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Help, how do I avoid blowing the sky?

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Suzibell

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Went to Gettysburg today, bright but totally over cast. I have yet to learn how to properly adjust my settings for this type of sky. I don't know if this is a white balance issue, an exposure issue, a metering issue etc. I just know I need help as I am tired of getting either blown sky or silhouettes. I shot this over 10 times but never really got one I can be proud of. I am really trying to learn to shoot on manual mode (as apposed to my standard aperture mode)....big learning curve for me.

None of these have had any PP or cropping, these are straight out of the camera.

In the first one, I can see the detail on the statue, but the sky is blown. ISO 400, WB auto, matrix metering, shutter 1/200, Aperture f10, focal length 32mm



In the second and third ones, the sky is ok, but the statue is in silhouette. I can fix the detail part in PP (though I then my blow my sky) but I want to learn to get it correct right out of the camera and not rely on PP to fix it.

ISO 200, WB auto, matrix metering, shutter 1/320, F8, focal length 32mm



ISO 200, WB auto, matrix metering, shutter 1/400, aperture f8, focal length 62mm



Can you help me please?

--
Suz

http://www.flickr.com/photos/81332392@N00/
WSSA member# 262

 
without using flash, or you have to learn how to 'bracket' and 'blend' photos in post-processing, or, work some other magic in post-processing.

There is just too much 'dynamic range' in the kind of image you shot here for the camera to be able to capture (without 'fill flash') without blowing out the sky or having the statue in silhouette.

--
Jim K...just outside Detroit, MI
DeeEighty; DeeFifty; CeeTwentyOneHundred; EffZeeFiveK

http://www.pbase.com/jkorsog
http://motorcityjim.fotopic.net/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/motor_city_jim/
 
My SB 600 will be here any day :)

Question...I was standing fairly far from it. I always thought that flash, even fill flash, was only beneficial within a certain range? no? If I had the SB 600, could I have gotten this shot correct right out of the camera?

Thanks!!!

--
Suz

http://www.flickr.com/photos/81332392@N00/
WSSA member# 262

 
You can "burn in" the sky inpost processing. Sometimes a border aroud the photo encloses the white sky and makes it look ok.
--
Nikon D40 with 18-200 mm Sigma and 10-20 mm Sigma Lenses
 
Suzibell said:
Went to Gettysburg today, bright but totally over cast.
Click to expand...
first off it is hard to get a shot that will look good with this much backlight

first off - use the lowest iso you can - with your D50 that would be ISO200 not 400 - shoot at neutral picture control - you don't want contrast when capturing the shot

here is a similar picture to your middle one - first it could have been a little brighter in the clouds without overexposing



here is a full power flash - off camera



and finally - same shot overexposed but shot in raw - a NEF

and then the highlights and shadows were compressed

 
As others already told you, there is too much dynamic range in the pic to expose both the highlights and the shadows well. Your SB600 will work wonders in these situations(maybe with omnibounce?)You can try in postprocessing with shadows/highlights to get a more even result. Of course making more exposures with different shutterspeeds and going the HDR way is an option, or, if you shot in RAW, you can use a well exposed statue and well exposed sky and "blend" them .
--

 
Ruslicus said:
What about using ND filter. Would it help in this situation?
--
Click to expand...
No. You need to lessen the difference between the dynamic range of the sky and statue. The nd does not change the range.

A flash would brighten the statue but have no effect on the sky therefore lessening the range difference between the two.
 
You could have used a grad.

Or exposed until you lost the blinkies, then post process.

I put your second shot in Photoshop and there isn't a loss of detail in the shadows.

I adjusted the WB then a curves adjustment then brightness and last the blue channel.

It needed more work than this but all the detail was back.

Take your photos using the histogram and you will end up with the best exposure.
--
Regards,

Robert
 
Suz - I just bought a Cokin grad. neutral density filter kit that contains three filters (121s, L and M) plus the holder. I also had to buy a lens adapter also. It was only about $65 and you can do a lot with the Cokin filter. Here is a link to a pdf of the different ND filters they have. They are the real deal when it comes to filters.

http://www.cokin.fr/cokin-data/Brochure/COKIN%20ND%20Chart.pdf

It may not totally solve the problem on the statue, because it sticks up so far into the sky, but it might help. I got the kit here in the USA from 2filters.com as they are a dealer on Cokin. Good luck to you on this - bper
 
The ND filter won't do a thing in this case as the statue is well into the sky, so it will be darkened as well. ND's work wonders in cases the bright part is clearly seperated from the dark one, like a seascape etc.
Regards Alex
 
Trying to come close to the dynamic range of the eye can be tough for a scene like this. The active d-lighting feature of some of the newer cameras might help. Some software is supposed to simulate the feature.

I did an experiment to see if the Retouch menu of my D60 could do anything with pictures taken with my older D50. It can't. Even though I can change the folder setting to see the D50 images, the D60 will only retouch files created in a D60.

One thing that might be helpful in shooting scenes like this could be to go into the Shooting Menu (camera icon) to Optimize Image to Custom to Tone Comp to -2 Low Contrast. That will allow the camera to capture the widest dynamic range. If you like to do software tinkering, you might want to leave it on this setting all the time. Software can narrow dynamic range from the original, but it can't expand it. Without some software post-processing most pictures will look kind of dull shot at the lowest contrast setting.
 
Suzibell said:
Can you help me please?
Click to expand...
Suz,

I quickly(!) messed around with one of your pictures, and as you can see, I have totally exaggerated, but only to emphasize that it is possible to cheat on dynamic range here and there.

As others have already mentioned in this thread, avoid blown highlights, as it may be possible to salvage under-exposed spots in your pictures in PP.

I did this with PhotoImpact using its magic wand and copy/paste, adjusting the gamma value and shadow areas to an extreme extent.

I am sure that a much better result should be possible using greater care and more time.

Your picture:



My version:



Marco
--
http://www.flickr.com/front_curtain
 
Hi,

Without extra light ( flash ) the dynamic range simply is to high for the sensor ( a very bright sky and a dark statue ). So the flash ( fill in ) is the recommended way to go IMO.

Without flash you could use M mode and use spot metering to meter manually on the brightest part in the sky (meter for +2ev) and later on pc open up shadows ( also increasing noise in these parts ).

Also if you shoot RAW there is about 1 extra stop headroom information you can recuperate when post processing on pc.

But you can use matrix metering in a way not mentioned in the Nikon manual anywhere to make an average of 2 meterings , a metering on the place where you lock focus ( statue ) and a secong metering on the brightest part in the sky , this way reducing the risk for a blown out sky.

QUOTE ( with thanks to Dayd3 ) :

Dayd3 wrote:
I explored a little bit more Matrix metering on D80 and found some
tip on the web how to use this metering in a way which is not
mentioned anywhere in Nikon's manual.

We all agree that Matrix Metering try to protect shadows which very
often finishes in blown out highlights if under our focus point is
something darker than middle gray. While sometimes we want such a
behaviour many times we don't. We also know that by default metering
doesn't lock when shutter is half pressed AE LOCK - off (CSM 19).

But what I didn'rt realize before is that MM also takes two metering
and averages them. For example if we focus on someone's face, half
press shutter and than recompose, instead of simply taking a new
reading camera will average the original exposure and the new one.

If we combine this behaviour with a AE-L/AF-L set to AE Lock Hold or
AE Lock Only (CSM 19) we can actually focus where we like by half
pressing shutter button and holding it (camera focuses and takes
first reading) than we point camera for example to the sky and press
AE-L/AF-L button (or press and hold what depends on our settings CSM
18). Than we recompose again and take picture. In this way MM can
average readings from the darkest and lightest subject and prevent
blown out skies.

This is working only in Matrix metering mode and it seems doesn't
work in AF-C mode.

Link to web page where I found this tip:
http://www.nikoncafe.com/vforums/showthread.php?t=95098

UNQUOTE

--
Greetings,
Marc



my photos (under construction):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrbr03/
 
there's room to work with this one, and get a decent photo. This was quick and dirty...there's a lot of artifact in the sky but maybe that's due partially to the file size. I think if you were more careful, you could work that out in the full size file. Basically, I masked the statue, and used levels/curves to bring out the contrast in the sky.

The second one was just messing around. I worked on a portion of the sky some more, converted to monochrome and cropped.





--
Geoff

http://brownie.zenfolio.com/
 
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