't mean that I have to like it.

"William,
Why are you so scared of the 1/128th level light from the built in
flash? Are you shooting at such low power levels that it really
matters? It almost seems that you are throwing out the baby with the
bath water to keep it "pure" somehow.

Am I missing something?
In my case I have the external flashes gelled to match the ambient
but I haven't gelled the camera flash. It doesn't seem to destroy the
shot.

And just to be technically correct, the external flashes ARE
triggered by infrared but the infra red emitter IS the built in
flash. They didn't add a special emitter like on the SU800.
Personally I wish it was radio waves, but I won't look a gift horse
in the mouth like you seem to be doing- or do you really have a
special application that absolutely needs no light from the camera?

Guy Moscoso"

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lovEU said:

Michael Palumbo said:

I put the diffusion dome on the SB-900 Master
just to get good coverage. It has worked very well.

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Michael, are you talking of SW-10H or something different?
--

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Eric,

I don't know the official name. It is that dome that fits over the flash to make is a pseudo bare bulb. I put it on the SB 900 Master and it covers several Remotes very well. Something the SU did not do very well.

alabaster said:

JordanS said:

This device here is what you need.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/410445-REG/Nikon_4905_SG_3IR_IR_Panel.html

Click to expand...

Jordan, this unit is for D200, D70 & D70s - do you know whether it
fits the D700?

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Yes, it fits the D700 and works fine. Also, you can tape it to a SB-800 to turn it into a psudo SU800. It gets better range for firing other CLS flashes and you also get the autofocus assistant. If you shoot into a mirror, you might see a tiny red illuminated area on the SG-3IR.

If you put the other flashes out of sight of the master, try using white paper as a signal reflector. I've also used small mirrors on Justin clamps. Those stick-on convex mirrors they make for trucks work pretty well.

Also, keep in mind that the new Pocket Wizards that should be out mid year will give you radio control of CLS, and work with the existing PWs. Can't wait.

--
Ken Elliott
Equipment in profile.

Can't take the time to read through all the replys but here is your problem. In the D700 in camera menu M does not stand for master, its for manual. You need to set your menu to TTL and them to zero ev. That will make the in camera flash contribute only a very small amount. Now set both your off camera SB-800 and SB-900 to slave and in TTL. This should make everything work.
--
Ken Eis
http://keneis.zenfolio.com

William and David314

Good pionts from both. As for the Light show, yes that can be a problem and even worse with some blinkers (one of our boys and both of our cats!)

I just these last two days ran into two problems. One is mentioned earler in the thread if I'm remember correctly. I was trying to add just a little bit of light with the flash, but ISO6400 and f1.8 was enough to cause the flash to light up the portrait. As I think back to it, I think I might have been able to actually dial down the flash in TTL rather than turn it off (which I had done.) because I think it's possible to get lower than 1/128th of flash in TTL. But I'll have to try that later.

The other problem was that there was cracker (or commonly called smoke) for the lighting on stage. The flash illuminated the smoke. That would lead me to believe that small particles of dust in the air could also get lit up by the on board flash like it does on lots of point and shoots.

Guy Moscoso

William Carter said:

Thanks. I am a professional but am admittedly new to the CLS system.
I ordinarily use Profoto strobes in the studio.

My reasons are as follows:

(1) I shoot mostly portraits and the pre-flash from the on-camera
master is distracting to the subject. (It's possible I may be doing
something wrong here -- I seem to recall reading that the lag between
the two flashes may be a result of having it set on FP flash mode?)

(2) For portraits, depending on what other lighting is going on and
my distance to the subject, the on-camera master can create an
additional catchlight. I haven't seen this happen often, but it has
happened. E.g., dark room, shooting with an 85mm lens and filling
the frame with the subject's face, meaning short camera to subject
distance, meaning the on-camera flash will sometimes contribute an
additional catchlight.

Click to expand...

KenEis said:

You need to set your menu to TTL and them to zero ev.
That will make the in camera flash contribute only a very small
amount.

Click to expand...

While accurate, if you set the mode to "--" (two dashes) then you have turned it "off". It isn't really off, if it is the master, since it has to flash in order to trigger the other flashes.

Good point about "M" not being master. I can see where that could confuse.

--
Ken Elliott
Equipment in profile.

David314 said:

the exception to the master contributing is FP sync - in that mode
the master signal fires before the shutter opens

so FP sync mode is a way of avoiding contribution from the master -
at the penalty of decreased power output

good shooting!

Click to expand...

That is VERY interesting. I have never had this problem, and it's probably bc I leave all my stuff set to "auto FP" all the time.

So, that raises this question:

If you are shooting at 1/250 or slower, where auto FP should not have to kick in, does it still prevent the master from firing, AND does it still hurt your max power output?

I'm going to have to do the catch light test now... fascinating...

--
David Hill
http://www.austinweddingphotographer.com
Austin, Texas
Likes Canon for panoramas and the 24/1.4.
Likes Nikon for wedding and everything else.