DP1 vs. G1

i have them both now. i hoped so much for some comparisons with both, as i was always faszinated by the DP1 images i have seen.

now i have finally bought a DP1 by myself. it was quite a bargain for 330,- euro brand new, so i coudln't resist. initially i wanted a LX3 again (i had to return my first sample because of a lens-flaw some months ago), and i still consider it as add-on for my G1, but i finally decided to try the DP1, although i knew of all the flaws, slowness etc.

i really like both G1 and DP1, because they are quite special.

the G1 has maybe the highest resolution of all the 12 megapixel cameras, but i was surprised to see how well the DP1 compared, even scaled up. of course i compared RAWs from both. the G1 RAWs were converted with raw therapee and i tried to extract as much details as possible. i didn't bother with silkypix or G1-jpegs, as silkypix gave worse results than the upscaled DP1 images. the G1 jpegs just don't cut it and look quite mushy in comparison.

here an example, one is G1 a raw conversion with silkypix, the other one DP1 upscaled to match G1 resolution i let you decide which is which ;-)



if you want to see some further comparison samples, have a look here:
http://www.pbase.com/oluv/g1dp1

the unsharpened DP1 images (-0.8 in SPP) were upscaled with genuine fractals with texture control tweaked where i thought it would look best for this upscale-factor. i finally sharpened the final output with RL deconvolution in RAW therapee.

i would love to hear what you think of it and how i could improve the upscaling process further. i already think the DP1 images compare quite well. there are parts, that the DP1 just rendered better, but other parts like straight diagnoals and very fine detail are still quite a challange.

Thanks for the comparison. I don't plan on buying the G1 - I just have no interest - however, comparisons are always interesting.

I won't even try to guess which of the crops above is from which camera; there are just too many variables when it comes to upsizing and sharpening.

However, I looked at the samples on your Pbase site. Looking at the non-upsized DP1 image next to the original G1 image, the DP1 has a greater depth and sharpness overall. It looks less 'digital'. This may go back to the lack of AA filter and greater micro-contrast that many threads have already addressed. The Foveon sensor also has fantastic DR - maybe a factor?? Additionally, the DP1's prime lens is outstanding. What lens was used on the G1. Any zoom lens, even Canon's L-lenses, can't compare to the 28mm prime Sigma.

I think with an ideal upsizing and sharpening routine, the DP1 image would hold it's own easily in terms of resolution - but, retain the greater depth and fine detail we have come to enjoy from Foveon sensors.

Thanks for sharing.

Mark T.
Ocala, FL

Oluv, is this a replacement DP1, after this thread?
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1027&message=31053341

By the way, I looked carefully at a recent DP1 of mine online http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann/3292284732/ and it seems far sharper corner to corner than the DP1 you had in the thread of several days I linked above. Click all sizes and then original to see it in a large size.... I don't upsize or do anything incidentally to DP1 (or SD14) photo files.. so I don't comment on upsizing questions..
Best regadrs, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann

The one on the left is obviously superior so I'm assuming that's the DP1.

sorry i didn't mention it. the G1 had the kit-lens on, which is quite sharp even open.

the left crop is from the DP1 btw.

So which one you actually prefer as a go-around camera for normal usage?

it is hard to say. the G1 is the much more versatile camera. you can use it up to iso800 with very nice results (this would already be iso1600 on the DP1, as the DP1 is one stop less sensitive at any iso).

thank to the built in lens-stabilizer in the G1 kit-lensi can held shots at 90mm equivalent at 1/10 seconds steady. with the DP1 i already had problems with 1/30 in some cases.

then you have the great tilting screen, that has incredible resolution and is perfect for framing strange perspectives. but the G1 is also much bigger. although i would like to carry it around all the time, i would rather take just the DP1 in my jacket-pocket.

what i love about the DP1 are the images. SPP is really one of the most fun to use converters. you just adjust some sliders, add a bit of fill-light and the images just "pop". G1 raw files need a bit more of work. if you want to squeeze all the detail out of them, you have to be careful with sharpening, because demosaicing artefacts can appear and noise already starts to creep in at iso100.

now i cannot wait to buy the f1.7 pancake for the G1. it will make the G1 more compact and more suitable for a upcoming DP2 vs. G1 test, as both will have prime lenses with the same equivalent focal length.

--i also looked at the other examples :
my impression:

• DP1 scales very good up to the g1 size
• DP1 has better dynamic range
• CA is less pronounced in the G1 pics , CA is ugly in DP1 : is this normal ?
• in the shadows the DP1 shows color noise : purper , somtetimes green shades who are not there in reality

kindly,
guido

I want to thank you for what you have done, as you have answered some questions for me.

I have been wanting to buy a new camera for a very long time, and when I learned about the G1, I was very excited. But then, when I saw pictures from the G1, I was very disappointed. To me, pictures from the G1 have a mushy quality. This direct comparison between the DP1 and the G1 is exactly what I have been looking for. Thank you!

When I looked at the sample picture that you included in your post, I assumed that the one on the left was the G1 (because it had more detailed). However, I figured that the DP1 image (which I thought was the one on the right) was fairly good, considering that the DP1 has a resolution of 4.6 MP. But when I found out that the DP1 image was the one on the left, I was amazed! I had no idea that the DP1 could "out-gun" the G1 on detail!

I looked at the images on DBase, and I have these thoughts: Some of the DP1 images show aliasing in the architectural details where the G1 does not, but that's to be expected. One of the G1 images shows chromatic aberrations (in a fence) which the DP1 does not. Also, I think the G1 images are a bit over-exposed. Overall I feel that the DP1 is showing more detail than the G1 is, so this is very encouraging (since I have decided to get the DP1 or DP2). This was just the confirmation I needed to buy a Sigma camera!

Well, I just looked over the images again, and I do think the G1 was at a considerable disadvantage because of the over-exposure. I also noticed that the G1 rendered the license plates on the cars a little more clearly than the DP1 does. But the DP1 comes mighty close! Your comparison of these cameras is very appreciated!

Thank you again!

By the way, I would like to post the URL for your DBase site on the Panasonic forum and ask for their opinions, so please don't remove it

Thanks!

left one has green cast....!!!
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/aguadeloco

a20010494 said:

left one has green cast....!!!

Click to expand...

my DP1 tends to be too magenta often, so I honestly thought that the photo on the right was the DP1....

Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann

i have to confess that i didn't try to correct any color-casts. the original camera white balance was used. i only tried to adjust contrast a bit to match one camera to the other a bit better.

guido, the CAs could result from a misaligned DP-lens. i discovered this quite early but was not sure if the lens was really bad, therefore i shot a side by side comparison with another DP1 and mine was quite a bit softer at the edges, have a look here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1027&message=31066696

these images were still taken with the first DP1, i will be getting a replacement hopefully this week.

We can't be sure that the left image has a green color cast. To me, the sky looks more natural than the image on the right (the sky in the right-hand image looks lavender to me). Also, the stone of the building looks more natural to me. The sculpture on the top of the building might look greenish from being exposed to the weather (if it is made of stone). If the sculpture is bronze or copper, it would look greenish. To me, the image on the left looks more natural. It's possible that both images are off.

I am asking myself how you managed to get the same crop.
The DP1 has 28mm and the G1 Kit 30mm.

I have seen, that your G1 kit lens suffers from some unsymetry issues - could this be the reason ?

Could you please give us the full sized shots ? and do you have a different Lens for the G1 for a "doublecheck" test ?
I just want to make sure if it is the lens or the body making the difference...

Just a few observations: The G1 sensor seems to record a little bit more detail overall but I doubt this would show in a print. Also, the sharpness falloff towards the edges is stronger for the zoom lens on the panny than for the prime lens of the DP1 (this will show in a print).

In some areas, Genuine Fractals does a rather unpleasant job on upsizing, visible for example in the girl's slightly alien-ized face in the first shot. I still use photoshop bicubic for uprezzing - from what I have seen, other uprezzing routines often manage certain aspects/parts of an image very good but just suck too hard on others to make it worthwile.

You might also want to consider turning down the sharpening a bit, particularly on the upscaled ones. However in general, deconvolution sharpening seems to be quite a weapon.

O.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ollivr/
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/ollivr/popular-interesting/
http://seen.by.spiegel.de/ollivr-1

Thanks for the test. My selection was DP1 for the left one also due to colors compared to warmer G1. DP1 might not have the same resolution but it holds the details very good so it looks much sharper in comparison. I printed DP1 photos up to 20"x30"~ 50cmx75cm and looks very good if you don't pixel peep the diagonal lines In good light, it is hard to beat but still I have lx3 for those darker moments where I need a faster lens with IS. G1 will be very good for those moments when they come up with that fast 20mm f/1.7 lens.

Serhan
http://www.pbase.com/sc_20170/

the G1 kit lens is 14mm at the wide end, according to the crop-factor of x2 it ends up as a 28mm lens. so it is just the same equivalent focal length as the DP1.

the difference is that the G1 has a 4/3 format sensor, the DP1 a 2/3 ratio. so one should crop away the upper and bottom parts to have comparable images, but then the absolute FOV will also get smaller. the funny thing is that panasonic corrects the lens distortion in camera, and crops the outer edges slightly too much. if you convert it with a "neutral" converter like raw therapee or dcraw you will get a distorted image. i applied distortion correction directly in raw therapee and this results in a FOV that is still wider than the corrected JPEG. so even after cropping away parts of the image the G1 will have about the same FOV as the DP1.

i cropped some of the images to have more or less the same FOV, therefore the different resulting perspective.

The G1 image is rather noisy at iso100, weird. But both image looks equally good.

But the packaged SPP raw has the advantage of putting lighting to trees and shrub in shadow.