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Would calibration help sharpen my photos?

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James Adams

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I seem to get many more out-of-focus shots than I expect, and I wonder if having my camera and lens calibrated by Canon would help rectify this. But I also wonder if the many posts I've read about people who have had their gear calibrated multiple times before they're satisfied is really the result of overly picky photographers who are splitting hairs and/or compulsive about something which is really not the fault of their equipment. Goodness knows I'm no expert photographer and it's certainly possible that my soft photos are the result of my poor technique. How can I tell? If I do determine that there's something off-kilter then how do I go about having Canon fix the problem? Is this an expensive repair?

My camera is a Canon 450D/XSi and my lens is a Canon 24-105mm f/4L.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

--James
--
http://www.pixeljuju.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/buddhafinger/
 
Post samples here. Be sure to include the EXIF shooting information (if you use Photoshop's "Save for web", for example, this information will be stripped out). If you cannot preserve the EXIF data, be sure to include the exposure time, aperture and ISO information with each picture you post.
 
Deanis said:
Mate.... Im in the exact same situation...

450D, 24-105.....unsharp images.

I know this lens is CAPABLE of sharp images, but I'm getting a Sharp
to Unsharp ratio of about 1/50 atm, its ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Yes I'm thinking much the same thing. For the price of this body/lens it should give razor sharp images every time, assuming the light is sufficient and the shutter speed is sufficiently fast.

The thing is I do sometimes get some very sharp images and some nice bokeh from this body/lens, but it's much more hit or miss than I was expecting after dropping almost $2000 on the combo. Maybe I'm expecting too much but my thinking is that for that money you should get a camera system which can at least do its job focusing, freeing you to concentrate on the other aspects of making good photos like composition, subject matter, lighting, etc.

--James
--
http://www.pixeljuju.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/buddhafinger/
 
Check my post on the power of micro adjust. The before shot is after both lens and camera were calibrated, then the next shot is after micro adjust +12 clicks.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=31001213

I have had the following equipment calibrated and always had front focus afterward.

10D
20D
5D
17-40 (+1)
35L (+12)
24-105 (+9)
70-200f2.8IS (+8)
400f5.6 (+1)
500f4 (+12)

The numbers in parenthesis is the number of clicks of micro adjust to get the lens properly adjusted. And this is after the lenses were calibrated at Canon Irvine service.

--
http://www.pbase.com/roserus/root

Ben
 
Ben_Egbert said:
Check my post on the power of micro adjust. The before shot is after
both lens and camera were calibrated, then the next shot is after
micro adjust +12 clicks.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=31001213
Click to expand...
Very interesting. However this in-camera feature doesn't seem to be available to me, since as I stated in my original posting I have a 450D/XSi and checking the manual I don't see any mention of this feature.
Ben_Egbert said:
I have had the following equipment calibrated and always had front
focus afterward.

10D
20D
5D
17-40 (+1)
35L (+12)
24-105 (+9)
70-200f2.8IS (+8)
400f5.6 (+1)
500f4 (+12)

The numbers in parenthesis is the number of clicks of micro adjust to
get the lens properly adjusted. And this is after the lenses were
calibrated at Canon Irvine service.
Click to expand...
So what's the use of having Canon calibrate your lenses if in the end they still come back with focusing problems? If they can't make it right then who can? Am I missing something obvious here?

--James
--
http://www.pixeljuju.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/buddhafinger/
 
James Adams said:
Ben_Egbert said:
Check my post on the power of micro adjust. The before shot is after
both lens and camera were calibrated, then the next shot is after
micro adjust +12 clicks.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=31001213
Click to expand...
Very interesting. However this in-camera feature doesn't seem to be
available to me, since as I stated in my original posting I have a
450D/XSi and checking the manual I don't see any mention of this
feature.
James Adams said:
I have had the following equipment calibrated and always had front
focus afterward.

10D
20D
5D
17-40 (+1)
35L (+12)
24-105 (+9)
70-200f2.8IS (+8)
400f5.6 (+1)
500f4 (+12)

The numbers in parenthesis is the number of clicks of micro adjust to
get the lens properly adjusted. And this is after the lenses were
calibrated at Canon Irvine service.
Click to expand...
So what's the use of having Canon calibrate your lenses if in the end
they still come back with focusing problems? If they can't make it
right then who can? Am I missing something obvious here?
Click to expand...
That was my point, and I was using micro adjust to drive it home.

Here is how it works. The lens and the cameras have factory tolerances. Canon will not divulged how large they are, but they put in + -20 clicks in the micro adjust feature and each click is 1/8 DOF. Two of my lenses are 12/8 or 1-1/4 DOF. off. When they calibrate, all they can be expected to do is meet the factory tolerance which is not perfect.

The way tolerances work is that the lens may front focus and the camera back focuses (or the other way around) thus offsetting the error. Worse case tolerance is about as rare as perfect.

A tolerance analysis is done statistically and the norm will be within roughly + -.7 of worse case. Some people get luckier and may be close to perfect. Some may also claim that the rest of us don't know how to use our cameras.

Anyway, when Canon calibrates a lens or camera, they do it to standards they have in the lab. You could ask them to calibrate the lens to the camera as a matched set. But then it may not work on another camera.
James Adams said:
--James
--
http://www.pixeljuju.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/buddhafinger/
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/roserus/root

Ben
 
I don't know about your camera James, I have at one point owned the lens you're questioning and sold it after too many blurry shots. I didn't want to send it back until both Canon and myself were happy so I sold it. There are many great shots on these forums from it, but I didn't like it.

Eliminate all the variables that you might execute to cause blurry shots, use a tripod, lock up the mirror, put the camera on it's timer, take a shot in good light of a colorful flat, stationary object, like a stop sign etc. Canon told me to line up 3 batteries on the diagonal and focus on the middle one and see how the other two look.
Good luck, you're not alone.
--

 
...big time. I had several copies of this lens and they all sucked big time. That is why i never bought the kit 5d + 24-105.
Unsharp pictures, the lens simply does not justify the price...

Try a different lens like the fantastik plastik 50 mm 1.8 and see if your pictures are still unsharp...
 
It may need calibration, also possible you have a bad copy. Best way to find out is to do as others recommend and deliberately test it. In addition to the field tests that you can try, download a focus chart and take some shots. Some people don't like these but if there is an obvious issue it should show itself.

Don't listen to the neigh sayers telling you that 24-105 sucks. It's far from the truth.
 
Hi all,

I've got a copy of this lens with the 5D and I get... inconsistent results.

To give a little background, I had a 30D and 18-50 sigma f2.8 and then the 17-85 IS. The Sigma - though it had focus problems, seemed to give m consistently sharper results than the 24-105.

I find that the problem is worse when doing rapid portraits/candids. I did a friend's Civil Partnership on Friday and was disappointed by the number of shots that were not perfectly sharp. BUT - they did not seem to be entirely focus related or even camera shake related. I was wondering if it is not an issue with focussing as such, or even the lens but the IS? Not sure if I am talking through my behind but if you take a shot before the IS has settled down is it still moving and indeed INTRODUCING shake???? If so it might be better turning it off? I will need to test this but after Friday's shoot, I am reluctant to take any more until I send it off to Canon.

I will try to post a sample image with exif information if I work out how to do it....!

Cheers,

George
 
Hi again,

With reference to the post above, please see the photo on pbase below.

Although the shutter speed is slowish at 1/60 of a second, the focal length is only aroudn 85mm and IS should have easily dealt with that. It was processed in DPP with a sharpness setting of 2, and then it had a small amount of smart sharpen in PS CS3 with .9 and 30.

Surely it should be sharper than this???

Furthermore, doF should be deep enough for this

http://www.pbase.com/georgemccann/image/109244686/original

Any thoughts? I am going to try this lens without IS for a few days then I will send it off to Canon because I am getting too many of these.

Cheers,

George
 
Looks like the focus missed the subject to me. There are some fairly sharp areas. If she was 2-3m away, the DOF was 15-30cm.
 
geoantmcc said:
Hi again,

With reference to the post above, please see the photo on pbase below.

Although the shutter speed is slowish at 1/60 of a second, the focal
length is only aroudn 85mm and IS should have easily dealt with that.
It was processed in DPP with a sharpness setting of 2, and then it
had a small amount of smart sharpen in PS CS3 with .9 and 30.

Surely it should be sharper than this???

Furthermore, doF should be deep enough for this
Click to expand...
Well, first, if you pixel peep, the Dof is smaller than what you think. The "standard" Coc for a camera like a 5D is 0.03mm. However, if you zoom in to 100%, you "see" the pixels, a pixel on the 5D is 8.2 um (0.008).
The DoF at 85mm at f4 with a Coc of 0.008mm is 3cm !! Tiny.

Now, looking at your sample, the face is clearly out of focus. It looks like the silver jacket shoulder on the left is rather sharp. It simply looks like your optimal focal plane was behind the face.

Regarding exposure. It looks like you used flash here. Flash is very fast, so it will freeze any motion. On the other hand, 1/60 of a second at 85 is not necessarily fast enough to freeze all motion of camera and/or subject.

Can you get motion blur even if you use flash? yes, if the ambient light is close enough to the exposure / aperture setting.

So, if you use flash, you should up aperture and shutter speed so you do not get ghosting from ambient light, i.e. 1/240 and f11.

IS: IS is moving independently from exposure. So, if the IS is adjusting exactly at the moment you take the shot, you can get blur.

Normally, the probability for this is small, since IS should hold the image in average more stable rather than move jerkily.
Now, if you use flash, you won't need IS, due to the short exposure.

If the ambient light is close enough to flash exposure conditions, the IS can help with hand shake, but not subject movement.

So, having said that, the image looks mostly like not properly focused, although a little impact from other parameters (camera shake) cannot be excluded.

check your lens for consistent back-focus if that happens all the time.
geoantmcc said:
http://www.pbase.com/georgemccann/image/109244686/original

Any thoughts? I am going to try this lens without IS for a few days
then I will send it off to Canon because I am getting too many of
these.

Cheers,

George
Click to expand...
--
Life is short, time to zoom in ©
 
Additionally, the "AFMode" recorded in the file is "Off (manual focus)". Is this expected? Zoombrowser shows that the center focus point (on the necklace) achieved focus, but perhaps you focused and recomposed. The necklace is nice and sharp.
 
photonius said:
geoantmcc said:
Hi again,

With reference to the post above, please see the photo on pbase below.

Although the shutter speed is slowish at 1/60 of a second, the focal
length is only aroudn 85mm and IS should have easily dealt with that.
It was processed in DPP with a sharpness setting of 2, and then it
had a small amount of smart sharpen in PS CS3 with .9 and 30.

Surely it should be sharper than this???

Furthermore, doF should be deep enough for this
Click to expand...
Well, first, if you pixel peep, the Dof is smaller than what you
think. The "standard" Coc for a camera like a 5D is 0.03mm. However,
if you zoom in to 100%, you "see" the pixels, a pixel on the 5D is
8.2 um (0.008).
The DoF at 85mm at f4 with a Coc of 0.008mm is 3cm !! Tiny.

Now, looking at your sample, the face is clearly out of focus. It
looks like the silver jacket shoulder on the left is rather sharp. It
simply looks like your optimal focal plane was behind the face.

Regarding exposure. It looks like you used flash here. Flash is very
fast, so it will freeze any motion. On the other hand, 1/60 of a
second at 85 is not necessarily fast enough to freeze all motion of
camera and/or subject.
Can you get motion blur even if you use flash? yes, if the ambient
light is close enough to the exposure / aperture setting.
So, if you use flash, you should up aperture and shutter speed so you
do not get ghosting from ambient light, i.e. 1/240 and f11.
IS: IS is moving independently from exposure. So, if the IS is
adjusting exactly at the moment you take the shot, you can get blur.
Normally, the probability for this is small, since IS should hold the
image in average more stable rather than move jerkily.
Now, if you use flash, you won't need IS, due to the short exposure.
If the ambient light is close enough to flash exposure conditions,
the IS can help with hand shake, but not subject movement.

So, having said that, the image looks mostly like not properly
focused, although a little impact from other parameters (camera
shake) cannot be excluded.

check your lens for consistent back-focus if that happens all the time.
Click to expand...
PS: what focus points, and autofocus mode did you use?
Multiple points could easily focus on the wrong thing here.

As to leaving the camera in AI servo or similar will cause the plane of focus to move around a lot as you "shake" and the camera selects different things.

If the camera is in AI servo or similar, you can expose at any time, even if the subject is not in focus.

Only in single shot will the camera expose when in focus, I think (I am not sure if there are differences between models with this, but I don't think so).
 
Thanks for the replies guys - nice to have a sounding board rather than debating with myself!

The AF mode was in one shot, not AI Servo mode. AF was definitely on and I tend to only use the centre point. I shall see if I can find other examples for you.

Whilst I was out at lunch I remembered that I took a very nice picture of Tower Bridge in London at dusk, on a tripod with no IS and that was lovely and sharp, so I don't think the actual optics are at fault.

I did notice that the left hand side of her wrap/cardigan did seem in focus, but there did not seem to be anything corresponding on the other side.

I do prefer using faster shutter speeds with flash but in this instance was trying to balance flash with the ambient (winter) daylight through the windows.

Cheers,

George
 
Surely lamah is right with a dof of 15-30cm? That would be more consistent with the distance of about 3-4 metres?

I am a little confused photonius about how you arrive at 3cm. I am sure you know more about it than me, but as dof increases with the focus distance I am sure it must be more than that? Sorry if I am not grasping it!

Oh and AF was definitely on!
 
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