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GH1 is going to be Affordable!

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shimage said:
$700 is the MSRP of the Nikkor. Street price varies—sometimes,
over $700—but the MSRP has always been $700.
Click to expand...
Amazon gives $900 as the list price:

http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-18-200mm-3-5-5-6-ED-IF-Zoom-Nikkor/dp/B000BY52NU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=photo&qid=1236213960&sr=1-1
shimage said:
Aside from the
fact that I thought it should be cheaper and easier to
design/manufacture lenses without the mirror in the way, build
quality does not look up to par for a $900 lens. Of course, I have no
real reason for saying that, having only seen pictures of the lens.
Click to expand...
This lens is optimised for video (super-fast contrast detect focussing, silent motor etc.). I think you should expect to pay something for that.

--
john carson
 
I have a 5D II, but sometimes I just want to travel light, and no P&S has ever interested me. I've tried a few, and they all stink. The GH1 looks killer.
Sign me up...
--
-------------------------------------------------
'Hit Refresh if pix do not appear. Flaky ISP at work.'

 
LizaWitz said:
linuxworks said:
in my experience, the
only way to edit that is to expand it (like going mp3 to wav) then
edit, then recompress again.
Click to expand...
I edit MP4 all the time, directly.
Click to expand...
what do you use? I'd like to see for myself that its truly an 'in place' editor.

quite often a UI will make it seem like its not doing a conversion. you need to know if the engine is really doing in-place edits (and fixups at beginning and ending of i-frames) or if its simply up/down converting.

--
Bryan
(pic stream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works ) ~
 
I can't help you if you're on windows, as I'm on a Mac. If you're on a Mac, here's the process for working with the video:

1. Take the card out of the camera, attach it to the mac (usually using a USB adapter)
2. Open iMovie
3. iMovie says "Camera detected, import video?" and you say yes.
4. iMovie imports the video and stores it on your hard drive.
5. You edit the footage in imovie.

That's the easiest, most straightforward method. My workflow will be like this:

2. Open MPEG Streamclip
3. Select "Extract Video from MTS file"
4. Save video as MPEg4
5. Edit in iMovie.

I want to do the 3:2 pulldown and keep the video in H.264 format. The first method where iMovie imports it, it decompresses the video into a larger but easier to workwith format. Either method works.

I imagine the steps are similar if you're on a PC, only you would use different software.
curtmill22 said:
LizaWitz said:
RRJackson said:
Actually, it's kind of a mixed bag, IMO. You can only use the motion
jpeg capture at 720p.
Click to expand...
You can capture 720/60p using AVCHD, or 720/30p using MJPEG.
curtmill22 said:
The 1080p24 setting is in reference to internal
processing, but the camera has to store it in AVCHD at 1080i, so it's
interlaced capture. Now, I can't stand interlacing artifacts, so to
me this is a 720p60 camera.
Click to expand...
You're mistaken. The 1080/24p is really 1080/24p. Its just stored
in a 60i stream, which means you do a lossless pulldown before
editing. You get real 1080/24p, with NO interlace artifacts. Its
stored in the 60i stream to give you live HDMI out while capturing
(without having to put two codecs in there doubling the workload of
encoding to both formats.) It does this by splitting the
progressive frames into fields and then duping one of them to fit the
60i timing-- but the images are captured all at once, not interlaced,
and so when they are recomposited, you have no artifacts.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Amazing that there is so much excitement about the Canon 5D which is much less capable in a number of ways yet costs 3 times the price.
linuxworks said:
DjarumBlack said:
1200-1400? Thats steep. That is what I think killed some of pannys
other dslr offerings.
Click to expand...
yup. VERY steep.

its not about adding up the cost of the items, its STILL
sticker-shock in a down economy.

pany will sell more at firesale prices at the model's END than all
the other months combined (my guess). just like l1, it gained its
real following after the EOL firesale pricing.

pany always over-prices its higher end toys. those that have spare
cash on hand and the desire to be an early adopter will jump in but I
suspect at the 'over $1k level' this will not fly off the shelves...

yes, people want video and stills with 1 cam but I don't agree they
are willing to foot THIS kind of pricetag to get it.

--
Bryan
(pic stream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works ) ~
Click to expand...
 
Mikedigi said:
But for people who just want a stills camera, will the G1 be
upgraded, or a G1 launched with no video at all, at correspondingly
lower prices?
Click to expand...
The G1 is out on the market now, and has been for many months. Its got good pricing, about $650 with the kit lens. Were you not aware of this?

There's no upgrading that the G1 needs. The difference between the two is video.
Mikedigi said:
I wonder what percentage of potential m4/3 buyers want to pay a lot
more to get high quality video, or any video at all? On my FZ8, I
have never even switched the video on.
Click to expand...
It doesn't matter the percentage- you act as if there can only be one camera. Those who don't value video, like yourself, can get the G1. Its essentially the same camera- only you don't have to pay for that feature that you don't value.

Everyone wins, why all the complaining?
 
LizaWitz said:
Amazing that there is so much excitement about the Canon 5D which is
much less capable in a number of ways yet costs 3 times the price.
Click to expand...
canon people go nuts over canons. what does that have to do with the price of butter in norway?

;)

I can see you are totally sold on this model, but you're coming of as a brand defender. do you work for pany or have an agenda??

--
Bryan
(pic stream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works ) ~
 
LizaWitz said:
Everyone wins, why all the complaining?
Click to expand...
Because many of us here don't value new m4/3 system (camera + lenses) by video capabilities but by photo capabilities. If for example Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc. offer theiir systems (camera + lenses) by 1/2 price and at same time photo quality are same or even better than it's natural that people are complaining. This is not video forum and you can't expect that people here value new cameras by comparing them to camcorders.

I don't know what's your photographing experience cause you always speak about video. Altough some things are simmilar with photo and video still those two are two different worlds.
 
Dayd3 said:
LizaWitz said:
Dayd3 said:
I don't understand those who say - "buy G1 if you don't need video".
It's not problem with camera bodies prices but with new lenses
prices. Both new lenses are by far too expensive for most of us who
just needs good and smaller photocamera and not videocamera.
Click to expand...
Then buy a Leica M lens, they are rangefinder sized and great
quality. Oh wait, they're expensive too? Hmmm... I wonder why?
Click to expand...
IMO Panny is comparable to Oly and Zuiko and not to Leica. That's why
I don't expect Leica prices here.
Dayd3 said:
If you want a cheap lens the canon FD series are high quality and
inexpensive since they are "obsolete". You can buy them for this
camera with an adapter. They're just not small and light.
Click to expand...
Good, inexpensive and small lenses are main factors which can
attract me to m4/3 standard, not small camera with extraordinary
costly small lenses and ability to manualy focus dSLR lenses. For big
dSLR lenses I don't need small camera body. If lens weights 1kg or
even more what's the advantage of small and light camera body?
Click to expand...
Exactly my point, and probably articulated better.

I have no complaints over the price of the camera. It just appears to me that they are leaving the G1 behind when it comes to a wide angle to zoom lens. If panny decides to make a lens specifically for the G1 that doesnt have all the focusing stuff for the video, that would, IMHO, make it right.

I took a look at some of the oly lenses at b and h to see if that would be an alternative for me with the G1. Even the price on those, albiet they are great lenses, is more than I think folks, or myself, are willing to pay movin from a point and shoot or ultra zoom to an slr like camera. Considering Sigma makes some good lenses for the aps-c format at half the price, and they have more glass!

Dj
 
LizaWitz said:
Mikedigi said:
But for people who just want a stills camera, will the G1 be
upgraded, or a G1 launched with no video at all, at correspondingly
lower prices?
Click to expand...
The G1 is out on the market now, and has been for many months. Its
got good pricing, about $650 with the kit lens. Were you not aware
of this?

There's no upgrading that the G1 needs. The difference between the
two is video.
LizaWitz said:
I wonder what percentage of potential m4/3 buyers want to pay a lot
more to get high quality video, or any video at all? On my FZ8, I
have never even switched the video on.
Click to expand...
It doesn't matter the percentage- you act as if there can only be one
camera. Those who don't value video, like yourself, can get the G1.
Its essentially the same camera- only you don't have to pay for that
feature that you don't value.

Everyone wins, why all the complaining?
Click to expand...
I think it has been obvious and articulated well: No reasonable priced single lens replacement for the fz60 or the like for the G1. If, today, panasonic came out with a 14-140mm lens starting at f3.5(Im sure some want faster, but this is good enough for me) around 500-600 dollars, I myself would get online and drop the dough for the camera with the kit lens and then get the zoom lens.

I have been waiting for 4 years to replace my FZ3 because I wanted the right camera, and the G1 is the right camera without the right lens(at least for me at the moment)

Dj
 
Of course someone could argue, "oh for a 10x zoom shouldn't we be looking at 500 dollars?" (remember this is a fairly slow zoom). Well maybe, it will depend on quality. A Sigma 18-200 stabilised goes for around 400 dollars, but a Tamron 18-200 for 250, while the Nikon is nearly 600.

Now factor in a kit discount, remember that the G1's price includes a not so bad kit lens. Ok maybe you'd get to 1200 dollars in a good economy.

But this is not a good economy. And also, surely Panasonic, while not discounting the brand especially on such nice new products, also want to see the m43 standard gain share, not just sit on shelves due to the high price?

I look at the D90 and it can be found w 18-200 kit for 1200 dollars or even a bit less. It's video is less capable than the specs of the GH1 but it's not horrible. And its photo quality will be a good bit better. And that's from the photo brand with probably the biggest pricing power out there today.

So yeah, ok, I'll give you 1'100 dollars at most. But I think the GH1 will sell better if the kit stabilises around 1'000 dollars.

Which, again, remains far from "cheap" or "affordable", especially in the current economic times.
 
Both qualitywise and sizewise it's a camera in-between a DSLR and a superzoom. So it should be priced accordingly. A pricetag about half of what you are saying would be reasonable. And you can ad € 150, because it's new technology and than we are talking about a reasonable affordable camera.

I bought the 450D Canon-kit a few months ago for € 1000,00. No way this GH1 should me more expensive, unless the picture output is way, way, way better then the G1, because that was basically just not impressive for the money. It's a good cam, and amazingly smart design, but the pricetag is wasy, way off.

Greetings,
Erwin
--
Still learning.....

Sony H2
Canon 450D 18-55 IS, 55-250 IS, 50mm 1.8

Some of my pictures here:
http://www.pbase.com/ed197907/
 
I think this price is justified because they are first to market with this all-in-one design.
This is not a photocamera, it is much more than that.

If computers become much more powerfull (HD editing), software easier and price drops most people will prefer such a device.
No-one will accept a camera that can only take stills (consumers I mean).

That is why I would say the opposite ... the other camera's are overpriced because they lack important must-have (future oriented) features.

If people document events they will shoot 1080p HD (or better) video, pick some stills out of the (4MP video later on) video clips and make still photos (digital photo frame etc.) from those.
Why could canon ask so much for the first consumer oriented DSLR ?
It offered things the competition couldn't do (for that price) back then.

Same with Panasonic now. Those who think they need this GH1 don't mind the cost at all. Those less interested in video could as well buy whatever other DSLR or of course the G1.
 
stefaan said:
I think this price is justified because they are first to market with
this all-in-one design.
This is not a photocamera, it is much more than that.
If computers become much more powerfull (HD editing), software easier
and price drops most people will prefer such a device.
No-one will accept a camera that can only take stills (consumers I
mean).
That is why I would say the opposite ... the other camera's are
overpriced because they lack important must-have (future oriented)
features.
If people document events they will shoot 1080p HD (or better) video,
pick some stills out of the (4MP video later on) video clips and make
still photos (digital photo frame etc.) from those.
Why could canon ask so much for the first consumer oriented DSLR ?
It offered things the competition couldn't do (for that price) back
then.
Same with Panasonic now. Those who think they need this GH1 don't
mind the cost at all. Those less interested in video could as well
buy whatever other DSLR or of course the G1.
--
Click to expand...
This is a contradiction for panasonic then. Price does reflect the "newness" of any technology, but it also reflects the willingness for folks to get into any hobby. Panasonic can't say the G1 system is for those moving up and in the same breath have it overpriced for the market demographic they are targeting. The potential buyers are huge for this system, but not at the price. For me, again, I could care less about video. But I do want a small compact zoom lens that is affordable. There is a huge market of folks who are ready to get rid of their superzooms. Not at that price, I'm afraid.
 
It is not " in-between a DSLR and a superzoom", it "combines a DSLR and a superzoom". It can use interchangeable lens as a DSLR (superzoom cannot do it), while it can also take HD video as a superzoom (most DSLR cannot take video).

Your 450D cannot take HD video, that is why it is cheaper (as it incapable to do something that GH1 can do).

If you don't need HD video, then buy a G1. Nobody force you to ignore G1.
EDirkx said:
Both qualitywise and sizewise it's a camera in-between a DSLR and a
superzoom. So it should be priced accordingly. A pricetag about half
of what you are saying would be reasonable. And you can ad € 150,
because it's new technology and than we are talking about a
reasonable affordable camera.

I bought the 450D Canon-kit a few months ago for € 1000,00. No way
this GH1 should me more expensive, unless the picture output is way,
way, way better then the G1, because that was basically just not
impressive for the money. It's a good cam, and amazingly smart
design, but the pricetag is wasy, way off.

Greetings,
Erwin
--
Still learning.....

Sony H2
Canon 450D 18-55 IS, 55-250 IS, 50mm 1.8

Some of my pictures here:
http://www.pbase.com/ed197907/
Click to expand...
 
Then buy a G1. It is cheaper than GH1.
DjarumBlack said:
stefaan said:
I think this price is justified because they are first to market with
this all-in-one design.
This is not a photocamera, it is much more than that.
If computers become much more powerfull (HD editing), software easier
and price drops most people will prefer such a device.
No-one will accept a camera that can only take stills (consumers I
mean).
That is why I would say the opposite ... the other camera's are
overpriced because they lack important must-have (future oriented)
features.
If people document events they will shoot 1080p HD (or better) video,
pick some stills out of the (4MP video later on) video clips and make
still photos (digital photo frame etc.) from those.
Why could canon ask so much for the first consumer oriented DSLR ?
It offered things the competition couldn't do (for that price) back
then.
Same with Panasonic now. Those who think they need this GH1 don't
mind the cost at all. Those less interested in video could as well
buy whatever other DSLR or of course the G1.
--
Click to expand...
This is a contradiction for panasonic then. Price does reflect the
"newness" of any technology, but it also reflects the willingness for
folks to get into any hobby. Panasonic can't say the G1 system is for
those moving up and in the same breath have it overpriced for the
market demographic they are targeting. The potential buyers are huge
for this system, but not at the price. For me, again, I could care
less about video. But I do want a small compact zoom lens that is
affordable. There is a huge market of folks who are ready to get rid
of their superzooms. Not at that price, I'm afraid.
Click to expand...
 
Whats the going price for a D90 with no lens?
antoineb said:
I look at the D90 and it can be found w 18-200 kit for 1200 dollars
or even a bit less. It's video is less capable than the specs of the
GH1 but it's not horrible. And its photo quality will be a good bit
better. And that's from the photo brand with probably the biggest
pricing power out there today.

So yeah, ok, I'll give you 1'100 dollars at most. But I think the
GH1 will sell better if the kit stabilises around 1'000 dollars.

Which, again, remains far from "cheap" or "affordable", especially in
the current economic times.
Click to expand...
--
http://davidmarset.blogspot.com
 
Rockchan said:
DjarumBlack said:
stefaan said:
I think this price is justified because they are first to market with
this all-in-one design.
This is not a photocamera, it is much more than that.
If computers become much more powerfull (HD editing), software easier
and price drops most people will prefer such a device.
No-one will accept a camera that can only take stills (consumers I
mean).
That is why I would say the opposite ... the other camera's are
overpriced because they lack important must-have (future oriented)
features.
If people document events they will shoot 1080p HD (or better) video,
pick some stills out of the (4MP video later on) video clips and make
still photos (digital photo frame etc.) from those.
Why could canon ask so much for the first consumer oriented DSLR ?
It offered things the competition couldn't do (for that price) back
then.
Same with Panasonic now. Those who think they need this GH1 don't
mind the cost at all. Those less interested in video could as well
buy whatever other DSLR or of course the G1.
--
Click to expand...
This is a contradiction for panasonic then. Price does reflect the
"newness" of any technology, but it also reflects the willingness for
folks to get into any hobby. Panasonic can't say the G1 system is for
those moving up and in the same breath have it overpriced for the
market demographic they are targeting. The potential buyers are huge
for this system, but not at the price. For me, again, I could care
less about video. But I do want a small compact zoom lens that is
affordable. There is a huge market of folks who are ready to get rid
of their superzooms. Not at that price, I'm afraid.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Thats not the problem. The price of the 14-140 lens is. That is what I was replying too.

Dj
 
Rockchan said:
It is not " in-between a DSLR and a superzoom", it "combines a DSLR
and a superzoom". It can use interchangeable lens as a DSLR
(superzoom cannot do it), while it can also take HD video as a
superzoom (most DSLR cannot take video).
Click to expand...
It would be a combination if it could do all the things the same as a DSLR and a superzoom. It can't, so it's in between, sharing some features. .
Rockchan said:
Your 450D cannot take HD video, that is why it is cheaper (as it
incapable to do something that GH1 can do).

If you don't need HD video, then buy a G1. Nobody force you to
ignore G1.
Click to expand...
If I recall correctly, the G1 with comparable kit is more expensive than most entrylevel DSLR's.
Rockchan said:
EDirkx said:
Both qualitywise and sizewise it's a camera in-between a DSLR and a
superzoom. So it should be priced accordingly. A pricetag about half
of what you are saying would be reasonable. And you can ad € 150,
because it's new technology and than we are talking about a
reasonable affordable camera.

I bought the 450D Canon-kit a few months ago for € 1000,00. No way
this GH1 should me more expensive, unless the picture output is way,
way, way better then the G1, because that was basically just not
impressive for the money. It's a good cam, and amazingly smart
design, but the pricetag is wasy, way off.

Greetings,
Erwin
--
Still learning.....

Sony H2
Canon 450D 18-55 IS, 55-250 IS, 50mm 1.8

Some of my pictures here:
http://www.pbase.com/ed197907/
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Still learning.....

Sony H2
Canon 450D 18-55 IS, 55-250 IS, 50mm 1.8

Some of my pictures here:
http://www.pbase.com/ed197907/
 
stefaan said:
No-one will accept a camera that can only take stills (consumers I
mean).
Click to expand...
How is than that so many entry level dSLRs are selling? If by "consumers" you mean those who are shooting with compacts, well do you think 1500 euros will not be too much for them? They can buy compacts with good enough video for just a fraction of that price.

GH1 with kit lens is for now IMO good system for those who wants to shoot good videos and at the same time good photos (not consumers for sure cause this "joy" costs 1500 euros).
 
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