GH1 is going to be Affordable!

I could get an E520, a second lens and a small video camera for less than the cost of this camera.

--
Al Patterson

I don't do video, so paying extra for this "feature" only wastes money I could use for an extra lens, or a new camera bag. Or groceries...

But I do see why the video folks could love this camera.

--
Al Patterson

so it's not only the Canon fans who find this way to expensive.

--
Al Patterson

The nikon 18-200 is $700 so whats wrong with the 14-140 being $700?

EDirkx said:

If I recall correctly, the G1 with comparable kit is more expensive
than most entrylevel DSLR's.

Click to expand...

Looking at Amazon, the G1 is $40 more than an XSi with no lense. I'd say it's priced accordingly given that it gives comparable pictures in a much smaller package.

The G1H takes that and throws in what appears to be full fledged camcorder performance - which is worth at least another 7 to $900. As I said earlier, my parents went to Alaska and carried a super zoom and a non-hd camcorder. New, those two devices cost 1500. I would gladly to pay $1500 to get a quality camera - not a p&s - and a quality HD camcorder rolled into one device.

it looks like pany is counting on the A+B=C concept in letting people 'add up' the cost of 2 boxes and say that this C box is less than the sum of A+B.

fake logic.

the fact that a phone can play mp3s, connect to the internet, take photos, run apps/java - does NOT mean they sell using the strategy 'imagine if you added up the cost of all those devices'.

we EXPECT integration. and its not linear in that you don't just 'add up' components.

there is SO much shared inside an integrated device, its way beyond simple counting of prices for subassemblies.

this is marketing logic.

interesting that a lot of people seem to not see this.

the initial investment is the reason why its so high prices right now. but don't confuse that with some fanboy rationalization that 'look how much I SAVED by not having to buy 2 boxes instead of 1'.

somehow, I don't think pany is going to really hurt their own DEDICATED movie cams. just a hunch, though, knowing how protective pany is about their own tech and their own divisions.

--
Bryan
(pic stream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works ) ~

LizaWitz said:

I can't help you if you're on windows, as I'm on a Mac. If you're on
a Mac, here's the process for working with the video:

Click to expand...

Hi LizaWitz, what I was referring to in my post is not your work flow but what some of the numbers you were referring to mean. It sounds like your use of the Mac makes it easy to deal with video HD formats.

I mentioned reading a blog on Vimeo that a really experienced user was having a real hard time working around editing video made in a smaller subset of 1080 format. He said it was impossible (windows) but maybe the Panasonic is not using a restricted subset of the standard?? I use Windows Movie Maker and Adobe Premier Elements 4. Movie Maker is lame but free;-)

I would love to combine two gadgets together and have a hybrid camera (did you see the quality of those videos on the Pany Site? My oh My!) A small form camera (I already have a camera and lens system that I can not travel with. Too heavy. I can either take clothes and toothbrush or camera equipment in this modern world of restricted baggage weight allowances grin ) with one extra wide angle lens that is also a camcorder wow (well ok I'll have to slip into my pocket my lx3 - can't leave home without it I just want to know that using Windows I'll be able to edit video without spending all my free time on it or being driven crazy.

So I guess I am starting to think that while expensive in real dollar terms it is affordable in meeting my needs of what I want to accomplish. I will still wait for the dust to settle. Whatever opinion people have expressed here time will tell and we will see if Pany is going to hatch an egg or have started a whole new chapter in digital photography merging with video. Limited consumer subset or massive new interest in the possibilities. I can hardly wait to find out! Curt on Cape Cod

Linuxworks I hear what you are saying but I remember reading a DPReview by Phil regarding the Sony R1 where he was going to downgrade the recommendation due to the limitations in quality etc but then said he had to give it his highest recommendation because in one form factor it replaced so many other individual parts at much less cost and while not at the highest quality of all those parts but still amazing for one piece of kit. It might be comparable to what we are going to see with the GH1? Maybe, time will tell. Curt on Cape Cod

And the video camera allows distortion-free 114° capture? Or at least some sort of selective focus?

Kind regards,
Martin

--
http://www.datzinger.net

Until the Samsung NX, Oly m43? are actually released Panasonic is the only company offering a true fully digital interchangeable lens hybrid.

A Dslr is also a hybrid, but of a different kind: remnant of an analog era, with digital sensor put into it. An aftertought.
This is the nextgen camera.
That's why it is without competition.
That's why I expected this price (or anything they want for it).
They know they have something special.
These days no company would dare

to invest in such risky innovation without being convinced it's going to be a hit.

It surprises me they take the 1080p jump knowing they also have a succesfull camcorder line with similar prices (TM300 etc.).

I'm going to be travelling the world on a bicycle in a couple of months. I've been agonising over what equipment to take as I have the following requirements:

Decent quality pictures (not compact/superzoom)

Decent quality 720p60 or 1080p24/25 video (I will have a several video projects on the go - haven't decided on a resolution yet)
Decent quality sound.

A DSLR with video would have been ideal, but the 5D2 is just too expensive. The D90 has unforgivably bad sound and no microphone input. This means syncing up a field recorder in post, which I would very much like to avoid.

So, I toyed with the idea of a Pentax K200D or similar and a separate camcorder - on the assumption that the GH1 would be a disappointment.

Thankfully, the GH1 is everything I was hoping for. The microphone input never seemed to be discussed pre-PMA, so I was thankful to discover it has one. The only thing I'm not sure about is if the AV output can be used to monitor sound? Anyone heard about this yet?

linuxworks said:

it looks like pany is counting on the A+B=C concept in letting people
'add up' the cost of 2 boxes and say that this C box is less than the
sum of A+B.

fake logic.

Click to expand...

OK, let's examine the logic of A+B=C

A+B - A DSLR and a separate camcorder. Two battery types, two chargers, two devices to carry.

C - An EVIL camera (I just like saying that) with still quality similar to A and video quality and creative control almost certainly better than B. Probably over a kilogram less weight to lug around.

Uhhh I'll take C.

It's only fake logic if someone only wants a camera and doesn't need video. For them, logically, they would buy a G1 or something else.

As for your previous rants about AVCHD - yes, AVCHD was originally designed as a delivery format and can be difficult to edit. Some editors already have inbuilt proxy editing that gets around processing bottlenecks without transcoding. That said, the quality loss from using an intermediary codec is negligible.

This was shot on a 5D2 in AVCHD and produced using an intermediary codec:
http://vimeo.com/3387172

(create a vimeo account if you don't have one, and download the 720p quicktime version)

Try getting anything close to that kind of output from a $1000 camcorder.

Yes this is using a full frame sensor and some nice lenses, but the GH1 is much closer to full frame than a camcorder sensor.

linuxworks said:

we EXPECT integration. and its not linear in that you don't just 'add up'
components.

Click to expand...

I wasn't EXPECTING integration, but I'm sure glad it finally arrived.

John Carson said:

Before talking about relative prices, you need to price DSLRs with a
superzoom lens, not with their usual kit lens. That pushes up the
price considerably.

Click to expand...

A Canon 1000D+18-200IS is $1000, and for $700 you can get a two lens kit that goes from 29-400mm equiv. A Nikon D40 or Oly E-420 is even cheaper.

John Carson said:

Further, indications are that the GH1 is a serious video camera,
whereas the video on DSLRs is little more than a gimmick. The GH1 has
a combination of other features (e.g., articulating LCD and 100%
coverage in the viewfinder) that you won't find in any DSLR.

Click to expand...

How is the 5D MK2's video mode a gimmick compared to the GH1? Yes, the GH1 has AF, and manual control, but the 5D2 has a 36x24 sensor and hundreds of different compatible lenses. Manual control and/or AF will surely be in the next implementation. I call this a draw

Several DSLRs have 100% viewfinder coverage and several also have articulating screens, not that most DSLR users want an articulating screen.

John Carson said:

--
john carson

Click to expand...

--
-Scott
http://www.flickr.com/photos/redteg94/

LizaWitz said:

Amazing that there is so much excitement about the Canon 5D which is
much less capable in a number of ways yet costs 3 times the price.

Click to expand...

?????

In what ways is it less capable? 21MP 36x24mm sensor, high ISO performance that the Pany can only dream of attaining, compatible with 200+ lenses (not 3), has an optical VF, big solid metal body, etc.

--
-Scott
http://www.flickr.com/photos/redteg94/

Less capable video wise, never mind what the cameras are designed for originally.

Redteg94 said:

LizaWitz said:

Amazing that there is so much excitement about the Canon 5D which is
much less capable in a number of ways yet costs 3 times the price.

Click to expand...

?????

In what ways is it less capable? 21MP 36x24mm sensor, high ISO
performance that the Pany can only dream of attaining, compatible
with 200+ lenses (not 3), has an optical VF, big solid metal body,
etc.

--
-Scott
http://www.flickr.com/photos/redteg94/

Click to expand...

--
Hubert

My cameras TZ3, recently broken Konica Auto S2, recently bought K1000



http://www.flickr.com/photos/peppermonkey/

..

jordanofoz said:

This was shot on a 5D2 in AVCHD and produced using an intermediary
codec:
http://vimeo.com/3387172
(create a vimeo account if you don't have one, and download the 720p
quicktime version)

Click to expand...

Hi, I just watched your tailspin movie. I think it really is gorgeous, wonderful! I'd really be glad to read about how you judge the GH1 video capabilies, in particular since you do professional video creation and editing.

Regards,

kikl

Kikl said:

Kikl said:

This was shot on a 5D2 in AVCHD and produced using an intermediary
codec:
http://vimeo.com/3387172
(create a vimeo account if you don't have one, and download the 720p
quicktime version)

Click to expand...

Hi, I just watched your tailspin movie. I think it really is
gorgeous, wonderful! I'd really be glad to read about how you judge
the GH1 video capabilies, in particular since you do professional
video creation and editing.

Click to expand...

It is indeed lovely, but it isn't mine. I just wanted to point out the kind of quality that we can expect from video on large sensors - and that AVCHD can be edited with intermediary codecs and still look stunning.

I have been waiting for a camera like this for YEARS!!!

I've been saying a Digital Image Capture Device like this was the logical progression of the technology (way back in 2005 - 2007).

I was very tempted by the first of these Digital Hybrid offerings (Nikon D90, Canon 5D Mark II) but this one looks like the best one yet.

I hope the reviews are positive because I REALLY want to buy one!

--
Canon T70, AE1, Rebel2000 G1, G2, G5, Pro1, SD500

curtmill22 said:

Hi LizaWitz, what I was referring to in my post is not your work flow
but what some of the numbers you were referring to mean.

Click to expand...

Hi there-

I don't understand what you're not clear on with all those numbers, but I can try and answer any questions.

It sounds like you may need to get some software to deal with the video from this camera.

The funky encoding format (24p in 60i) is the same as the HV20 from Canon, and the other cameras in that line, and probably several other cameras. The HV20 is very popular with a subset of people who want to shoot 24p, and they are able to deal with the video-- and have been for several years (as that model is old at this point.)

So, I can say with some confidence that there's a solution out on windows, but it might mean you have to buy a new editor.

Ah, it turns out my favorite tool for this kind of work is also available for windows, and its free.

Go here: http://www.squared5.com/

Download MPEG Streamclip

This is a great tool for working with video-- its not an editor, but its good for moving from one format to another. Assuming the windows version is like the mac version there will be tools in it for pulling 24p video out of 60i stream, and for converting AVCHD to regular MPEG4 files.

Until the camera's out I can't give specific instructions or advcie.... but you can grab Streamclip now and see if you can work with sample video (once there's some sample video out there).

Dayd3 said:

LizaWitz said:

Everyone wins, why all the complaining?

Click to expand...

Because many of us here don't value new m4/3 system (camera + lenses)
by video capabilities but by photo capabilities.

Click to expand...

Right, so you should be talking about the G1, not the GH1, since you don't care about video. That camera's been out for many months. You either don't like it or you do, but there's no point in telling us that the GH1 sucks.

DjarumBlack said:

I have been waiting for 4 years to replace my FZ3 because I wanted
the right camera, and the G1 is the right camera without the right
lens(at least for me at the moment)

Click to expand...

All well and good but has nothing to do with the GH1. The 14-140 lens was obviously made for HD video, and thus is not the solution you're looking for.