SX1 IS: Zoom & Video

Hi there.
I have read many messages, but I want to know it better:

• are the video with SX 1 IS good?
• is it possible to zoom while video recording? (my 6 y.o. camera can't)

Thank you

Andrea

andmaste said:

Hi there.
I have read many messages, but I want to know it better:

• are the video with SX 1 IS good?
• is it possible to zoom while video recording? (my 6 y.o. camera can't)

Click to expand...

1) I've seen good (HD) videos and some not so good ... but it has to do mostly with the site where the videos are downloaded and the compression used (as well as the user of the cam)... the Disney videos I saw on Vimeo were plenty good enough for me to order the SX1.

2) Yes full 20x optical zoom is possible w/stereo sound/wind filter and the ability to snap a photo during the video ... the Canon 'S' series cams can now do -almost- anything.

andmaste said:

Thank you

Andrea

Click to expand...

... the Canon 'S'

Photofreak7 said:

series cams can now do -almost- anything.

Click to expand...

Not in the US they don't! Until Canon gets the US the SX1 I will be buying Panasonic cameras. I think the Canon cameras shoot better pictures but the US Canon cameras are just too far behind the times in video. Well except for the 5D MKII. That is a fantastic camera at a stupid price.

Having a hard time finding reviews. I know this camera isn't sold in the US. If bought outside the country, is the warranty invalid?
What are the negatives to buying a camera with a CMOS?
--



Monica (UZi x2) (Canon S3)
http://www.pbase.com/monicakm

I have bought 2 sx1's and both have been returned, why;

The sx1 video is only good in good light and the slow lens is not "optimised" for video, look at most video cams and you will see fast video f2.2-f3.5 video lenses. The issue with a slow lense and cmos is two-fold

1)cmos rolling shutter causes the image to look as if it is like jelly at long focal lengths and slow-shutter speeds

2)the slow lens means you are forced into slow shutter speeds which in full daily light is OK'ish but it is still noticeable both as slow af and hunting, low light goes into melt-down as the sensor tries to ramp the iso, max iso400 to minimise noise, and then the image goes darker because the sensitivity is just not there.

Image wise the sx1 is not a great performer, I tried to live with its colours but every phote needs pp'ong nothing out of the camera is good, and above iso200 its very blotchy with horrible artifacts, either sharpening or noise.

If you like the sx1 great, but for the more discerning buyer beware, maybe the new panasonic tz5 will be a more compact option for most! at the moment knowbody really offers a quality hybrid that ticks boxes at both video and stills.

CMOS causes more problems than it solves but if we are forced to use cmos for video, make sure you go for a fast lense, fast shutters will minimise the wobbles imo.

Monicakm said:

Having a hard time finding reviews. I know this camera isn't sold in
the US. If bought outside the country, is the warranty invalid?
What are the negatives to buying a camera with a CMOS?

Click to expand...

Well the Australian buyer I got mine from assures me that -if- I have any warranty issues that I can send the camera back to him and he will take it to Canon and have it repaired (in AU)

... as far as the CMOS goes: IQ wise from the reviews I've seen the SX1's pics are right there with the SX10's -but- the CMOS allows for 4fps burst mode, HD video (but with the 'jello' issue) and overall faster operation - so no real negatives that I can see. If you can hold off on ordering for a couple days I'll have mine and will let you know just how it is (although tameside does have some valid points)

• Matt

Monicakm said:

--



Monica (UZi x2) (Canon S3)
http://www.pbase.com/monicakm

Click to expand...

I've heard of the 'jello' issue in videos (and seen it) -but- is it only in HD when zoomed out in less than good light or does it also show up in the 640x480 mode? I ask because if it does have to do with the lens as you infer then the SX10 should have the same issue. Unless it's the CMOS itself then only SX1's should be affected... Matt

tameside said:

I have bought 2 sx1's and both have been returned, why;

The sx1 video is only good in good light and the slow lens is not
"optimised" for video, look at most video cams and you will see fast
video f2.2-f3.5 video lenses. The issue with a slow lense and cmos is
two-fold
1)cmos rolling shutter causes the image to look as if it is like
jelly at long focal lengths and slow-shutter speeds
2)the slow lens means you are forced into slow shutter speeds which
in full daily light is OK'ish but it is still noticeable both as slow
af and hunting, low light goes into melt-down as the sensor tries to
ramp the iso, max iso400 to minimise noise, and then the image goes
darker because the sensitivity is just not there.

Image wise the sx1 is not a great performer, I tried to live with its
colours but every phote needs pp'ong nothing out of the camera is
good, and above iso200 its very blotchy with horrible artifacts,
either sharpening or noise.

If you like the sx1 great, but for the more discerning buyer beware,
maybe the new panasonic tz5 will be a more compact option for most!
at the moment knowbody really offers a quality hybrid that ticks
boxes at both video and stills.

CMOS causes more problems than it solves but if we are forced to use
cmos for video, make sure you go for a fast lense, fast shutters will
minimise the wobbles imo.

Click to expand...

You see the "Jello" effect only if you look for it... I've not seen it anywhere in my recorded videos, so far.. but thats simply because I'm not shaking the cam "wildly" while recording.. . (and I can't see in which circumstances I would want to do that either...) It's NOT perfect as a videorecorder (inside hifef videos in dark light are noisy, but I did not expect this "all in one" solution to give me perfect results in every diciplin... It performs overall better than I dared to excpect!

IMHO it's the best compromise out there.. to me it gives me LOOOONG range, good IQ and also great Highdef VQ.. (if used properly! its not perfect!)

Norwegian Canon Powershot SX1 user

tameside, surprising to say the least ... 2 and returned both ?
Why buying another SX1 if the first did not satisfy your desires ?

I was so determined to get one until I read your (earlier) review of it as well as seeing some awfull SX1 video samples on vimeo (blown highligts, color-less).
Thank you for warning me about it's drawbacks.

The form factor and specs are so inviting, but if IQ (both video as well as stills!) is really as you write then all this does not matter ... I definitely have to take this SX1 off MY Shortlist.

But I have to ask ... did you try setting ISO yourself/manual ... this seems to be the major problem (or so I read here): auto-exposure blows highlights in the most awfull sense. If you can get around this flaw, wouldn't that take away 80% of your reasoning ?

[The D-Lux 4 I got instead has it's own problems like short zoom and being very small, but IQ/DR sure proves really great].

I desperately wanted to love the sx1, but I tried everything but it doesnt feel responsive after a week it started to feel sluggish. I dont know if its the dreary weather all the time, dark days and nights but you needed to up the iso all the time, then the ugly artifacts crept in. The video had files so huge it filled 16gb sd cards like they were 1gb cards, and the low light video was poor imo, in fact you can only use the camera upto 50mm in low light, forget zooming its sluggish and everything seems dim due to max iso400. Stills during video are also poor iq.

The jello is a real problem in video, the is is excellent but overall before you know it your at f5.6 and things are getting slow and focus is hunting.

Honestly, I wanted the camera to work for me but I couldnt, in the end I have decided to forget compacts/bridge, so far I have bought;

2x sx1's
1x casio f1(the best of the bunch but no is lense, otherwise best hybrid yet)
1x casio fh20(the second best, just)
1xkodak z1012(great video, small file sizes for hd but ccd smear is a problem)
1xkodak z1015(great video mono sound, poor build, ccd smear)
1x sanyo hd1000 (best video, some cmos wobble, no is)

1x canon tx1(ccd smear unbearable in bright video, hence I avoid ccd's as much as possible for purple smear)

I am sticking with dslr(a350) and adding a hd camcorder, had enough of all these hybrids.

Thanks tameside. Very informative post of someone who at least has had some cameras to really compare this SX1 against (I do not have that luxury).

I also wanted to like the SX1 so muc, and maybe I (personally) still would, but reading this I will simply stick to my D-Lux 4 for the time being and wait for PMA.

[In my country I can't return a camera I don't like, that why I am asking about it in advance]

If the G HD is not available I will also go for a dedicated video camera (again).

I most probably expected too much ... a true near perfect hybrid might not have surfaced yet, but I believe -seeing the SX1 specs already- that if anyone (besides Panasonic - G HD ?) can pull it off, it may be Canon.

you should buy less cameras and try to make more good pictures )))

a 350 solves no problem

--

Canon SX1 - http://forums.steves-digicams.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=600047&forum_id=15&page=1

All very strange.

I've taken dozens of HD videos with my SX1 and have never noticed any jello. Must admit I'me struggling to imagine what jello looks like on a video.

Admittedly I've only used mine in good light, but maximum zoom and lots of panning covering a one day cricket match from the members' at the MCG. And for those that don't know the players are a long way from you.

I've played the videos on my 50' HD Pioneer and they look fantastic, a number of my tech-head friends were amazed when I told them what camera it was.

And as far as being surprised that HD video chews up storage, what do you expect?? On some of the ones I've done it looks like 3mins = 1G. That's 48 minutes on a 16G card. At the prices of cards today - who cares?

Anyway, just my opinion, but still looking forward to seeing the jello. And I assume that jello is what we call jelly in Australia.

regards

I've same to say: no rolling shutter/jello, all okay. Best pictures, best videos.
Using 16 GB Transcend Class6 for 26 €

--

Canon SX1 - http://forums.steves-digicams.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=600047&forum_id=15&page=1

stefaan said:

tameside, surprising to say the least ... 2 and returned both ?
Why buying another SX1 if the first did not satisfy your desires ?
I was so determined to get one until I read your (earlier) review of
it as well as seeing some awfull SX1 video samples on vimeo (blown
highligts, color-less).
Thank you for warning me about it's drawbacks.
The form factor and specs are so inviting, but if IQ (both video as
well as stills!) is really as you write then all this does not matter
... I definitely have to take this SX1 off MY Shortlist.
But I have to ask ... did you try setting ISO yourself/manual ...
this seems to be the major problem (or so I read here): auto-exposure
blows highlights in the most awfull sense. If you can get around this
flaw, wouldn't that take away 80% of your reasoning ?
[The D-Lux 4 I got instead has it's own problems like short zoom and
being very small, but IQ/DR sure proves really great].
--

Click to expand...

Stefaan,

I personally had to wait a long time before receiving my new SX1 last week Thursday and also became very confused by the many conflicting reviews and feedback by new users regarding the image quality and video quality of the SX1...

My first experimental pictures and video results were really a BIG disappointment even though I reminded myself to be objective and not to put my expectations too high! Well it turned out that although I should have known better I did do a number of things wrong... especial using auto in overcast rainy weather!!

Some background on myself:

I used a Sony F707 for photos and a Sony PC100 for video before buying the Canon SX1 which I hoped to be the bridging solution to replace both. I spend a fair amount of time trying to keep up to date on the latest happenings and changes within the digital photography world...

Video Performance:

I initially used a 1GB class 2 SD card resulting in me only being able to take short clips which looked bad when I played it back on my work laptop. The following day I used a 4GB Class 6 SDHC card and shot long video clips of my son and a friend in the swimming pool in full sunlight and played back the results on my MacPro.... What a delight!! The video quality was way beyond what I even hoped for and silky smooth in playback on the Mac

Once I loaded the right codec on my HP notebook (Windows XP Pro) I got smooth playback as well although Nero Showtime 3 produced excellent playback since it is using its own internal codec's ...

Low light video did produce noise but much less than my Sony PC100 and way better than I expected from such a small CMOS chip.

My one regret is that although you can take pictures while shooting video - the video footage itself pauses for a second or two before it continues by jumping to the current scene (i.e. skipping 1-2 sec of footage). I might be that it is due to some preference / setting as I haven't had much time to explore the fairly extensive number of different settings...

Picture Quality:

As mentioned already by many others SX1 owners - pictures taken beyond ISO 200 (maybe in some cases up to ISO 400) exhibit soft, ugly, grainy artifacts when pixel-perving at 100% or more zoom levels... However when I played back the unmodified pictures (taken in both sunlight and low light) on my 42” LCD TV I was blown away with the results – it looked crisp and vibrant with colour with no visible purple fringing or artifacts!! Even the low light photos looked more than acceptable.

Sure – once you’re used to D-SLR quality on APS-C or Full frame size sensors anything on a Digicam will disappoint – more so when zooming in on your computer and doing lab test results ...!! Just remember those cameras (D-SLR types) use sensors that is 10 to 15 times bigger thus reducing the pixel density which is mostly responsible for the low light performance and purple fringing on contrast areas. Canon could have given us the option to capture (space consuming) RAW photos to help combat some of these artifacts and soft looking low light photos through better post processing!!

My options came down to the SX1 (approx $700) versus Canon 5D mark2 (approx $4,000 with additional lenses and other gear). Obviously the 5D2 produces far superior pictures (Full Frame with 2.4 MP/cm² pixel density) compared to the SX1 (1/2.3” CMOS with 35 MP/cm² pixel density) but it will cost almost 5-8 times more and you’ll carry a rug sac full of equipment to capture those superior quality pictures... still if I could justify the money I would not have thought twice about buying the 5Dmk2 but decided that the SX1 will have to do for now since I mainly plan to use it for taking sport photos and videos of my kids and the occasional wildlife pictures during holidays!

Conclusion:

Once I got out of the very critical lab type investigation on the photos and started focusing on taking good looking pictures by being aware of its limitations and compensating for this by using the more advanced functions of the SX1 I got to the point where I now happily leave my video camera and previous Sony digicam at home! I really think the SX1 is excellent VALUE for MONEY and presents the best bridging solution in the sub $1,000 market today.

I am hoping for a Canon 60D with HD video next year though ...

Regards
Andre
--
Whatever you focus on will expand - choose wisely!

Thank you all so much for your evaluation of the SX1 !

It's not making things easier, because depending on expectations this camera seems either a gem or a miss.

Best thing to do is wait for PMA I guess and hope someone does it all right bringing out the near-perfect hybrid.

It's not hard to imagine what the specs for such a cam should be, but it will probably not be made soon because return might not justify the cost of development, production and distribution (too few customers for such a -probably expensive -device).

The G HD is (like Canon SX1) is promising to be the ultimate all-in-one ... let's hope they can deliver (and in time for our/my needs).

Knallbert,

for you maybe the a350 solves nothing, for me it solves alot;

dslr creativity, no small sensor camea really has the creativity of a dslr, lets not even go there

resolution, the 14mp sesnor aps-c is large and probably offers the best resolution outside of full frame of any real-world prosumer dslr.

live view that surpasses even a compact p&S for flexibility and still retains accuracy and speed of dslr, again nothing touches it not even a g1 from pana!
Same size as the canon sx1??

with 2 lenses +kit lense(from my 5d), f2.8 17-35/70-210f3.5-4.5 and a 2x tele I can cover just about anything from 25-615mm with af speed of dslr. All lenses are compact and I can hand-hold 615mm optical equivalent at f9 as low as 1/50 sec, outdoors this is generally fine. With just the 210 and using the a350 smart tele for extra 1.4 zoom(8mpix/crop basically) I get an 8mpix stills option at 450mm and with my 2x tele a 1000mm dslr lense, albeit at 8mpix. I also have a 28-300mm tamron walk-around lense if I am not shooting anything specific, again if I pop the 17-35f2.8(400g) in my bag I have just 2 lenses and can cover just about anything from 25mm all the way to 630mm optical! now that is flexibility!

I will either add the panasonic sd20 or the sanyo hd2000, depending on which is best for video, am expecting the is of the sd20 to outperform the hd2000 but the lowlight may still be an issue. the sd20 also has a 24p option but both are cmos, currently cmos is the only option for video but they are both coupled with super fast lenses and designed for taking video, unlike the sx1.

For me this will work and I would encourage anybody to see this video of the sx1 in action and tell me this is natural!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvgBH3LuXBA

tameside, the SD20 is not top-of-range like the TM300.
Low light will be an issue for sure (don't think that will better the SX1).

I was thinking of the TM300 myself, but have quite some experience with dedicated camcorder's still picture abilities ... mediocre at best !

Maybe, just maybe the new 209 high end Canon and Panasonics may change that, but at what price point ?

I'm still hoping for the Panasonic G HD, but as things look now it won't be 1st half of 2009 !

BTW, the video clip you linked to does not surprise me. The way the SX1 works it would have been sufficient in this case to lock exposure and focus to have great video. I fear that even my dedicated camera's (former) GS500 and my friend's SR11 would have a hard time doing much better under those circumstances.

Maybe but lamposts dont bend on those camcorders! for me noise in video is not as much of an issue as bending objects such as posts/trees lampost, nearly every vertical object on the sx1 has a life of its own, I can't bare it.

They actually bend forward/hows that for weird?

The wobble is bad indeed, bud can be avoided to some extent, depending on what you shoot.
Low light is also a problem because there is no 'video flash' on consumer cams.

IF the G HD comes out (Panasonic is laying off people) it MIGHT be the ultimate solution ... however I have hoped for a true hybrid so many times before ... in vain.