bad news from facebook

pixelman105 · Feb 16, 2009

facebooks new terms & conditions

"You hereby grant Facebook an irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive, transferable, fully paid, worldwide license (with the right to sublicense) to (a) use, copy, publish, stream, store, retain, publicly perform or display, transmit, scan, reformat, modify, edit, frame, translate, excerpt, adapt, create derivative works and distribute (through multiple tiers), any User Content you (i) Post on or in connection with the Facebook Service or the promotion thereof subject only to your privacy settings or (ii) enable a user to Post, including by offering a Share Link on your website and (b) to use your name, likeness and image for any purpose, including commercial or advertising, each of (a) and (b) on or in connection with the Facebook Service or the promotion thereof."

What's been removed is this: "If you choose to remove your User Content, the license granted above will automatically expire, however (sic) you acknowledge that the Company may retain archived copies of your User Content."

so once you put it there they have a right to use it forever - even if you close your account

--
Nikon D200 and a way more glass than any normal person needs

ledittmar · Feb 16, 2009

pixelman105 said:
facebooks new terms & conditions

"You hereby grant Facebook an irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive,
transferable, fully paid, worldwide license (with the right to
sublicense) to (a) use, copy, publish, stream, store, retain,
publicly perform or display, transmit, scan, reformat, modify, edit,
frame, translate, excerpt, adapt, create derivative works and
distribute (through multiple tiers), any User Content you (i) Post on
or in connection with the Facebook Service or the promotion thereof
subject only to your privacy settings or (ii) enable a user to Post,
including by offering a Share Link on your website and (b) to use
your name, likeness and image for any purpose, including commercial
or advertising, each of (a) and (b) on or in connection with the
Facebook Service or the promotion thereof."

What's been removed is this: "If you choose to remove your User
Content, the license granted above will automatically expire, however
(sic) you acknowledge that the Company may retain archived copies of
your User Content."

so once you put it there they have a right to use it forever - even
if you close your account

This is their way of telling you to go away! ....if true!
--

billyboy14 · Feb 16, 2009

My wife, a web marketing professional, just sent me this story, too. A link to the full story:

http://www.marketingvox.com/revised-tos-gives-facebook-perpetual-rights-to-user-content-043200/?utm_campaign=newsletter&utm_source=mv&utm_medium=textlink

The only thing, and I'm no lawyer, that comforts me to a degree is the line:

"subject only to your privacy settings"

Any photos that I have uploaded are only visible to my "friends" per my privacy settings. I am assuming (dangerous, I know), that if Facebook were to use my photos in any way that included viewers outside my "friends" list, it would be in violation of its own terms of use.

Any legal folks want to weigh in?
--
Bill
http://www.shoeflystudios.com

pixelman105 · Feb 16, 2009

are your pictures really only visible to your "friends" I would bet that the people and moderators at facebook can see them - heck I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if in the small print it said that they are your "friends"

Clearly by eliminating the part in their language that made their "rights" expire if you close your account they must think your stuff may have value long after your friends list has been deleted.

billyboy14 said:
My wife, a web marketing professional, just sent me this story, too.
A link to the full story:

http://www.marketingvox.com/revised-tos-gives-facebook-perpetual-rights-to-user-content-043200/?utm_campaign=newsletter&utm_source=mv&utm_medium=textlink

The only thing, and I'm no lawyer, that comforts me to a degree is
the line:

"subject only to your privacy settings"

Any photos that I have uploaded are only visible to my "friends" per
my privacy settings. I am assuming (dangerous, I know), that if
Facebook were to use my photos in any way that included viewers
outside my "friends" list, it would be in violation of its own terms
of use.

Any legal folks want to weigh in?
--
Bill
http://www.shoeflystudios.com

--
Nikon D200 and a way more glass than any normal person needs

Hugh Rea · Feb 16, 2009

--
Hugh Rea:

I don't trust any of those organizations:

I remember at one Time... If you Created
a Yahoo "Club" with interested friends
and post a photo it became there's
when posted...

Buyer Beware and you get what you pay for
... um cost nothing...??

Have another Silicone Moment...

hehehe

Hugh

MDeep · Feb 16, 2009

http://consumerist.com/5154745/facebook-clarifies-terms-of-service-we-do-not-own-your-stuff-forever

http://www.thestandard.com/news/2009/02/16/facebook-we-have-never-claimed-ownership-members-content

--

pixelman105 · Feb 16, 2009

we now have the exact quote from their terms & conditions and thanks to you we have what their owner and executives say.

considering the world today and all of the garbage owners and executives of large corporations have been feeding us these days - - - - who do you trust?

trust us we really don't want what we make you agree to - - we are just doing it for protection

Yea - - I believe you

MDeep said:
http://consumerist.com/5154745/facebook-clarifies-terms-of-service-we-do-not-own-your-stuff-forever

http://www.thestandard.com/news/2009/02/16/facebook-we-have-never-claimed-ownership-members-content

--

--
Nikon D200 and a way more glass than any normal person needs

Doug J · Feb 16, 2009

Interesting, so Facebook's alleged comment is:

"We are not claiming and have never claimed ownership of material that users upload..."

From what I've read, the issue is not ownership of the photos, it's the license that users grant to Facebook, which gives them the rights to do virtually anything forever.

--
Best regards,
Doug
http://www.pbase.com/dougj

GeorgeZ · Feb 16, 2009

Who would want to put his life on display like this anyway? I just don't get these sites.

duckfat · Feb 17, 2009

It's sad - I was just getting into facebook and enjoying keeping in touch with people on there - after an event I'd upload a batch of pics and people I never met would tag themselves within hours. I just deleted my account...

duckfat · Feb 17, 2009

And here's where it gets a bit spooky - I just signed into facebook, new password and all and hey presto - account reactivated! All photo albums restored, friend list etc and so on. So I can't actually close and delete my account, just deactivate it... hmm.

Charlie Self · Feb 17, 2009

GeorgeZ said:
Who would want to put his life on display like this anyway? I just
don't get these sites.

Agreed. What's the point?

--
Charlie Self
http://www.charlieselfonline.com

Doug J · Feb 17, 2009

Sounds like the IRS.... Can you delete or replace your photos?

--
Best regards,
Doug
http://www.pbase.com/dougj

duckfat · Feb 17, 2009

There's no 'Restore deleted Album' buttons or anything like that, but I 'deleted' my whole account... or so I had imagined. No such luck - it was all still there.

Martin Frost · Feb 17, 2009

nt/ thanks for the warning- i just added facebook to the blacklist directory on my pc
--
cheers
Martin F.

3xPanasonicL10 - made with Oly components and I also have Oly=Zuiko lenses; lenses are more important than cameras - I continue posting in Oly SLR talk - this is the 'standard fourthirds forum'.

Typing errors are intended to provide a basis for global amusement.

duckfat · Feb 17, 2009

What's not to get? We've got the internet, digital cameras, and our families and friends are spread all over like never before. Seriously, If I could pay a small subscription and retain control of my own content, I'd happily do it. It's not like they're ever going to make any money out of my content or their adverts but the principle is all wrong - and I don't remember getting release forms signed by most of my subjects - if Facebook did do something with an image I'd posted, I'd be in the wrong with regards the subject's rights... no, no, no!

Mark B. · Feb 17, 2009

GeorgeZ said:
Who would want to put his life on display like this anyway? I just
don't get these sites.

You only 'put on display' what you choose to put on display. Nobody tells you what you must post.

Mark

Mark B. · Feb 17, 2009

I'm honestly not all that concerned about it. There's nothing I'll ever post there that I'd be concerned about Facebook using. Pictures posted ANYWHERE on the internet, be it FB or any of the numerous photo sharing sites aren't safe from being stolen and used w/o your permission - from anyone. Just use common sense.

Mark

BRJR · Feb 17, 2009

1. For, example, what happens to the archived content, here at dpreview or any other online forum or site, that's open to the public (world-wide community),

2. My, understanding is that once anything is on the web, no matter the source, it's out there period; and we all, really sort of loose control of it. For, example, perform a "google search", and you will find that anything you have posted here in dpreview, or elsewhere, including images and your picture, if it's in your signature block — is posted just about every where.

3. IMO, anything someone doesn't want disseminated around the internet ----- should not be posted to the internet,

4. Don't believe me; well, at this very moment simply type your dpreview user name, in quotations, into the "google search space", of your browser (and press or click Enter or return) — for Mac computers, this is at the upper right corner of the desktop,

5. But, on the other hand, how does one expect we have so much data on the internet, in the first place ----- and, does one really want access to data of others but don't want them to have similar use of theirs; and, would not online "search engines" be rendered somewhat useless,

--
BRJR ....(LOL, some of us are quite satisfied as Hobbyists ..)

pixelman105 said:
facebooks new terms & conditions

"You hereby grant Facebook an irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive,
transferable, fully paid, worldwide license (with the right to
sublicense) to (a) use, copy, publish, stream, store, retain,
publicly perform or display, transmit, scan, reformat, modify, edit,
frame, translate, excerpt, adapt, create derivative works and
distribute (through multiple tiers), any User Content you (i) Post on
or in connection with the Facebook Service or the promotion thereof
subject only to your privacy settings or (ii) enable a user to Post,
including by offering a Share Link on your website and (b) to use
your name, likeness and image for any purpose, including commercial
or advertising, each of (a) and (b) on or in connection with the
Facebook Service or the promotion thereof."

What's been removed is this: "If you choose to remove your User
Content, the license granted above will automatically expire, however
(sic) you acknowledge that the Company may retain archived copies of
your User Content."

so once you put it there they have a right to use it forever - even
if you close your account

--
Nikon D200 and a way more glass than any normal person needs

DarienSar · Feb 17, 2009

Doug J said:
Interesting, so Facebook's alleged comment is:

"We are not claiming and have never claimed ownership of material
that users upload..."

From what I've read, the issue is not ownership of the photos, it's
the license that users grant to Facebook, which gives them the rights
to do virtually anything forever.

--
Best regards,
Doug
http://www.pbase.com/dougj

A lot depends on how you want to see it. They need most of the rights described in the terms because when you upload a photo the software will resize it multiple times as it is displayed as a thumbnail on your wall, as a different thumbnail on the Album page, as a notification to your friends who have asked Facebook to notify them any time you add photos, and so on, and so forth.

Another situation: You create a Facebook application called "Photo Contest of the Week" and invite people to install it and participate, sort of like a Photography Club. You do not write legal terms into the app. Your app becomes popular enough that they decide to include in their next ad something like "see how innovative the Facebook platform can be, look at this app, look at these photos." At this point, the owner of the photo might get visions of gold coins falling from the sky, involve his lawyer friend with similar visions, and Facebook is embroiled in long lawsuits that steal management's time (even if they were to win every single case and recover all legal costs).

I believe Facebook's business model is to use your photos to make your friends spend more time in Facebook. They want to sell your time uploading the pohotos and your friends' time looking at them. While all of you are doing all those things, you see those little ads to the side. If the ads are good enough, and I think it is a safe assumption that Facebook staff have confidence in their ability to select the ads (I am not saying whether their confidence is justified or not, let others decide that), then you may even click on one or more ads and allow them to make even more money.

If you think that Facebook is about to change its business model and sell your photos, you have a simple remedy: Do no upload any. If you want someone to blame for the (in my opinion) necessity of such broad terms, blame the litigious society we have become and push your representatives in the direction of legal reform.

All that about the legal terms, which, in summary, I believe to be necessary in the current legal environment.

Now, since we are talking about photos, there is also the fact that Facebook has access to a huge data set, a human-verified data set, consisting of pairs of photos and identifications of people (faces) in those photos. This would be very useful to anyone developing facial recognition software, to train whatever artificial intelligence model lies at the core of that software. This is where fact hands-off the baton to rumour and where the conspiracy theories take wing (and where I have to get back to work).

bad news from facebook

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