Mac Pro Clone

Right and until you guys produce more than the claim of one it's
still just a myth.
Problem with trolls like you, no matter how many times a claim is backed up, you just ignore it and pretend whatever you want to pretend. I am beginning to think that lying is a fundamental tactic for you.

Since this is so common, I've started cutting and pasting-- not going to let you waste my time when you will never defend your own assertions.

AUTOMATED MYTH RESPONSE: "All computers are same"

On the PC side, just about everyone uses motherboards from the same few manufacturers and they compete completely costs. The PC business is a commodity business. Thus they work very hard to cut corners where they can, use lower cost resistors, capacitors and other basic components. They can do this because the average PC will be junked by the time the components wear out, or when they do the owner will just figure its time to get a new PC. Electronics manufacturing is fundamnetally more reliable than past industries, but its not like they never break. And when you skimp you can get components that last only a few months or maybe a several quarters -- rather than many years. Last big company I worked for, was having to repair the average laptop from a major "Brand name" PC manufacturer on average once every year. In my team, we would lose several days of productivity from people every month because their machine would go down for one reason or another due to poor manufacturing quality.

Apple actually designs its own hardware, and in doing so uses higher priced and higher quality and custom components. This gives it quality advantages-- PCs don't seem to last very long at all. But it also gives it feature advantages-- for instance, the trackpads on Macs have responded to mutli-touch gestures for several years now. I don't think any PCs support that feature yet. Apple builds ASICS to support custom features, and to provide better performance. ASICs cost a fair bit, but they give Apple competitive advantages that PC makers can't match.

This is why, the Mac is pulling ahead of the PC-- not just in operating system quality, but due to superior hardware resulting in superior performance and features you can't get on PCs.... or when you do you get them several years after the Mac. First to mac were CD Roms, DVD drives, USB, Firewire, DisplayPort, etc.
 
This is a dishonest statement.
What is dishonest about it? You just don't like it?
You know what else is dishonest? Cutting where someone explains a statement and then saying "You just don't like it" as if I hadn't explained exactly how it was dishonest. You trolls really are pathetic. Here's the full response:

"OS X is not "Crippled" it simply makes use of hardware that doesn't generally exist in generic PCs. For instance, a multi-touch capable trackpad in the laptops allow for complex gestures. Many PC laptops don't even have a trackpad.

Further, Apple's margins on hardware are thin, which is why they are able to compete on price with PCs. They have huge margins on software because software has almost zero marignal cost."
A trackpad is just a device. What are you saying? Because a Mac has
this certain trackpad, the core hardware platform is different? Very
convincing proof there, Liza Witz
It really gets tiring arguing with people who know nothing about hardware. You might as well say that "a display is just a device" and therefore assert that a black and white display can show colors cause its "just a device".

Different hardware has different features. The trackpads on MacBooks are mutli-touch.
Further, Apple's margins on hardware are thin, which is why they are
able to compete on price with PCs. They have huge margins on
software because software has almost zero marignal cost.
O.K. Would you like to tell us what Apple charges for extra RAM? And
why everybody on this forum advices to buy RAM elsewhere? I've heard
something similar about hard-disks too.
Upgrades that apple charges a premium for because its margins on the machines are thin. Jesus, you guys really need better training in your troll logic classes.
Any comment?
Yeah, why are you trolling the Mac Talk forums? IS your life that empty that you have to come and harass mac users?
 
So, why can't OS X run on x86? Obvious because of marketing
decisions. Apple fears cheap clones.
Well, at least we have a PC troll admitting that the PoCs people buy are "Cheap".... and that aint just the price.

Anyway, your mind is made up and no amount of facts will dissuade you, but we can always try again:

AUTOMATED MYTH RESPONSE: "All computers are same"

On the PC side, just about everyone uses motherboards from the same few manufacturers and they compete completely costs. The PC business is a commodity business. Thus they work very hard to cut corners where they can, use lower cost resistors, capacitors and other basic components. They can do this because the average PC will be junked by the time the components wear out, or when they do the owner will just figure its time to get a new PC. Electronics manufacturing is fundamnetally more reliable than past industries, but its not like they never break. And when you skimp you can get components that last only a few months or maybe a several quarters -- rather than many years. Last big company I worked for, was having to repair the average laptop from a major "Brand name" PC manufacturer on average once every year. In my team, we would lose several days of productivity from people every month because their machine would go down for one reason or another due to poor manufacturing quality.

Apple actually designs its own hardware, and in doing so uses higher priced and higher quality and custom components. This gives it quality advantages-- PCs don't seem to last very long at all. But it also gives it feature advantages-- for instance, the trackpads on Macs have responded to mutli-touch gestures for several years now. I don't think any PCs support that feature yet. Apple builds ASICS to support custom features, and to provide better performance. ASICs cost a fair bit, but they give Apple competitive advantages that PC makers can't match.

This is why, the Mac is pulling ahead of the PC-- not just in operating system quality, but due to superior hardware resulting in superior performance and features you can't get on PCs.... or when you do you get them several years after the Mac. First to mac were CD Roms, DVD drives, USB, Firewire, DisplayPort, etc.
Liza said it was silly, in other words: impossible. that is incorrect.
No, not impossible, just a stupid argument.
By the way, I repeat, in my opinion there's nothing wrong with Apples
decision to tie the OS to the hardware, but it is a business
decision, not a technical.
Of course, because you know nothing about the internals of machines you assert its a business decision.

Notice you haven't provided any reason to back up this belief, you just repeat it over and over.
 
They run OS X just fine,
and yet
I would not recommend a generic x86 OS X box to anyone not able to
fix complicated installation issues. It is very much an enthusiast's
activity.
Yes, that's right. I'm sure anyone without a chip on their shoulder
completely understands what I said. There is a difference between
running and installing. Those here who say that PCs can't run OS X
well have never tried it. A Mac is a PC.
Oh, excuse me, stupid of me to expect you to be consistent. Or honest.
 
Keep drinking the cool aid Liza.
Liza's First Law of Internet Arguing:

Anyone who refers to their opponent as a "Fanboy" or "Zealot" as an attempt to discredit them, without providing supporting arguments, is engaging in projection, and in truth is revealing both their motives and lack of credibility. This term can be used when someone rejects objective reality, and proves themselves to be a zealot.

But the person whose only argument is that someone is a fanboy, or uses this to try and support some other argument, automatically loses.

Its kinda amazing how every mac owners becomes a "zealot" in the eyes of those who don't like the Mac. This leads to the follow on argument, which must seem like a logical conclusion to them, that Apple is only able to sell computers due to people being suckered into their "hype".
designed generic PC hardware.
Picking cards off the shelf does not count as "Designing" a PC. If you've laid out a PC motherboard, tell me the details about it, or STFU. IF you had actually designed a PC motherboard you would know that:
Frankly there is no difference between them.
Is a flat out lie.

You and the PC trolls can insist that there's no difference so you can try and support the myth that Macs are overpriced, but the fact of the matter is this is not the case and I've shown it many times.
 
You just proved my point. Toughbooks have been around since the 1990s, and are actually a copy of the Tadpole approach which existed around that time.

You point to something that wasn't ever really an innovation-- its easy to put a computer in a magnesium alloy case- the NeXT was such a computer-- and even if your standards are so low as to call that an innovation--its about 20 years old.

I think 20 decades qualifies as "innovation has left the PC industry".

LOL!
Just because innovation and quality have left the PC industry,
doesn't mean Apple's following the crowd in that regard.
Left the PC Industry has it?

http://www.panasonic.com/business/Toughbook/fully-rugged-computers.asp

Magnessium Alloy is much stronger than the materials used on the
Macbooks.

--
'I'll keep my God, my freedom, my guns, and my money. You can keep
'THE CHANGE.'
 
Very interesting-- your comment about OSX being available to the masses is very revealing. It is available to the Masses- you can get a mac for less than a comperable PC now.

I think the problem is that you think a piece of junk PC that costs little is the same as an expensive computer... and so you think Apple's cheating you by making you buy a computer that will last more than 6 months.

Anyway, you can't run OSX on a non-mac without "hacks" or without chunks of the OS not working.
 
Yeah, why are you trolling the Mac Talk forums? IS your life that
empty that you have to come and harass mac users?
I don't harass anybody. I was having a decent conversation. I don't call anybody anything, unlike you keep doing over and over again, hijacking treads, calling people all kinds of things.

You're behaving very immature, Lisa Witz

JohnnyWB
--
pleeze ignore ze typo's ;)
 
I have a Mac??? What part of that did you miss? The real issue is the fact that so many have a computer and don't need to buy another yet would probably buy the Operating System.

The clone market failed before because people weren't going to buy a second machine when they already had one... Now they have 600+ Million PCs world wide with better than half capable of running the OS and they're resisting, why? because they sell hardware and cut corners like the rest.

As far as your PC of Junk PC Statement goes, that's the revealing part... You probably bought the little junk box e-machines and now you hate the PC because of your poor decisions.

Oh and as for running unmodified OS X on a non-mac, go check out the EFI-X website and you'll see they have configurations that work just fine with the OS X Disc Installing straight from the box and yet you still believe there's a difference.
Very interesting-- your comment about OSX being available to the
masses is very revealing. It is available to the Masses- you can get
a mac for less than a comperable PC now.

I think the problem is that you think a piece of junk PC that costs
little is the same as an expensive computer... and so you think
Apple's cheating you by making you buy a computer that will last more
than 6 months.

Anyway, you can't run OSX on a non-mac without "hacks" or without
chunks of the OS not working.
--
'I'll keep my God, my freedom, my guns, and my money. You can keep 'THE CHANGE.'
 
Right and until you guys produce more than the claim of one it's
still just a myth.
Problem with trolls like you, no matter how many times a claim is
backed up, you just ignore it and pretend whatever you want to
pretend. I am beginning to think that lying is a fundamental tactic
for you.
I thought you were only a troll if you didn't own a Mac? hmm going to have to study that definition again are you?
Since this is so common, I've started cutting and pasting-- not going
to let you waste my time when you will never defend your own
assertions.

AUTOMATED MYTH RESPONSE: "All computers are same"
Blah, Blah, Blah...

No Proof just more Blah, Blah, Blah with nothing to back it up.

This is why, the Mac is pulling ahead of the PC-- not just in
operating system quality, but due to superior hardware resulting in
superior performance and features you can't get on PCs.... or when
you do you get them several years after the Mac. First to mac were
CD Roms, DVD drives, USB, Firewire, DisplayPort, etc.
I don't know where you get this stuff, USB was an Intel design and Firewire was an Apple design the two were released around the same time... As for DVD drives, not sure how you can make that claim? I had one in my PC before the new Mac revolution got off the ground but my PC wasn't a name brand box.

--
'I'll keep my God, my freedom, my guns, and my money. You can keep 'THE CHANGE.'
 
She knows one thing and that's Mac Bias... Even when called to
account for these mysterious pieces of hardware she spots off about
Asics (these are alternative CPU's used in things like the I-Phone
but not in the latest Macs)...
LOL! An ASIC is an "Application Specific Integrated Circuit". Its
chip designed to add features to a machine, that are specific to that
model or that brand of machine. Sometimes they could be CPUS, but
they aren't "alternative CPUs"
You don't know, go look up the company apple bought, the ASICs they have there are nothing more than Alternative CPUs. Those are the only ASICs they have been proven to use in the past few years.
I love it when PC trolls claim I don't know what I'm talking about
and in the process use terms incorrectly, indicating that they don't
know what They are talking about!
You don't know, you stole that quote from another posting.
Reality is, Apple is selling an image and nothing more...
Yeah, you gotta keep telling yourself that os you feel better about
the PoC you bought.... but don't go saying stuff like there, this is
the Mac Talk forum, you're likely to be called on it.

And being called on it makes it a lot harder to keep yourself deluded.
Deluded? I have both, you're not listening! You know why I have both, are you ready for this, because the Apple can't do everything the PC can and the only thing the Apple can do for me the PC Can't is I-Phone Development.

You really need to control your hatred for all things Microsoft and maybe try Vista... I've had it on a machine since a few months after it was released and you know what, it's never crashed on me even once or failed to run my older software.
The
Mac is okay but there isn't anything about it that I can't do with a
PC and in some cases better on the PC (oh except for I-Phone
Development).
I love the troll tactic where you pretend to own a Mac-- which is
pretty absurd after you call all mac owners tools who where duped by
marketing.

You're not fooling anybody.
Apparently I'm fooling you because I most certainly do have one and that's not a joke... I'll get you a screen shot with one of my pictures on it and this thread in the browser how's that? Heck, you'll even see the X-Code symbol in the dock.
You're a PC Troll. Why are you in Mac Talk? IS your life that boring?
Nope but it sure is fun making you run around trying to prove the whole world wrong! =D

--
'I'll keep my God, my freedom, my guns, and my money. You can keep 'THE CHANGE.'
 
You called this alternative use of materials in the casing innovation and I merely pointed out that the PC has the same thing with better build quality... Face it, your arguments are coming back to haunt you.
You point to something that wasn't ever really an innovation-- its
easy to put a computer in a magnesium alloy case- the NeXT was such a
computer-- and even if your standards are so low as to call that an
innovation--its about 20 years old.

I think 20 decades qualifies as "innovation has left the PC industry".

LOL!
Just because innovation and quality have left the PC industry,
doesn't mean Apple's following the crowd in that regard.
Left the PC Industry has it?

http://www.panasonic.com/business/Toughbook/fully-rugged-computers.asp

Magnessium Alloy is much stronger than the materials used on the
Macbooks.

--
'I'll keep my God, my freedom, my guns, and my money. You can keep
'THE CHANGE.'
--
'I'll keep my God, my freedom, my guns, and my money. You can keep 'THE CHANGE.'
 
Nope but it sure is fun making you run around trying to prove the
whole world wrong! =D
I'm whiling away a very long boring stop over in Hong Kong airport. This thread is keeping my spirits up ;-)
 
Hong Kong Huh? Maybe you can go grab a few Macs from the assembly lines to bring back with you! ;)

Make sure they have ASICs (don't want to mis-type that again) in them because we both know that DSPs on PC Mainboards and 3D Graphics chips don't count oh or the integrated circuit used to power those LAN Adapters in PCs.

Oh and hey paul, you know what started on the PC first? 3D Graphics (not counting Unix Boxes here) hardware, Object Oriented Programming (yep, this is what Bill was talking about when he said he beat Steve to Xerox, he bought the Object Oriented Programming they were using to develop their OS) before Jobs bought the OS (of course the PC wasn't called the PC then as that phrase was coined by IBM), USB, Gamma 2.2 (the real world standard), Software DVD and 3D Gaming.
Nope but it sure is fun making you run around trying to prove the
whole world wrong! =D
I'm whiling away a very long boring stop over in Hong Kong airport.
This thread is keeping my spirits up ;-)
--
'I'll keep my God, my freedom, my guns, and my money. You can keep 'THE CHANGE.'
 
Object Oriented Programming
(yep, this is what Bill was talking about when he said he beat Steve
to Xerox, he bought the Object Oriented Programming they were using
to develop their OS) before Jobs bought the OS (of course the PC
wasn't called the PC then as that phrase was coined by IBM)
What in the world are you talking about? One does not buy object oriented programming. It's a concept and it was around long before Macs or PCs.
 
She knows one thing and that's Mac Bias... Even when called to
account for these mysterious pieces of hardware she spots off about
Asics (these are alternative CPU's used in things like the I-Phone
but not in the latest Macs)...
LOL! An ASIC is an "Application Specific Integrated Circuit". Its
chip designed to add features to a machine, that are specific to that
model or that brand of machine. Sometimes they could be CPUS, but
they aren't "alternative CPUs"
You don't know, go look up the company apple bought, the ASICs they
have there are nothing more than Alternative CPUs. Those are the
only ASICs they have been proven to use in the past few years.
Past few years?? Apple bought P.A. Semi just last year and the results of that have not made it to any product yet. Furthermore, Apple has been using custom ASICs for a long time, as have many other companies.
 
There was a particular object oriented product or language that was used by Xerox and bought by Microsoft... It's the reason they were able to copy the original Mac OS with Windows, as it gave them a free pass.
Object Oriented Programming
(yep, this is what Bill was talking about when he said he beat Steve
to Xerox, he bought the Object Oriented Programming they were using
to develop their OS) before Jobs bought the OS (of course the PC
wasn't called the PC then as that phrase was coined by IBM)
What in the world are you talking about? One does not buy object
oriented programming. It's a concept and it was around long before
Macs or PCs.
--
'I'll keep my God, my freedom, my guns, and my money. You can keep 'THE CHANGE.'
 
She knows one thing and that's Mac Bias... Even when called to
account for these mysterious pieces of hardware she spots off about
Asics (these are alternative CPU's used in things like the I-Phone
but not in the latest Macs)...
LOL! An ASIC is an "Application Specific Integrated Circuit". Its
chip designed to add features to a machine, that are specific to that
model or that brand of machine. Sometimes they could be CPUS, but
they aren't "alternative CPUs"
You don't know, go look up the company apple bought, the ASICs they
have there are nothing more than Alternative CPUs. Those are the
only ASICs they have been proven to use in the past few years.
Past few years?? Apple bought P.A. Semi just last year and the
results of that have not made it to any product yet. Furthermore,
Apple has been using custom ASICs for a long time, as have many other
companies.
As for their use, I thought there was some claim that the PA Semi products were used in some of their mobile devices... If not, I don't have an issue with that but it would make sense.

And I wasn't disputing others were using them including PC Manufacturers... Are you trying to defend her obvious bias? I'm just hoping she is able to see it.

--
'I'll keep my God, my freedom, my guns, and my money. You can keep 'THE CHANGE.'
 


--
'I'll keep my God, my freedom, my guns, and my money. You can keep 'THE CHANGE.'
 

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