From a Nikon shooter: question about the 5D II review

Hello ladies and gents, I normally shoot with Nikon gear for historical reasons but have tons of buddies with Canon gear. So I'm not here to stir anything, or I'll never hear the end of it from them. ;-)

I read the 40 pages of the 5D Mk II review. My conclusion: looks like a fine camera.

There is, however, one thing that raised an eyebrow for me; this listed as a pro:

Quote:

"Continues to write to CF card even when card door is open (finally)"

May I most respectfully ask, just out of sheer curiosity, what kind of situation would have someone shoot with an open card door? Is it common? I could see this as being practical for models where the door opens too easily (e.g. with some Nikon D700s), but not sure about Canon gear.

Would seem that the previous restriction was more of a safety mechanism to guard against inadvertent ejection of the card while buffer was being flushed to card, so I do not understand this change.

Any insight gratefully appreciated. Thanks!

The point is that previous canons would stop writing to the card as soon as the door was opened, loosing what ever pics were in your buffer.

In previous models, if you opened the card door whilst the camera is saving files to the CF card it would only save up to the point the card door is closed. Meaning, once you opened the card door, any files still in the buffer were lost.

Ahhhhhh. I see. Thanks, guys, makes perfect sense now. I certainly agree this is a plus!

Canon needs to work on the next model. Buffer should continue to write to the card after you take the card out.

Come on Canon...get with the program.

Nitewalker said:

In previous models, if you opened the card door whilst the camera is
saving files to the CF card it would only save up to the point the
card door is closed. Meaning, once you opened the card door, any
files still in the buffer were lost.
--

Click to expand...

--
Brown Bag It

But why would one open the card door unless he intended to take out the card? The writing would definitely stop writing if you pulled the card anyhow. The only reason I would ever open the door would be because my card was full, but since I use a large capacity card, that never happens. Dave
--
Visit my gallery at http://www.poperotzy.smugmug.com
There is a link for saving 5.OO on your own Smugmug account.

I've been thinking this all along but this is the first time I'm voicing it... He was horribly fixated on the fact that if you opened the card door while it was writing (on almost all canon cameras except the newest) that it would stop writing.

Frankly I thought it was nonsensical. If someone (namely him) is dumb enough to open the door while its writing then someone (again him) is probably also stupid enough to pull the card out while its writing.

I don't mind canon changing how they do this, but I HATE the fact that he harped on it so long that they did it. I would MUCH rather they focused on other things than that. They have finite resources after all... For example. Suppose we could have gotten full aperture and iso control in video mode... but instead decided they really needed to shut him up. Ah... the tyranny of the 4th estate.

Personally I'd tend more towards shutting down the write as soon as the door opens. You know why? Well it can GRACEFULLY stop writing the file its working on at that point well before the user is physically capable of pulling the card out. I mean. just imagine pulling the sata/ide cables off your hard drive while your computer is in the middle of writing. Who the heck DOES that? Thats just asking for filesystem corruption.

to open the door by mistake when you are rushed. It causes no harm to have the camera keep writing while the door is open. From a design standpoint there is no reason not to do it and its been one of those silly little things I'm happy is finally 'fixed'.

I agree. Using D60, 20D, 5D and D700 I've NEVER come close to opening CF door if buffer was working. Intentionally or not. How would this ever be a problem except for the most clumsy and/or scatter-brained.

xilvar said:

I've been thinking this all along but this is the first time I'm
voicing it... He was horribly fixated on the fact that if you opened
the card door while it was writing (on almost all canon cameras
except the newest) that it would stop writing.

Frankly I thought it was nonsensical. If someone (namely him) is dumb
enough to open the door while its writing then someone (again him) is
probably also stupid enough to pull the card out while its writing.

I don't mind canon changing how they do this, but I HATE the fact
that he harped on it so long that they did it. I would MUCH rather
they focused on other things than that. They have finite resources
after all... For example. Suppose we could have gotten full aperture
and iso control in video mode... but instead decided they really
needed to shut him up. Ah... the tyranny of the 4th estate.

Personally I'd tend more towards shutting down the write as soon as
the door opens. You know why? Well it can GRACEFULLY stop writing the
file its working on at that point well before the user is physically
capable of pulling the card out. I mean. just imagine pulling the
sata/ide cables off your hard drive while your computer is in the
middle of writing. Who the heck DOES that? Thats just asking for
filesystem corruption.

Click to expand...

--
Brown Bag It

It used to be, Canon cameras would finish writing the current file and then flush the buffer allowing the card to be removed safely. Basically, Canon engeineers (rightly) assumed the photographers were smart and if they opened the back while the bright LED next to the switch was on, it was BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO REMOVE THE CARD!!!.

Mostly (I think) thanks to Phil's multi paragraph rants about not continuing to write the unflushed buffer images out to the card with lots of warning telling the idiot users to wait, the idiots would loose important images.

Problem is, if I open the CF card door while it is writing, it is because I REALLY NEED TO REMOVE THE CARD NOW!!!!! Not in a few 10's to 20's of seconds when the event I want to take will be happening. It was also useful for simply flushing the buffer when you filled it up (remember, CF cards have gotten faster and a buffer flush might have taken a minute or so) and you see some new action starting to happen.

Now thanks to Phil's incessant whining, we have a design where I have to weigh the odds of messing up the entire card because it is in the middle of a write and won't start when I open the CF card door and need to remove the card when the buffer is full or the card is full and I need/want an empty card.

It is one of my few real complaints on the 40D and 5D Mk II.

Steven

--
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Winter 2009:
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/images_winter_2009

2007 Paria Plateau
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/images_spring_2007

Allowing you to replace the nearly full card with a new card. Or simply flush the buffer.

The new design is idiotic.

Steven

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Winter 2009:
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/images_winter_2009

2007 Paria Plateau
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/images_spring_2007

If you open the CF card door, it is because you are going to remove the CF card. It is that simple. Opening the thing accidentally (even when rushed) is, at best, a straw man argument.

Now, when you want to remove the card (or simply flush the buffer), YOU CAN'T DO IT SAFELY!!!!

The new design is very very poor. When I open the CF card door, STOP WRITTING TO THE DARN CARD!!!.

How about this, stop writing the card and if I close the CF card without changing cards, then continue. If the card goes out, flush the buffer. Now that would have been a decent design but what they have now is a giant step backwards.

Steven

--
---
Winter 2009:
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/images_winter_2009

2007 Paria Plateau
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/images_spring_2007

Steven Noyes said:

Now thanks to Phil's incessant whining, we have a design where I have
to weigh the odds of messing up the entire card because it is in the
middle of a write and won't start when I open the CF card door and
need to remove the card when the buffer is full or the card is full
and I need/want an empty card.

It is one of my few real complaints on the 40D and 5D Mk II.

Click to expand...

With the old design, the writing ends as soon as you open the door, lessening the chance that a write is finished, if you do in fact, open the door and pull the card out without checking to see if the writing is complete.

What was the problem again?

--
John

John Sheehy said:

With the old design, the writing ends as soon as you open the door,
lessening the chance that a write is finished, if you do in fact,
open the door and pull the card out without checking to see if the
writing is complete.

Click to expand...

No matter how quickly you pull the card out after opening the door, there is an increased chance a file will finish writing before you pull the card with the new scheme. Why worsen that chance for absolutely no reason?

--
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Hunter S. Thompson.

mchahn said:

John Sheehy said:

With the old design, the writing ends as soon as you open the door,
lessening the chance that a write is finished, if you do in fact,
open the door and pull the card out without checking to see if the
writing is complete.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

mchahn said:

No matter how quickly you pull the card out after opening the door,
there is an increased chance a file will finish writing before you
pull the card with the new scheme. Why worsen that chance for
absolutely no reason?

Click to expand...

You are agreeing with me technically, but your demeanor suggests disagreement, so I do not understand your reply.

--
John

DPR reviewer have been complaining about that "camera stop writing to CF when door open"issue for year, it's also one of the issue I never understand, to me it sounds like someone pull out the USB flash while saving some file or pull the plug then say, damn, the the system didn't save my file......

--
'The majesticness of that duck is overwhelming!' - Bulbol

Dan_168 said:

DPR reviewer have been complaining about that "camera stop writing to
CF when door open"issue for year, it's also one of the issue I never
understand, to me it sounds like someone pull out the USB flash while
saving some file or pull the plug then say, damn, the the system
didn't save my file......

Click to expand...

Or maybe like someone needing to change cards fast, and the little bit of time saved switching cards being of value.

--
John

They broke a perfectly good design.

Steven

John Sheehy said:

With the old design, the writing ends as soon as you open the door,
lessening the chance that a write is finished, if you do in fact,
open the door and pull the card out without checking to see if the
writing is complete.

What was the problem again?

--
John

Click to expand...

--
---
Winter 2009:
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/images_winter_2009

2007 Paria Plateau
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/images_spring_2007

I've noticed the 'open door while writing' obsession for years, and I really think it is a non-issue. I just chalked it up to British idiosyncrasy. You know, the British can get a little bit fussy about trivial things now and then.

Just like their penchant for (men) wearing women's undergarments, just accept it and move along . . .



Kevin (50% Brit, not currently wearing any lingerie)

Hocus Pocus said:

Hello ladies and gents, I normally shoot with Nikon gear for
historical reasons but have tons of buddies with Canon gear. So I'm
not here to stir anything, or I'll never hear the end of it from
them. ;-)

I read the 40 pages of the 5D Mk II review. My conclusion: looks like
a fine camera.

There is, however, one thing that raised an eyebrow for me; this
listed as a pro:

Quote:

"Continues to write to CF card even when card door is open (finally)"

May I most respectfully ask, just out of sheer curiosity, what kind
of situation would have someone shoot with an open card door? Is it
common? I could see this as being practical for models where the door
opens too easily (e.g. with some Nikon D700s), but not sure about
Canon gear.

Would seem that the previous restriction was more of a safety
mechanism to guard against inadvertent ejection of the card while
buffer was being flushed to card, so I do not understand this change.

Any insight gratefully appreciated. Thanks!

Click to expand...