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Let's Talk About Chimping....

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jim Radcliffe
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MarkD said:
Look at the motorcycle picture at the bottom of this page:

http://www.scottkelby.com/blog/2009/archives/3510

If I was the photographer, I would be looking at the LCD right after
I shot this unless the AD grabbed the camera out of my hand.
Click to expand...
Not only did I not chimp, I didn't see this image until I uploaded the card a few days later, same kind of luck of the draw in backlit situation..



--

'Digital is like shaved legs on a man - very smooth and clean but there is something
acutely disconcerting about it.'
 
Jim Radcliffe said:
There will always be the few who reject progress and believe that
their way is the only way.
Click to expand...
That's a narrow minded statement, don't you think? There are times when I need the LCD, but most of the time, I simply don't. And I actually helped Kodak and Nikon develop digital in the mid 90's, I happen to welcome progress.

But what I have found at the ripe old age of 41 is that you don't need progress, you need vision and drive. I see a lot of crutches being employed in this age....and I see a lot more mediocre work posted all over the internet. Most of it lacking the soul of imagery done by a person who not only got to know is his light, tools and film over decades of use, but his inner genius when coupled with those selections.

But this is the way it is now and if it is good for the masses, it is good for everyone, right....?

I think you all know the answer to that one...:-)

--

'Digital is like shaved legs on a man - very smooth and clean but there is something
acutely disconcerting about it.'
 
Dan Nikon said:
Not only did I not chimp, I didn't see this image until I uploaded
the card a few days later, same kind of luck of the draw in backlit
situation..
Click to expand...
So what is your point Dan? That you are THAT good or that you are lucky?

If you don't chimp that's cool, more power to you.. but I fail to see your point. Most people shooting action events do not chimp.. they don't have the time. I've done enough racing, football, surfing and concert work to know that.

Most photographers eventually learn to read the light. I do it but I also check myself against reality every now and then.. with a meter and with a preview shot.

Do you have insurance? You know most of the time we don't need insurance but we pay the premiums just in case... using that LCD is a bit of an insurance policy because we may only have one shot.. and a meter or a histogram does not always translate to exactly what we want. Sometimes you just have to see it on the LCD.

So who is the wiser, the guy who thinks he's healthy or the guy who actually gets a checkup every now and then and knows he's healthy?

--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.boxedlight.com
http://www.oceona.com

The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear.... and remember, a camera is a tool, not a religion.
 
Dan Nikon said:
Jim Radcliffe said:
There will always be the few who reject progress and believe that
their way is the only way.
Click to expand...
That's a narrow minded statement, don't you think?
Click to expand...
No, I don't think it narrow minded at all... I think it's the truth. You meet people of that mindset in every profession.
Dan Nikon said:
There are times
when I need the LCD, but most of the time, I simply don't. And I
actually helped Kodak and Nikon develop digital in the mid 90's, I
happen to welcome progress.
Click to expand...
Glad to hear it.
Dan Nikon said:
But what I have found at the ripe old age of 41 is that you don't
need progress, you need vision and drive. I see a lot of crutches
being employed in this age....and I see a lot more mediocre work
posted all over the internet.
Click to expand...
You see it because everyone can self publish... it's no shock that people want to express themselves.. whether they be good at it or not. It's not just in photography, it's everywhere... music, painting, poetry.. the Internet has leveled the playing field. You've got to expect this.

And by the way, I'm your senior by 20 years Dan, I was using a camera before you were born. I've gone through a lot of cameras and seen the technology advance over the years and I have welcomed every new advance and the one I have most appreciated is being able to review a shot before I leave a location.
Dan Nikon said:
Most of it lacking the soul of imagery
done by a person who not only got to know is his light, tools and
film over decades of use, but his inner genius when coupled with
those selections.
Click to expand...
There is a lot of good work out there and a lot of bad work as well.. and it has always been that way. This is nothing new.. we just get to see more of it thanks to the Internet.

--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.boxedlight.com
http://www.oceona.com

The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear.... and remember, a camera is a tool, not a religion.
 
--The only reason people didn't chimp in the days of film is because they couldn't. Do the anti-chimpers pp their images?
 
Jim Radcliffe said:
So what is your point Dan? That you are THAT good or that you are
lucky?
Click to expand...
LOL!! My point is that I am stirring the pot with my experience and the opinions I have based on that experience.

Come on man, lets face it, if you have different opinions that are going to stir the pot on dpreview, you are going to get flamed for not following the masses.

Sure, it would be fairly easy for me to chime in and say, yeah, that LCD sure is killer for dialing in light ratios or making sure my Pocket Wizard fired some 200 feet away, but what good does that do? You already know this stuff. What do you learn from a bunch of "Bravo-Bravo", "Two thumbs UP to that Nice Capture brah" kind of cr@p all the time? Nothing in my book...

You learn nothing new from continually patting each other on the back and grandstanding about what you already know.....and that happens a LOT on this forum.

Ooh...my 900th post, I think I am outta here for a few years, I have a bunch of Kodachrome to shoot in only a year or so:

http://www.Kodachromeproject.com

Come on Marke, you are loaded with the chrome, your t-shirt is in the mail, let's get busy living, not busy dying my friend...
--

'Digital is like shaved legs on a man - very smooth and clean but there is something
acutely disconcerting about it.'
 
I'm beginning to wonder what purpose this thread is serving. I don't think it's going to change anyone's mind about chimping. Either people will chimp or they won't. There will be people who use it effectively and there will be people who don't. The people who use it effectively will probably use it less and less as they gain more experience with judging exposure until it become second nature.
Dan Nikon said:
I find only one thing more liberating than not being distracted by
the LCD screen when I shoot Kodachrome. One thing is more powerful
than making the image in full confidence of ability and moving on in
life...
Click to expand...
Chimping while you're in the creative process is like singing with your ears plugged.

--
  • markE
http://www.pbase.com/marke

'Good street/wildlife photography is a controlled accident,
a vision of preparation and surrender materialized.'

 
Dan Nikon said:
LOL!! My point is that I am stirring the pot with my experience and
the opinions I have based on that experience.

Come on man, lets face it, if you have different opinions that are
going to stir the pot on dpreview, you are going to get flamed for
not following the masses.
Click to expand...
What's with this masses thing you keep bringing up? I'll tell you the truth Dan, your post makes no sense at all. Stirring the pot... that was the goal. Interesting.
Dan Nikon said:
You learn nothing new from continually patting each other on the back
and grandstanding about what you already know.....and that happens a
LOT on this forum.
Click to expand...
I'm trying to figure out what I have learned from your post.. you haven't attaboyd anyone, you haven't patted anyone on the back. I guess all I have learned is that you can read light, don't need a meter and never need to chimp... that's helpful.

--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.boxedlight.com
http://www.oceona.com

The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear.... and remember, a camera is a tool, not a religion.
 
Dan Nikon said:
Jim Radcliffe said:
So what is your point Dan? That you are THAT good or that you are
lucky?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
After reading a number of your other posts in Canon, Nikon, Open Talk, etc.. I don't need an answer.. I know who and what you are. No need to respond further on any aspect of this thread. Enjoy the chrome.
--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.boxedlight.com
http://www.oceona.com

The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear.... and remember, a camera is a tool, not a religion.
 
markE said:
I'm beginning to wonder what purpose this thread is serving. I don't
think it's going to change anyone's mind about chimping. Either
people will chimp or they won't. There will be people who use it
effectively and there will be people who don't. The people who use it
effectively will probably use it less and less as they gain more
experience with judging exposure until it become second nature.
Click to expand...
Thanks for summing up why chimping is not a bad thing..
--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.boxedlight.com
http://www.oceona.com

The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear.... and remember, a camera is a tool, not a religion.
 
What a wonderful thread, Jim!

I always thought that looking at the screen to see how the shot turned out was just a feature of digital photography - something the technology enabled you to do if you wanted to. It had never occurred to me that it was invested with such a weight of moral significance. How hilarious!

Each camp should have a motto. Here are my suggestions:

You'd be a chump not to chimp.

Chimping's not for champs.
 
Indeed the wonderful thing about digital photography, is that the feedback loop is instantaneous.

In the film days, only pros could afford to shoot dozens of rolls of film (if not hundreds!), and only pros had enough time that they'd have written down all settings used for a given shot, so that they'd remember how to change things for a better result, next time.

But now, the feedback loop is instantaneous. Be it on white balance (sure, it's something that didn't exist in the film days), on aperture / shutter, DOF, over/under-exposure.

There are also some situations where even the pros would have a very low keeper rate but where digital allows a much higher rate. Be it panning, be it night shots, star shots, fireworks, you name it.

Digital photography certainly has made it a much quicker learning curve, for anyone willing to learn. I'd even argue that even those not that curious, almost unconsciously improve much faster than would have ever been possible in the film days.

And also, I find it much more satisfactory to witness an amateur shotting, reviewing, adjusting settings, trying again, than to witness a pro taking several hundreds (or thousands) of shots on their camera linked to a laptop, counting on some automated sorting software to select the best shots later on.
 
euston said:
What a wonderful thread, Jim!

I always thought that looking at the screen to see how the shot
turned out was just a feature of digital photography - something the
technology enabled you to do if you wanted to. It had never occurred
to me that it was invested with such a weight of moral significance.
How hilarious!

Each camp should have a motto. Here are my suggestions:

You'd be a chump not to chimp.

Chimping's not for champs.
Click to expand...
Euston, it's not really a matter of whether you choose to chimp or not.. the point of the thread was that there is nothing wrong with chimping and that chimping is a valuable tool for learning the relationship between ISO, aperture and shutter speed... as well as helping with framing and composition.

Chimping is of the greatest value to those new to photography.. it helps them learn at a faster pace. The more they learn, the less they chimp. I still find it valuable under difficult lighting situations where the histogram doesn't tell the full story.

Chimping should not be devisive and certainly no one should be denegrated because they choose to chimp.
--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.boxedlight.com
http://www.oceona.com

The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear.... and remember, a camera is a tool, not a religion.
 
antoineb said:
Indeed the wonderful thing about digital photography, is that the
feedback loop is instantaneous.

Digital photography certainly has made it a much quicker learning
curve, for anyone willing to learn. I'd even argue that even those
not that curious, almost unconsciously improve much faster than would
have ever been possible in the film days.
Click to expand...
Yep.. you understand the value and why no one should be "knocked" because they choose to chimp.

--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.boxedlight.com
http://www.oceona.com

The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear.... and remember, a camera is a tool, not a religion.
 
they even called it chimping!

Nothing wrong with it and it sure beats getting 36 exposures developed and printed and tossing all but 5-10 images.

How could chimping be negative!

--
Greg Gebhardt in
Jacksonville, Florida
 
"This invention, I admit, does its job
if I stoop to the way of the mob.
You behave like the chimps
to catch just one glimpse!
I prefer to remain a snob."
 
probably because I've never done it. I guess I always figured it would double the amount of time capturing any given image & life's too short. ;)
jp

--
I like making pictures.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/inframan
 
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