DPR - 5Dii review - high ISO comments

Jas H · Feb 13, 2009

Nice and thorough review by DPR. Makes up for the delay IMHO.

A couple of odd scores (eg. build quality and speed vs D700 seem rather too low), but pretty well balanced on the whole.

However, one big question is why did they compare 5Dii and D700 for high ISO using unequal image sizes? They should have resized to match. i.e. 5Dii images would show much less noise when resized to D700 equivalent size.

GaborSch · Feb 13, 2009

Jas H said:
However, one big question is why did they compare 5Dii and D700 for
high ISO using unequal image sizes? They should have resized to
match. i.e. 5Dii images would show much less noise when resized to
D700 equivalent size

Because the 5D2 is A 21 MEGAPIXEL CAMERA, not a 12 mpix. If you want to have a 12 Mpix camera, then buy that!

--
Gabor

http://www.panopeeper.com/panorama/pano.htm

kristian1 · Feb 13, 2009

GaborSch said:
Jas H said:

However, one big question is why did they compare 5Dii and D700 for
high ISO using unequal image sizes? They should have resized to
match. i.e. 5Dii images would show much less noise when resized to
D700 equivalent size

Click to expand...

Because the 5D2 is A 21 MEGAPIXEL CAMERA, not a 12 mpix. If you want
to have a 12 Mpix camera, then buy that!

--
Gabor

http://www.panopeeper.com/panorama/pano.htm

you are not right , if you print for example 36x24 iso 3200 shot than there will be less difference (if any) then it looks on web with 100% crops.

when looking at 100% crops you are looking at two different print size.

blueuser · Feb 13, 2009

To GaborSch

Thats a weird response. Why isn't it valid to compare two FF bodies in allmost the same size and price range and ask what will happen if you resize to the same MP size?

As far as I can see the noise at pixel level is almost the same, with a slight advantage to Nikon but on the same printing size the 5Dm2 will exhibit less noise and more details.
RAW images compared: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos5Dmarkii/page23.asp

liquidstone · Feb 13, 2009

.... in presenting pixel-level crops, as this alllows more flexibility in data comparison.

If I want to equalize, I can easily downres one or upres the other. If Phil presented equalized crops, there's no way one can derive pixel-level comparisons.

Jas H said:
However, one big question is why did they compare 5Dii and D700 for
high ISO using unequal image sizes? They should have resized to
match. i.e. 5Dii images would show much less noise when resized to
D700 equivalent size.

--
Romy

PHILIPPINE WILD BIRDS
Photo Gallery - http://www.pbase.com/liquidstone
HD Bird Videos - http://exposureroom.com/members/RomyOcon.aspx/videos/

(Over 250 species captured in habitat, and counting.)

XeroJay · Feb 13, 2009

Dpreview is also stating that there's no noise advantage to sRAW1... OPEN YOUR EYES!! Take a look at the sRAW1 samples -no, better yet, take them into PS and paste them beside the D700 samples... The sRAW1 IS DEFINITELY CLEANER.
Why say it isn't, when clearly, your demonstrating that it is?

Teosax · Feb 13, 2009

well gabor you can shoot with sraw1 and the 5d2 is a 10 MP camera....
with almost same noise and much more details than d700

GaborSch · Feb 13, 2009

but if you compare that way, then you can't claim at the end, that the 5D2 is "so good camera with 21 Mpix resolution".

People want to have more and more pixels (for whatever reason, it is a secret for me); then that resolution should be compared. Ultimately, the average users are not buying a 5D2 in order to have a 12Mpix camera, are they?

--
Gabor

http://www.panopeeper.com/panorama/pano.htm

Skip M · Feb 13, 2009

I think that they should be compared at their native resolution and size. Then everyone who looks at it knows what they're getting. If you want to blow a D700 image up to 24x36, you should know that it's going to look different from a 5D2 image enlarged to the same size.
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

carlk · Feb 13, 2009

That's a weird argument. Why can't I buy a camera that gives me better resolution when I want the resolution for print large or do more crop and in the mean time also have the option of lower resolution and better noise?

You're argument is like if I buy a Porsche I have to drive it at 150mph all the time or it's no better than a Honda.

GaborSch said:
but if you compare that way, then you can't claim at the end, that
the 5D2 is "so good camera with 21 Mpix resolution".

People want to have more and more pixels (for whatever reason, it is
a secret for me); then that resolution should be compared.
Ultimately, the average users are not buying a 5D2 in order to have a
12Mpix camera, are they?

--
Gabor

http://www.panopeeper.com/panorama/pano.htm

bronxbombers · Feb 13, 2009

GaborSch said:
but if you compare that way, then you can't claim at the end, that
the 5D2 is "so good camera with 21 Mpix resolution".

People want to have more and more pixels (for whatever reason, it is
a secret for me); then that resolution should be compared.
Ultimately, the average users are not buying a 5D2 in order to have a
12Mpix camera, are they?

why not?

you shoot some stuff at ISO100 and want every last one of the 21 MP and shoot some stuff at ISO12,800 and don't care that in the end it looks no better than a results form some 12MP cam, at least you haev the 21mp when you want and can fully take advantage of it and when you print to same size and view at same distance....

bronxbombers · Feb 13, 2009

Jas H said:
Nice and thorough review by DPR. Makes up for the delay IMHO.

A couple of odd scores (eg. build quality and speed vs D700 seem
rather too low), but pretty well balanced on the whole.

not sure why you think the speed score is relatively too low for the 5dmkii, it is only 3.9fps vs as much as 8fps! a huge differnce for action and the shutter lag and mirror blackout and much worse too. You might as well say the D700 has pretty much the same ability to capture detail with its 12MP as the 5dmkii with its 21MP then.

Jas H said:
However, one big question is why did they compare 5Dii and D700 for
high ISO using unequal image sizes? They should have resized to
match. i.e. 5Dii images would show much less noise when resized to
D700 equivalent size.

i think at the raw level the nikon would still be a touch ahead once evrything is taken into account, but it does reduced the gap a good deal comapred to per pixel view, anyway, in the end they did say you won't notice difference in prints.

bronxbombers · Feb 13, 2009

yeah it was pretty weird since i definitely see less when I use it

now maybe if you go buy noise per remaining detail, not so much, but if you just go by look then yeah for sure

XeroJay said:
Dpreview is also stating that there's no noise advantage to sRAW1...
OPEN YOUR EYES!! Take a look at the sRAW1 samples -no, better yet,
take them into PS and paste them beside the D700 samples... The sRAW1
IS DEFINITELY CLEANER.
Why say it isn't, when clearly, your demonstrating that it is?

--

Skip M · Feb 14, 2009

carlk said:
You're argument is like if I buy a Porsche I have to drive it at
150mph all the time or it's no better than a Honda.

The other way of lookng at the down-rez technique is to take that same Porsche and only test it to 100mph, declare it's the same as the Honda and call it a day.

--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

talico · Feb 14, 2009

I don't get posting just the 100% crops either. Is it a valid comparison, no, Does it allow you to see the per pixel noise? Yes. So why not both? It seems like that would be fair. Its no wonder the d700 has lower per pixel noise, big pixels vs small pixels. But on whole If I take a photo with a 50mm lens from both cameras, they will look the same except the 5D MKII will have smaller noise than these comparison would seem to show. In fact I was very impressed in all of the comparisons presented with how well those little pixels compare.

Canon still has the edge in its ability to create sensors. Now if only it had the algorithms that Nikon uses to remove noise they would have an unbeatable camera.

--
Tom

My photos http://www.flickr.com/photos/talicoa/

Taikonaut · Feb 14, 2009

Jas H said:
Nice and thorough review by DPR. Makes up for the delay IMHO.

A couple of odd scores (eg. build quality and speed vs D700 seem
rather too low), but pretty well balanced on the whole.

However, one big question is why did they compare 5Dii and D700 for
high ISO using unequal image sizes? They should have resized to
match. i.e. 5Dii images would show much less noise when resized to
D700 equivalent size.

You know why? It is because the 5DMk2 will show less noise and more details at high ISO than D700 and Dpreview does not want to point this out. They did do this for A900 and resized the 24MP to 12MP and compared it to D700 but that is because the Nikon performed better than the Sony. They dont want to do this with the 5DMk2 because it will show D700 up. Dpreview will try its best to protect Nikon. Just look at their D700 Cons and compare that to their 5DMk2 Cons.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydslra900/page34.asp

carlk · Feb 14, 2009

I would have to suspect Honda has some influence, financial or something else, on the tester if that ever happens. Or the tester is really p'd by Porsche.

Skip M said:
carlk said:

You're argument is like if I buy a Porsche I have to drive it at
150mph all the time or it's no better than a Honda.

Click to expand...

The other way of lookng at the down-rez technique is to take that
same Porsche and only test it to 100mph, declare it's the same as the
Honda and call it a day.

--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

Skip M · Feb 15, 2009

carlk said:
I would have to suspect Honda has some influence, financial or
something else, on the tester if that ever happens. Or the tester is
really p'd by Porsche.

Or works for Consumer Reports! ;-)
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

Per Zangenberg · Feb 15, 2009

Try making some big prints once ;P

GaborSch said:
People want to have more and more pixels (for whatever reason, it is
a secret for me);

wildlife1212 · Feb 15, 2009

Jas H said:
match. i.e. 5Dii images would show much less noise when resized to
D700 equivalent size.

No it doesn't work that way.

Reason is, because the noise on 5D2 is not pixel noise but it's a "group" of noise.
So downsampling will not reduce noise.
http://blog.dpreview.com/editorial/2008/11/downsampling-to.html

Secondly, Imaging Resource has done comparison with D700, including "upsampling" the D700 to the same size of 5D2 giving D700 details match 5D2
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E5D2/E5D2A.HTM

Disappointed because 5D2 is not superior than D700 ???
Don't
Never be
You will not make better pictures with better camera than these 2.

But D700 won hand down for sports and BIF with the 8fp burst rate and Pro AF

(8fp with battery grip, cheapest on ebay)

.

DPR - 5Dii review - high ISO comments

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