Samsung's NX announcement is nothing but FUD

Who cares if what they show isn't real or not, is it hard to believe that samsung as a major player in the electronic industry with far more resources and money than olympus; couldn't release this product in due time? Look at how fast panasonic managed to release the G1. Was it rushed? Sure as hell was since they probably found out that one of their arch rival electronics company had started work on something as well. Otherwise you wouldn't have average performing lenses from a company that produced some of the best 4/3 lenses out there and a lack of video implementation(that second knob looks awfully blank huh?), i'm confident these things were intended to be there from day 1.

The NX system be out a lot sooner than most people here think and it will provide competition, competition between major corporations is a good thing for the consumer.

Some of you fanboys are something else.
--
Oldschool Evolt shooter

lloyd007 said:

3 things...

1. Backwards compatibility. I really don't see NX gaining much
traction without good backwards compatibility with Pentax stuff.
People want compatibility it is one of the big reasons 4/3rds took so
long getting off the ground. The only way around this is in the
outlandish event Samsung has a whole lineup of consumer to advance
amateur lenses waiting in the wings (that is in the even Pentax isn't
compatibile)

2. It has to either be clearly better or clearly cheaper then
m4/3rds. By the time Samsung comes out with NX the G1HD will be out
(and I'll bet it will be awesome with better IQ than a consumer video
cam with all the benefits of the DSLR system it is based on) and
Olympus will have either released or be close to the release of it's
version of m4/3rds. From the mockup the NX already has a big strike
against it in that it does NOT have an articulating screen. People
might not care so much about the extra 2 mp or 1/2 stop difference in
noise considering how big the articulating screen feature is on these
cameras. Being conservative on features will kill NX quickly. The
zoom lenses they show are already way too big as well.
If they lose the feature war they'd better win the price war... $399
or even $299 for an NX kit would undercut Panasonic pretty well
(although maybe not Olympus), but considering they are probably going
to be sticking Schneider's name on their lenses that is unlikely to
happen.

Click to expand...

Don't bet on a Panasonic being good on video. They might be good at pro video but the consumer amateur range is complete junk. Poorly built, lacking very basic features and truly dreadful menus. Samsung on the other hand is much better at video. You only have to look at the stuff they make for Sony.

lloyd007 said:

3. It has to have good marketing. They'll be going up against the
advance P&S on one end and DSLR/m4/3 on the other. Marketing will
have to be good or they'll get crushed.

Click to expand...

When Samsung actually produces something of substance, we'll see then. Micro 4/3rds was ready to go when it was announced; Samsung's "second half of 2009" release date is pure BS and obviously FUD.

Quote "the consumer amateur range is complete junk..."
Don't know how you came to this conclusion, but my experience is the opposite.

Dunno how the Samsung NX system will turn out to be, but the Panasonic video implementation is more than OK.
Panasonic makes some of the best camcorders (pro and consumer).
The new 2009 line of camcorder is proof of that.
The easy-of-use and features are about the best money can buy.

I think (in fact more like anticipate because we don't know yet) we will be amazed about the Panasonic G HD.

I think one thing is almost sure after reading many posts about the NX on the Pentax forum. This is a Samsung only effort.

The pictures of the Camera and the one with three different(BIG) lenses have no sign of ANY Pentax involvement.

The lenses mounted to the NX have optical stabilisation, as in lens, and have not been mounted to an adapter. Nor are they branded with any FL indication etc.
So these could well be very early mockups or just CAD presentations.

Everybody in the PST Forum seem to think that if they are pentax K-lenses they will AF, which they will not in my opinion.

There is even one reaction stating that the unbranding could mean that Samsung is looking for lens mfgrs. which imo is very late at this stage in order to get a full product line out in second half of 2009.

Well all considering I think NX is far from being ready to release in that period

--
Digifan

lloyd007 said:

3 things...

1. Backwards compatibility. I really don't see NX gaining much
traction without good backwards compatibility with Pentax stuff.
People want compatibility it is one of the big reasons 4/3rds took so
long getting off the ground. The only way around this is in the
outlandish event Samsung has a whole lineup of consumer to advance
amateur lenses waiting in the wings (that is in the even Pentax isn't
compatibile)

Click to expand...

I think legacy support for any of these upcoming micro systems is a moot point, it's more of an afterthought than anything imo. Photography enthusiasts with full fledged dslr systems that will actually use thier bigger lenses on these bodies make-up a very small percentage. To me it's similar to how there was om support for 4/3's . . . .

I really don't think you could bring up the point about amateur lenses when these systems aren't aimed towards professionals or hardcore enthusiasts and panasonic themselves have released some very average if not sub-par lenses themselves. It's safe to say most of these shooters will be jpeg, internal image processing can do wonders!

lloyd007 said:

2. It has to either be clearly better or clearly cheaper then
m4/3rds. By the time Samsung comes out with NX the G1HD will be out
(and I'll bet it will be awesome with better IQ than a consumer video
cam with all the benefits of the DSLR system it is based on) and
Olympus will have either released or be close to the release of it's
version of m4/3rds. From the mockup the NX already has a big strike
against it in that it does NOT have an articulating screen. People
might not care so much about the extra 2 mp or 1/2 stop difference in
noise considering how big the articulating screen feature is on these
cameras. Being conservative on features will kill NX quickly. The
zoom lenses they show are already way too big as well.
If they lose the feature war they'd better win the price war... $399
or even $299 for an NX kit would undercut Panasonic pretty well
(although maybe not Olympus), but considering they are probably going
to be sticking Schneider's name on their lenses that is unlikely to
happen.

Click to expand...

Again I see the articulating screen feature as something that isn't a huge deal in for this market, thiers a reason why only a select few cameras have them. If the demand for this feature isn't high for the crowds they are marketing this towards. Remember these systems aren't aimed for the hardcore photographers or professionals.

lloyd007 said:

3. It has to have good marketing. They'll be going up against the
advance P&S on one end and DSLR/m4/3 on the other. Marketing will
have to be good or they'll get crushed.

Click to expand...

Samsung has this covered since they are now a household name up there with panasonic and sony as recognizable brands that people buy products based on the name itself. Their marketing team seems pretty good when they are on top of things, this is a company that surpassed the big 2(sony,panasonic) in tv sales. If you haven't noticed olympus' marketing attempts have been an epic fail so far, which is sad because I really like 4/3's and see it as a great compliment to FF.
--
Oldschool Evolt shooter

stefaan said:

Quote "the consumer amateur range is complete junk..."
Don't know how you came to this conclusion, but my experience is the
opposite.

Click to expand...

Having sold it in the past for years. Used it. Had friends totally disappointed by the purchases of it and then having to buy something else. Your never get a DOP recommending the purchase of it to friends even if they use the pro stuff which I said is very good (although P2 card costs are a complete rip off for what they are). They will always say go Sony because they consider it so poor. Even have one in the room at the moment that I am editing the footage from that Panasonic makes and a client used for filming who has said they will never use the thing again because of how badly made it is and much stuff it messed up on.

stefaan said:

Dunno how the Samsung NX system will turn out to be, but the
Panasonic video implementation is more than OK.
Panasonic makes some of the best camcorders (pro and consumer).
The new 2009 line of camcorder is proof of that.
The easy-of-use and features are about the best money can buy.
I think (in fact more like anticipate because we don't know yet) we
will be amazed about the Panasonic G HD.
--

Click to expand...

Since you're the FUD police and all. . . .

ljmac said:

When Samsung actually produces something of substance, we'll see
then. Micro 4/3rds was ready to go when it was announced; Samsung's
"second half of 2009" release date is pure BS and obviously FUD.

Click to expand...

--
Oldschool Evolt shooter

esco said:

I think legacy support for any of these upcoming micro systems is a
moot point, it's more of an afterthought than anything imo.
Photography enthusiasts with full fledged dslr systems that will
actually use thier bigger lenses on these bodies make-up a very small
percentage. To me it's similar to how there was om support for 4/3's
. . . .

Click to expand...

Look how long it took for 4/3rds to get on its feet... It wasn't until the E-500 (and really the E-510) that 4/3rds gained any traction... m4/3 has 10 lenses with good compatibility and 30 more with 'so so' compatibility. If Samsung has NO compatibility which seems to be the case here they will have what? 2-3 lenses? And aside from the pancake prime how will NX be any better than... say... the Canon SX1 or any other high end superzoom with all the bells and whistles?

esco said:

I really don't think you could bring up the point about amateur
lenses when these systems aren't aimed towards professionals or
hardcore enthusiasts and panasonic themselves have released some very
average if not sub-par lenses themselves. It's safe to say most of
these shooters will be jpeg, internal image processing can do wonders!

Click to expand...

They have to have higher end lenses or else they will be roasted and lambasted as being a low end system. I mean why put the inconvenience of an interchangeable lens system with bigger lenses and a bigger sensor when you are sticking a junk lens in front. Better to get a high end superzoom or budget DSLR then!

esco said:

Again I see the articulating screen feature as something that isn't a
huge deal in for this market, thiers a reason why only a select few
cameras have them. If the demand for this feature isn't high for the
crowds they are marketing this towards. Remember these systems aren't
aimed for the hardcore photographers or professionals.

Click to expand...

At the price they are going for which I assume is $400 and up they are going for beginning amateurs and up. The novices and snapshooters will be getting a $300 and less P&S / superzoom with 256MP anyway. The people they are looking to snag will be looking for features and right now an articulating screen is one of the WOW! iest features up there with HD video.

esco said:

Samsung has this covered since they are now a household name up there
with panasonic and sony as recognizable brands that people buy
products based on the name itself. Their marketing team seems pretty
good when they are on top of things, this is a company that surpassed
the big 2(sony,panasonic) in tv sales. If you haven't noticed
olympus' marketing attempts have been an epic fail so far, which is
sad because I really like 4/3's and see it as a great compliment to
FF.
--
Oldschool Evolt shooter

Click to expand...

True Samsung has had a good marketing team for a lot of items BUT their marketing for still cameras has stunk plain and simple and they will be going up against Panasonic (which has established its name as THE premium P&S camera maker) and Olympus (known for it's tough P&S and innovative technologies). Their marketing department hasn't proven anything in the still camera dept.
--

Edit: Going to point one Olympus alienated and otherwise REALLY ticked off a lot of OM users by trying to 'clean break' with 4/3rds. Samsung has been working with Pentax and now will be 'breaking' with Pentax and as such they've the potential to create a nasty 'anti-Samsung' army of Pentax users who will do nothing but bash NX and heaven help Samsung if Pentax decides to go m4/3 or release it's own mAPS line

I think the reason the mock-up lenses have OIS switches on them is because their mock-up designer copied them from Panny's MFT lenses.

avidday said:

I am only enquiring has to how this is different to what Olympus have
done thus far?

Click to expand...

Do you really not see the difference or do you just try to whip up an argument here? This is so obvious, I am not even sure I need to point it out.

Samsung has produced a bunch of press releases, but nothing substantive. They have done so at times when people talk about m4/3 and EVIL cameras. If you read between the lines then essentially every press release has "do not buy m4/3 yet, as we have something better with bigger sensor that will be out soon" written all over it.

In contrast, Olympus has never said that they want to compete with Panasonic for the market that the G1 is designed for. They have said right from the start that 4/3 is their thing and that they see m4/3 for smaller cameras only and not as a competition for small DSLRs. Olympus has also spend quite some time figuring out to what degrees their lenses can work (or fail to work) on the G1, even though the G1 is not their camera.

There is a big difference if I make a bunch of announcements to keep people from buying one product or if I announce that something is a technology that we may also be looking at in the future.

and it will probably follow the 4/3 example - custom lenses for the micro, Pentax glass with an adapter. Oly showed the same thing last fall, a mockup. Here we are a few months later, with the G1 on the market, and the E620 thumbing it's nose at M4/3.

The only thing I would wonder about is using APS/C in a smaller package. Most people who place a premium on size, put that foremost in their mind. The slight, if any, advantage that APS/C has over 4/3 will be offset by an inherently larger camera. Comparing Pentax to Olympus, I can't say that either system has a demonstrated edge in IQ, it comes down to available glass.

On a more positive note, this new camera will be getting the lenses from a master pancake lens maker.

I will be interested to see how they solve the light angle problem. With the lens so close to the sensor, it will be getting light at an angle. Supposedly, Pana made its new sensors with shallow light wells to get around this. Samsumg is making its own sensors, so they will have to solve that issue.

lloyd007 said:

Samsung has been working with Pentax and now will be 'breaking' with
Pentax and as such they've the potential to create a nasty
'anti-Samsung' army of Pentax users who will do nothing but bash NX
and heaven help Samsung if Pentax decides to go m4/3 or release it's
own mAPS line

Click to expand...

--
You can say that again!

Jan

TrapperJohn said:

On a more positive note, this new camera will be getting the lenses
from a master pancake lens maker.

Click to expand...

Has there actually been any mention of Pentax with this announcement? I think Samsung mentioned this new format soon after m4/3 was announced and I don't recall any mention of Pentax then either.

lloyd007 said:

lloyd007 said:

I think legacy support for any of these upcoming micro systems is a
moot point, it's more of an afterthought than anything imo.
Photography enthusiasts with full fledged dslr systems that will
actually use thier bigger lenses on these bodies make-up a very small
percentage. To me it's similar to how there was om support for 4/3's
. . . .

Click to expand...

Look how long it took for 4/3rds to get on its feet... It wasn't
until the E-500 (and really the E-510) that 4/3rds gained any
traction... m4/3 has 10 lenses with good compatibility and 30 more
with 'so so' compatibility. If Samsung has NO compatibility which
seems to be the case here they will have what? 2-3 lenses? And aside
from the pancake prime how will NX be any better than... say... the
Canon SX1 or any other high end superzoom with all the bells and
whistles?

Click to expand...

It's not like I fully disagree here but I just don't think the people that they are aiming this system towards are going to end up buying more than a couple of lenses on thier first few months of purchase anyway. Average lenses will be launched while the specialty Schneider labeled ones will come later, no different than what Panasonic is doing.

lloyd007 said:

lloyd007 said:

I really don't think you could bring up the point about amateur
lenses when these systems aren't aimed towards professionals or
hardcore enthusiasts and panasonic themselves have released some very
average if not sub-par lenses themselves. It's safe to say most of
these shooters will be jpeg, internal image processing can do wonders!

Click to expand...

They have to have higher end lenses or else they will be roasted and
lambasted as being a low end system. I mean why put the inconvenience
of an interchangeable lens system with bigger lenses and a bigger
sensor when you are sticking a junk lens in front. Better to get a
high end superzoom or budget DSLR then!

Click to expand...

You could say that to many who buy entry level dslr's that only shoot in daylight and have a maximum of 2 lenses or those that just use an all in one megazoom.

lloyd007 said:

lloyd007 said:

Again I see the articulating screen feature as something that isn't a
huge deal in for this market, thiers a reason why only a select few
cameras have them. If the demand for this feature isn't high for the
crowds they are marketing this towards. Remember these systems aren't
aimed for the hardcore photographers or professionals.

Click to expand...

At the price they are going for which I assume is $400 and up they
are going for beginning amateurs and up. The novices and snapshooters
will be getting a $300 and less P&S / superzoom with 256MP anyway.
The people they are looking to snag will be looking for features and
right now an articulating screen is one of the WOW! iest features up
there with HD video.

Click to expand...

I guess time will tell, I could be wrong on this one.

lloyd007 said:

lloyd007 said:

Samsung has this covered since they are now a household name up there
with panasonic and sony as recognizable brands that people buy
products based on the name itself. Their marketing team seems pretty
good when they are on top of things, this is a company that surpassed
the big 2(sony,panasonic) in tv sales. If you haven't noticed
olympus' marketing attempts have been an epic fail so far, which is
sad because I really like 4/3's and see it as a great compliment to
FF.
--
Oldschool Evolt shooter

Click to expand...

True Samsung has had a good marketing team for a lot of items BUT
their marketing for still cameras has stunk plain and simple and they
will be going up against Panasonic (which has established its name as
THE premium P&S camera maker) and Olympus (known for it's tough P&S
and innovative technologies). Their marketing department hasn't
proven anything in the still camera dept.

Click to expand...

I'd say samsung and oly's camera marketing are a tie here, which isn't saying much! What we do know is that samsung is capable of putting a lot of heat on the competition if they choose to. With dslr's samsung's efforts actually benefitted pentax as well, with this micro system it's safe to say samsung will reap nearly all the benefits and profits of their work. You'll see a much more different approach here because of this. Look at how different panasonic is with the g1 ;-)

lloyd007 said:

Edit: Going to point one Olympus alienated and otherwise REALLY
ticked off a lot of OM users by trying to 'clean break' with 4/3rds.
Samsung has been working with Pentax and now will be 'breaking' with
Pentax and as such they've the potential to create a nasty
'anti-Samsung' army of Pentax users who will do nothing but bash NX
and heaven help Samsung if Pentax decides to go m4/3 or release it's
own mAPS line

Click to expand...

They did tick off a lot of loyal customers but I think it's a situation that they created for themselves as soon as they skipped out on the af-s game entirely during the film days and it's still haunting them till' this day because thier overall af-s performance still isn't up to par with the competition imo, theirs a lot of af-s r&d that they didn't do while canikon were busy already refining theirs.
--
Oldschool Evolt shooter

I mean, if it had any sort of backwards compatibility with existing lenses at all, don't you think Samsung would have announced it? There is no mention of Pentax anywhere, and no Pentax branding either. This thing will be Samsung all the way. And as such, I bleieve it will fail. Their marketing muscle hasn't gotten them anywhere in cameras so far, and without any kind of photographic name involved or any backwards compatibility, very few people will be prepared to buy into it.

It's possible because I have no idea which models you mean.
I have owned a.o. the Panasonic GS500 and was very pleased with it.
Good build and IQ.
I know Sony is known for and produces great consumer cameras.

The newer consumer AVCHD cams (until 2009 models) felt poor and were maybe not really as good as e.g. Sony SR12 of HF10 IQ-wise in low light, but saying they are really bad ?? (only handled one AVCHD Panasonic briefly and saw footage of it so can't really have a valid opinion).

At least Oly has a wooden model and not a photoshop creation.
--
WarrenKK

PetPeeve: posting a 800x600 to show anything other than how soft my lens is or why I need new glasses.

their press release, they expect to be the #1 camera maker by 2012????
Do they really think they can best Sony Canon & Nikon in just three years?

But who knows, maybe they already have two bodies and five lenses in production that will blow away everything else on the market. Or maybe it's all just hype. I guess we'll know soon enough. I'm not going to worry either way.
--
Art P



Select images may be seen here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8131242@N04/

ljmac said:

Samsung is engaging in classic FUD tactics here.

Click to expand...

You said Samsung made this announcement in hopes that people won't buy Oly's micro-4/3. How is it any different from Oly showing a mockup while Pany sells a real one? Don't you think Oly would be guilty of the same tactic?