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How to balance the sky on a cloudy day?

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lynxlea

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This is a typical bad photo taken on a cloudy day. The sky was totally blown out.
May I ask, will a CPL help to darken the cloudy sky?

I knew studio flash + ND filter will do the job, but if just a casual hang out with girl friend, carrying a studio flash is often too heavy.



--
2008 Lynx Award;)

Best Lens: ZA 135 1.8 (lens for dimlight portrait, shutter speed can be very low to brighten background with Sony A900)

Best Compact: Nikon S10 (Super Body Design, 10xZoom, Tilt LCD, Fixed f3.5 Lens, very Easy to carry)

hoping: Canon 135 f1.8/1.6 IS USM + 802.11 Radio Tiggered 600EX Flash + Nikon S10 Successor
http://leesiaojun.blogspot.com/
 
First of all, I don't think a blown-out sky is necessarily bad. In this specific photo for instance, I like this surreal, dreamy effect it offers.

But anyway...Facing the problem.
  • If a flash cannot be used
  • If the subject cannot be positioned in a way that the difference in sky EV and subject EV is within the camera's dynamic range
  • If you can't use a split ND filter
then the only option (in digital) is to exposure for the sky and then lift the shadows in PP. There's a tremendous amount of info in the shadows that can be retrieved. Of course there will be a degradation in quality (proportional to the difference in EV), but I still think it's the only way, SHOULD the above conditions cannot be met.

Here's a quick example (exposed for the sky, lifted the shadows. Before PP, the foreground was almost totally dark):

 
so you think cpl will not help
--
2008 Lynx Award;)

Best Lens: ZA 135 1.8 (lens for dimlight portrait, shutter speed can be very low to brighten background with Sony A900)

Best Compact: Nikon S10 (Super Body Design, 10xZoom, Tilt LCD, Fixed f3.5 Lens, very Easy to carry)

hoping: Canon 135 f1.8/1.6 IS USM + 802.11 Radio Tiggered 600EX Flash + Nikon S10 Successor
http://leesiaojun.blogspot.com/
 
lynxlea said:
so you think cpl will not help
Click to expand...
A polariser will not help with cloudy skies. It can darken blue skies.

The alternative is a graduated Neutral Density (ND) filter. This probably works best when the horizon line is roughly straight, though I've seen some good results where there are features such as hills or trees too.

The ND filter used in these way will darken the sky, then gradually fades to transparent so it does not affect the foreground. It has the advantage of avoiding over-exposed highlights which are unrecoverable,

But in the case of a person standing with such a sky as the background, unfortunately the person's face and upper body will be darkened too, which will probably be unacceptable.

In that case, the use of fill-flash to lighten the subject is a better approach. The flash will have no effect whatsoever on the brightness of the background and sky, so is appropriate for this purpose.
Regards,
Peter
 
lynxlea said:
I knew studio flash + ND filter will do the job, but if just a casual
hang out with girl friend, carrying a studio flash is often too heavy.
Click to expand...
What about the built-in flash of the camera? That is always there, no extra weight to carry. It should do the job, if adjusted as a fill rather than main light.

Regards,
Peter
 
cannot be very big, otherwise my girl friend will complain

--
2008 Lynx Award;)

Best Lens: ZA 135 1.8 (lens for dimlight portrait, shutter speed can be very low to brighten background with Sony A900)

Best Compact: Nikon S10 (Super Body Design, 10xZoom, Tilt LCD, Fixed f3.5 Lens, very Easy to carry)

hoping: Canon 135 f1.8/1.6 IS USM + 802.11 Radio Tiggered 600EX Flash + Nikon S10 Successor
http://leesiaojun.blogspot.com/
 
This kind of shot is very, very easy to accomplish. Either on a cloudy day or a sunny day.

First of all, imagine two planes of exposure- The background and the foreground.

But First….You need to put your camera in manual mode!!!

Point your camera toward the background...the sky even and meter the background exposure.

Background Exposure (Shutter speed, Aperture, ISO): Start out with an ISO of 100, make your aperture say f/11, and then adjust a shutter speed so that the exposure meter is 1/3 stop to the left of the center (it's that little needle that bounces left or right in the view finder).

This slight underexposes the background and helps to saturate the colors.

Foreground Exposure (Your Speedlight Flash, Flash Exposure Compensation): Make sure that the High Speed Sync setting on your flash in "ON". See the article below with regards to high speed sync, always leave it "ON" when you are outside! Doing so allows the cameras shutter speed and flash to sync together at shutter speeds higher that the cameras sync speed of 1/200 or 1/250 for instance.

I suspect that in your photo the shutter speed could not exceed 1/200 or 1/250 (too sloooooow) which blew out your sky!

Anyway, make sure that the high speed sync is "ON", set your flash to TTL mode, FEC at 0 for starters, and take a shot.

Increase or decrease the FEC to give you the correct exposure for the woman in the foreground.

Bottom line: camera in manual mode, expose for the background, set the high speed sync setting to "ON" and use your flash to exposure for the foreground.

It really is that easy!!!

High Speed Sync for flash at any shutter speed-
http://www.rpphoto.com/howto/view.asp?articleID=1026

Here are my example's-





Good Luck!

r/Mike
--
B.R.A.S.S. (Breathe, Relax, Aim, Sight, Squeeze)

 
sky always 3 or 4 stops more then my object, so will always -2EV on camera be a good idea?

--
2008 Lynx Award;)

Best Lens: ZA 135 1.8 (lens for dimlight portrait, shutter speed can be very low to brighten background with Sony A900)

Best Compact: Nikon S10 (Super Body Design, 10xZoom, Tilt LCD, Fixed f3.5 Lens, very Easy to carry)

hoping: Canon 135 f1.8/1.6 IS USM + 802.11 Radio Tiggered 600EX Flash + Nikon S10 Successor
http://leesiaojun.blogspot.com/
 
Another way to do it if you don't have a flash is to use a gold reflector on the shadow side. That will warm up the shot on a cloudy day and increase the light on the subject - allowing you to close down the aperture to darken the sky. If you still need to more then underexpose the image further by another stop or stop and a half and recover the shadow detail in post processing.

The opposite holds true with dark backgrounds; put a translucent panel between the light source and the subject and you'll be able to open up for the subject automatically making the BG lighter.

Regards,
Mike

--

Polaroid Swinger; Kodak Instamatic 126 Ricoh 500G; Canon FTb; Nikon F2AS; Nikon F3HP; Hasselblad 501CM; Pentax 67II, Nikon 990; Nikon D1x; Nikon D300; PhaseOne P65+ (in my dreams ;-)
 
lynxlea said:
This is a typical bad photo taken on a cloudy day. The sky was
totally blown out.
May I ask, will a CPL help to darken the cloudy sky?

I knew studio flash + ND filter will do the job, but if just a casual
hang out with girl friend, carrying a studio flash is often too heavy.
Click to expand...
one other suggestion - photoshop can also cure those washed out skies !

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/w-photos/
 
bw100 said:
one other suggestion - photoshop can also cure those washed out skies !
Click to expand...
No it can't. Once the highlights are clipped in digital, they're gone. The only PP "solution" would be to add a background from another photo, but that's a whole other issue
 
bw100 said:
Ancient_Mariner said:
bw100 said:
one other suggestion - photoshop can also cure those washed out skies !
Click to expand...
No it can't. Once the highlights are clipped in digital, they're
gone. The only PP "solution" would be to add a background from
another photo, but that's a whole other issue
Click to expand...
I use Phototools plug-in filters with a graduated filter - works great
Click to expand...
That will not fix any clipped highlights, as ancient said, once it's blown it is gone. The OP was having issues with a blown out sky, no Photoshop tool can solve that other than replacing the background, you can use a graduated filter in PS later if you so wish but providing the shot is not ruined whilst taking it in the first place. This is why I always use the histogram whilst I am shooting.

--
http://www.ianfisher.info

 
Fishmeister said:
bw100 said:
Ancient_Mariner said:
bw100 said:
one other suggestion - photoshop can also cure those washed out skies !
Click to expand...
No it can't. Once the highlights are clipped in digital, they're
gone. The only PP "solution" would be to add a background from
another photo, but that's a whole other issue
Click to expand...
I use Phototools plug-in filters with a graduated filter - works great
Click to expand...
That will not fix any clipped highlights, as ancient said, once it's
blown it is gone. The OP was having issues with a blown out sky, no
Photoshop tool can solve that other than replacing the background,
you can use a graduated filter in PS later if you so wish but
providing the shot is not ruined whilst taking it in the first place.
This is why I always use the histogram whilst I am shooting.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree parts of the original sky are gone, (and not to be resurrected with PS) I'm only saying that type of problem can be fixed with a photoshop plug-in graduated blue filter or taking more time and replacing the sky with a mask like "Fluid mask" which also works great

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/w-photos/
 
bw100 said:
bw100 said:
That will not fix any clipped highlights, as ancient said, once it's
blown it is gone. The OP was having issues with a blown out sky, no
Photoshop tool can solve that other than replacing the background,
you can use a graduated filter in PS later if you so wish but
providing the shot is not ruined whilst taking it in the first place.
This is why I always use the histogram whilst I am shooting.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree parts of the original sky are gone, (and not to be
resurrected with PS) I'm only saying that type of problem can be
fixed with a photoshop plug-in graduated blue filter or taking more
time and replacing the sky with a mask like "Fluid mask" which also
works great
Click to expand...
Or you could set your camera up properly, get the shot right the first time and not have to try and possibly save it in PS later, this is usually the best way and what the OP was trying to achieve.

--
http://www.ianfisher.info

 
Ancient_Mariner said:
First of all, I don't think a blown-out sky is necessarily bad. In
this specific photo for instance, I like this surreal, dreamy effect
it offers.

But anyway...Facing the problem.
  • If a flash cannot be used
  • If the subject cannot be positioned in a way that the difference in
sky EV and subject EV is within the camera's dynamic range
  • If you can't use a split ND filter
then the only option (in digital) is to exposure for the sky and then
lift the shadows in PP. There's a tremendous amount of info in the
shadows that can be retrieved. Of course there will be a degradation
in quality (proportional to the difference in EV), but I still think
it's the only way, SHOULD the above conditions cannot be met.

Here's a quick example (exposed for the sky, lifted the shadows.
Before PP, the foreground was almost totally dark):

Click to expand...
--
I like that picture.
 
jrcartasgmailcom said:
I like that picture.
Click to expand...
Thanks :)

I'd like to say something more about OE and skies...

I think the best way to handle situations like this is to use the zone system. It's NOT the fastest way, but in its stripped-down version it's as simple as this (for details and explanations, google "zone system"):
  • Manual mode, spot metering.
  • Take a reading from the brightest part of the scene that you want to still preserve (i.e. not to overexpose)
  • Whatever the meter shows you (That is, whatever it shows so that it's balanced in the middle), calculate +2 stops (even +3 could still be OK, but to be sure, I'd go for +2). E.g, if the meter suggests f/8 and 1/500, you can go to f/4 and 1/500 or f/8 and 1/125.
  • Reframe and take the shot
This is the way to get the best possible exposure (in the sense that you expose so that you preserve the highlights with the highest possible exposure - so that you have as much detail captured in the shadows, as well)
 
It's situations like this where a high definition EVF would be useful. One could simply look through the viewfinder while adjusting exposure compensation until is looked right.
--
Tom

Look at the picture, not the pixels

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/
 
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