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Samsung's NX announcement is nothing but FUD

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...is working just as planned... bwhahahahahaha...

They sure have planted seeds of fear, uncertainty and doubt -- someone should really come up with a catchy acronym for this -- in one avid Olympus user. Woe be the valiant 'David' in the face of Samsung's 'Goliath.' I just hope 'someone' with guts enough to say it will come along and bring to light this sham -- nay 'con' if you will -- that Samsung is trying to pull over on all of us.

I mean think of what would happen if Samsung actually produced such a mythical beast as they have wildly claimed to have done -- a, gasp , APS-C camera -- who would have expected it? It would be the end of days...

..."dogs and cats living together... Mass hysteria."

I mean a whole new SYSTEM? A SYSTEM? Did I mention that it is a SYSTEM?

Well, I for one welcome our Samsung APS-C-EVIL-overlords... get it?

^ ^

S.G.

sorry ljmac, I just can't help myself... the histrionics are too much to take this morning
 
Seems that I have nothing better to do... :-)

1. The use of language. Not having anything beside a mock-up is just one aspect of it. Both Samsungs' announcements have used a special kind of language that tries to warn potential customers away from m4/3. Baisicly they have said two times that we are going to make a similar system, but with a bigger sensor. So they cleary try to retify this 4/3 "small sensor" (and therefore has a bad IQ) myth that has been gratly undermied in recent times. And as that is not enough, they make bold claims that they are going to dominate this emerging hybrid camera market without anything to even back it out yet.

2. They have nothing but a mock-up. No details about this concept at all. When m4/3 was announced, it was already well documented. Many thought that it'll take at least a year before we see a 4/3 camera, but a mature product was introduced only a month later. So it had been developed some time already. Also Olympus presented a totally different kind of possible use of m4/3 system. m4/3 parties clearly had a good idea what it could be, when they presented it. Only thing we know about NX is that it will use a APS sensor.

I do not doubt that Samsung can make impact if they want. But at the moment they seem to have a lot of catching up to do with m4/3 and they know it. So meanwhile they have to spread some FUD to be on the picture.

--

There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are. (Ernst Haas)

http://md.tsoon.com
 
ljmac said:
I mean, if it had any sort of backwards compatibility with existing
lenses at all, don't you think Samsung would have announced it? There
is no mention of Pentax anywhere, and no Pentax branding either. This
thing will be Samsung all the way. And as such, I bleieve it will
fail. Their marketing muscle hasn't gotten them anywhere in cameras
so far, and without any kind of photographic name involved or any
backwards compatibility, very few people will be prepared to buy into
it.
Click to expand...
No their marketing department has only got them to about number 2 in the world. Nokia is the largest camera manufacturer and Samsung are eating into their sales as well.... or had you forgotten to take into account cameras with built in phones?
 
ljmac said:
They announce this mock-up without any details of lens compatibility
(or anything of substance at all actually) just before PMA, yet they
won't be displaying it? (etc etc)
Click to expand...
============

What DPREVIEW lacks right now is a separate Samsung forum, where we'd at least see another perspective.

Right now, Panny/Olympus has a product out - thanks largely to Panasonic's advanced engineering capabilities, and foresight by marketing. Samsung reacted after the fact; but that does not mean that they began their effort from scratch. No one knows what's on lab benches.

Pentax has done mockups on the 645D - because when show-time arrives, it's better to have something on the stand.

Panny is staking their claim by extending the lens line - because lens-mount lock-in is the critical thing; not just the sale of a camera. The new "G1" successor spoken of in the brief DPREVIEW hands-on looks great.

In the end, it may come down to the sensor size - if there will be Samsung lens adapters, on the order of what Novoflex is doing for Lumix; a lot more people are used to APS-C crop factors; and appreciate the larger dimensions of the sensor. Count me as one liking a larger sensor (or a larger film format, for that matter).

Competition improves the breed, and the buyer is the winner. I figure Samsung with APS-C can handle a higher MP count than 4/3rds - but the MP counts out there now are plenty for most shooters. More important is image quality and noise - and here, engineering and software enter into it.
 
So we now have the HD video on a 14 MP sensor.

Wonder if it will be the same sensor that Olympus will use in its M4/3 cameras?

--
Shoot the Light fantastic
 
wolfie said:
So we now have the HD video on a 14 MP sensor.

Wonder if it will be the same sensor that Olympus will use in its
M4/3 cameras?
Click to expand...
=========

Well, that's Panny marketing responding - and that's the way it's supposed to work. Competition forces prices down - which would ultimately be good news for a potential buyer of either system. 14 MP on the 4/3rds has to encounter noise problems; and it's Panny engineering's job to figure out how much detail to sacrifice; and work with those smaller photosites.

Video is an unknown in terms of the mass-market - here, interchangeable lenses could add something that a videocam cannot provide with its fixed-mount lens.

Right now the economy is holding down development budgets - if this format really broke 10 percent of sales, Canon and Nikon would both be all over it. Just because Panny has a couple of models out there, don't think that the majors have surrendered.

Sony is doing their own thing, and their own new DSC-HX1 has a lot going for it, in IT'S own niche.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0903/09030307sonydschx1.asp

“Traditional CMOS sensor technology provides higher shutter speeds, but we are using what we call an Image3 system that combines the best image, sensor and processor,” said Karim Noblecilla, senior product marketing manager in Sony Electronics’ Digital Imaging Division. “By combining this sensor with a high-quality Sony G lens and powerful BIONZ™ processor, we are able to create solutions beyond fast speed that helps consumers get better pictures.”

Sony and Panasonic watch each other closely, and have their own "industrial espionage" efforts, no doubt. What needs to be changed is the DSLR/interchangeable lens paradigm; since the megazooms likely make over 90 percent of their buyers happy with that one humongous lens. A lot of people may just not CARE about lens interchange, as a megazoom is more portable.

The question is how much Samsung got out of the Pentax relationship; and if their own engineering is competitive. We'll find out when their camera (and its lenses and adapters) arrive - whenever that is in 2009. I doubt that they can hold off until 2010; but Samsung's financials are hurting, like everyone else's.
 
Stu 5 said:
To be fully functional it will require full manual focus with a
proper focus ring. No doubt it will have this. Auto focus on a video
camera is completely useless at the best of times.
Click to expand...
I'am an avid videographer of action scenes and can tell you that you are so far from the truth it hurts.

MF is used in addition to AF, without sufficient fast AF you get very blurry scenes. You'll have to be very experienced to even remotely keep up with the action.

The Nikon and Canon DSLR's with video are barely usable and will only do well with subjects passing by in a distance and very static staged scenes.

What in heavens name gives you the impression AF is useless for (professional) digital video, MR's blog? Well he knows squat about video. I guess you still only use MF lenses on your DSLR.

--
Digifan
 
philbarton said:
wolfie said:
So we now have the HD video on a 14 MP sensor.

Wonder if it will be the same sensor that Olympus will use in its
M4/3 cameras?
Click to expand...
=========

Well, that's Panny marketing responding - and that's the way it's
supposed to work. Competition forces prices down - which would
ultimately be good news for a potential buyer of either system. 14
MP on the 4/3rds has to encounter noise problems; and it's Panny
engineering's job to figure out how much detail to sacrifice; and
work with those smaller photosites.
Click to expand...
Look at the spec again for MP and read all the detail. It does not give you 14 MP. In fact on 4/3 ratio it is a tiny bit smaller than the E-620. The extra MP is there to allow for the different aspect ratios, ie widescreen for video etc etc.
philbarton said:
Video is an unknown in terms of the mass-market - here,
interchangeable lenses could add something that a videocam cannot
provide with its fixed-mount lens.

Right now the economy is holding down development budgets - if this
format really broke 10 percent of sales, Canon and Nikon would both
be all over it. Just because Panny has a couple of models out there,
don't think that the majors have surrendered.

Sony is doing their own thing, and their own new DSC-HX1 has a lot
going for it, in IT'S own niche.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0903/09030307sonydschx1.asp

“Traditional CMOS sensor technology provides higher shutter speeds,
but we are using what we call an Image3 system that combines the best
image, sensor and processor,” said Karim Noblecilla, senior product
marketing manager in Sony Electronics’ Digital Imaging Division. “By
combining this sensor with a high-quality Sony G lens and powerful
BIONZ™ processor, we are able to create solutions beyond fast speed
that helps consumers get better pictures.”

Sony and Panasonic watch each other closely, and have their own
"industrial espionage" efforts, no doubt. What needs to be changed
is the DSLR/interchangeable lens paradigm; since the megazooms likely
make over 90 percent of their buyers happy with that one humongous
lens. A lot of people may just not CARE about lens interchange, as a
megazoom is more portable.

The question is how much Samsung got out of the Pentax relationship;
and if their own engineering is competitive. We'll find out when
their camera (and its lenses and adapters) arrive - whenever that is
in 2009. I doubt that they can hold off until 2010; but Samsung's
financials are hurting, like everyone else's.
Click to expand...
 
Stu 5 said:
Stu 5 said:
wolfie said:
So we now have the HD video on a 14 MP sensor.

Wonder if it will be the same sensor that Olympus will use in its
M4/3 cameras?
Click to expand...
=========
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Stu 5 said:
philbarton said:
Well, that's Panny marketing responding - and that's the way it's
supposed to work. Competition forces prices down - which would
ultimately be good news for a potential buyer of either system. 14
MP on the 4/3rds has to encounter noise problems; and it's Panny
engineering's job to figure out how much detail to sacrifice; and
work with those smaller photosites.
Click to expand...
Look at the spec again for MP and read all the detail. It does not
give you 14 MP. In fact on 4/3 ratio it is a tiny bit smaller than
the E-620. The extra MP is there to allow for the different aspect
ratios, ie widescreen for video etc etc.
Click to expand...
========

That was Wolfie bringing up the 14 MP - personally, I doubt that it would be practical to use that many MP on an 4/3 sized sensor.

My question is whether the anti-noise processing kicks in for the entire 14 MP on the sensor; or only the portion covered by a specific aspect ratio within. If the "final image" is processed, it's more practical, and takes less processing power.

Just for perspective - here's a Wikipedia link showing the various sensor sizes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SensorSizes.svg

Just in terms of area, I prefer APS-C over 4/3 (and of course FF over APS-C). That said, people are shooting Panny FZ-28 are are perfectly happy with it ... and understand that any "system" camera with fixed lens can only do so much.

The benefits of the new Lumix, to me, are about a lot more than sheer sensor capacity:

"Supporting the DMC-GH1's powerful full-HD movie recording function is a newly developed 12.1-megapixel high-speed Live MOS sensor and the Venus Engine HD image processor, which features two CPUs for outstanding processing capability. The new LUMIX G VARIO HD 14-140mm/F4.0-5.8 ASPH. MEGA O.I.S., which is a versatile 10x zoom interchangeable lens, was designed for movie recording by including a silent and continuous auto focusing function and seamless aperture adjustment."

This is kind of a digital version of the old muscle car HP race; and no one statistic should overwhelm the whole.
 
What Samsung is doing is a very different thing from Oly's MFT mock-up (I still can't believe some people aren't able to see that for themselves) and is classic, blatant FUD.
 
LOL again! :-)

Once again, I have no problem with honest competition, but I do have a big problem with FUD. Fortunately though, Panny is so far ahead of even Samsung's imaginary release date (let alone the real one) that Samsung's FUD doesn't seem to be working. Indeed, those big lens mock-ups will hardly be appealing to a market that's looking for compactness, compared with Panny's far more petite MFT lenses, which just happen to actually exist! Plus the G1 does seems to be selling very well, and I'm sure the G-H1 will sell even better.

I've always found Samsung's "bigger is better" argument to be absurd in the micro EVIL market. :-)
 
Just saying something doesn't make it so. There is a lot of evidence to suggest that Samsung is spreading FUD; where is the evidence that I am (apart from the fact that I'm just a forum poster, and Samsung is a multinational company with a huge PR budget)?
 
But you obviously don't, otherwise it would be blatantly obvious to you that that is exactly what Samsung is spreading.
 
Just saying something doesn't make it so. Where is your evidence to support your contention that I am wrong about this?
 
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