Canon 50mm 1.4 vs. Sigma 50mm 1.4

rsn48 said:

http://www.lensrentals.com/news/2008.12.22/this-lens-is-soft-and-other-myths

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An excellent lens lasts a lifetime, an excellent DSLR, not so long.

Click to expand...

interesting reading, tnx for that link.

The 64 K$ question is of course what the tolerances are that the manufacturers use for producing bodies and lenses. In theory, a company like Canon could be expected to calibrate in such a way, that a lens that has the max tolerance to one side, will still focus properly on a body that is also at the max tolerance.

Could it be that Sigma lacks the exact knowlegde of Canon body tolerances?? That might explain a higher number of misfocussing body-lens combinations. Or is it just that the enthousiast user community as present on these forums have a tendecny to distrust Sigma, based on all the postings about focusing problems? Probably a bit of both if you ask me...

As for focus accuracy, if I remember correctly, Canon defines this as a certain max value before/after the focus point, expressed in terms of DOF (based on actual FL/f-stop/distance), where the accuray is higher when =

As for me, I have Sigma 30 1.4 which I have never 'tested', I just use it to shoot things I like. And I am pretty sure many of my non-sharp shots are due to user error rather than lens error. And let's face it, the fun of a 1.4 lens is to shoot at available light, which means one is easily inclined to push the limit...which makes you realize that a flash can be a viable alternative ;> )

Nevertheless, I feel a bit tempted to shoot a few pics of a focus chart, just out of curiosity. And while I am at thast, I might as well include a piece of brick wall. I am entitled to that brick wall, considering the amount of morgage I pay every month...

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cheers,

****

The euro prices have certainly risen a lot, at least here in Finland. Some lenses got several hundred euros more expensive.

However, the problem is that nothing is in stock. I could order the Canon 50mm f/1.4 from here Helsinki for 329 €, but they estimate 3 to 6 weeks for availability. And usually the estimates do not have anything to do with the real world. They estimated early October for the 5D Mark II, and they still have nothing (even the first preorderers haven't gotten their kits yet).

I currently have an order waiting in England. So far I have waited five weeks for my 17-40mm f/4 L, BG-E6 battery grip and 5D Mark II kit, among other things. Last time I called them (Warehouse Express) they could not give any esimate on when any of the items become available. Here in Finland they estimate mid-March for the next 5D camera shipment.

I was hoping to get some nice winter shots with the new camera, but thanks to Canon, that plan is now completely ruined.

And the shipping is usually outrageously expensive inside the Euro-zone, too. For example, Warehouse Express charges a whopping £60. Again, most companies do not want to ship abroad, and often do not even answer to enquiries. No wonder the economy is going down -- and serves them right for treating customers like this. It's now been five months since the announcement of 5D II.

Jari Karppanen said:

The euro prices have certainly risen a lot, at least here in Finland.
Some lenses got several hundred euros more expensive.

However, the problem is that nothing is in stock. I could order the
Canon 50mm f/1.4 from here Helsinki for 329 €, but they estimate 3 to
6 weeks for availability. And usually the estimates do not have
anything to do with the real world. They estimated early October for
the 5D Mark II, and they still have nothing (even the first
preorderers haven't gotten their kits yet).

I currently have an order waiting in England. So far I have waited
five weeks for my 17-40mm f/4 L, BG-E6 battery grip and 5D Mark II
kit, among other things. Last time I called them (Warehouse Express)
they could not give any esimate on when any of the items become
available. Here in Finland they estimate mid-March for the next 5D
camera shipment.

I was hoping to get some nice winter shots with the new camera, but
thanks to Canon, that plan is now completely ruined.

And the shipping is usually outrageously expensive inside the
Euro-zone, too. For example, Warehouse Express charges a whopping
£60. Again, most companies do not want to ship abroad, and often do
not even answer to enquiries. No wonder the economy is going down --
and serves them right for treating customers like this. It's now been
five months since the announcement of 5D II.

Click to expand...

I agree that the lack of reliable delivery estimates are a pain, but I wonder who is to blame; I suspect Canon rather than the shops (who just pass on the info they get from Canon).

I wonder why prices have risen so much in Finalnd, I usually check kamera-express.nl or the german shops (through idealo.de, a price comparison site) and haven't noticed significant changes. But surely, with the recent fluctuations in exchange rates, changes are inevitable.

As for shipping costs, I noticed that UK shops charge quite a bit more then their continental colleagues. When you pay a german shop by bank transfer, you pay something like 10 euro p&p. In general, the german shops have a more international sales approach than the english ones, who often seem to lag behind. Oh splendid isolation....

Out of curiosity, how much do you have to pay for the 5d2? Best price I found so far is 2800 euro for the 24-105 kit.

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cheers,

****

Do NOT test your lens ****. If you enjoy it as is then why ruin it with some shots of a focus-chart... I started doing that when I got the first sample of the Sigma 50 1.4 and I am screwed for life. After that I tested every lens I have and performed some micro-focus adjustments here and there. I should have just continued taking pictures like you...

For your info: I ordered the Sigma at Cameranu.nl and received 2 copies that I both returned because of focus-issues. They did not complain about that at all and immediately sent me a brand new copy. They even now sent me a 3rd copy just to be sure! Got it today so I will be doing some nerd-focus-chart-testing tonight again...

C ya!
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In the right light, at the right time, everything is extraordinary. Aaron Rose

Yes, definately it's Canon's fault. The shop complained that the queues are getting longer because Canon cannot deliver enough stuff to keep up with incoming orders. To me this kind of thing does not sound anything like a recession. I wonder if the recent price hikes have stabilized the situation at all (Camera stuff is no longer cheap in UK, at least from my euro-perspective).

Some shops still have old inventory and I think that's why there are so big differences in prices between places. And of course some shops decided to rise the prices even though their inventori was bought in with the lower prices. These are also usually the places that have 5D Mark II in stock -- they always charge the most.

I haven't paid actually anything yet, but the ordering price was 2499 UK pounds (still the same), which has fluctuated between 2580 and 2850 euros during my waiting. After I placed my order the price in euros has gone up about 200 euros, if you calculate with todays exchange rate, standing now at 2780 euros.

Unfortunately Warehouse Express refuses to charge the payment until they have the items in stock. I also ordered a 50mm f/1.4 from them, and they expect to get them early March(!).

Where did you find that 2800 € price? Do they happen to have the kit in stock?

Thanks, SteveHild.

I have exactly the same problem with my lens: inconsistent focus when wide open. I will try to send it for calibration. Hope this will help.

Jari Karppanen said:

I haven't paid actually anything yet, but the ordering price was 2499
UK pounds (still the same), which has fluctuated between 2580 and
2850 euros during my waiting. After I placed my order the price in
euros has gone up about 200 euros, if you calculate with todays
exchange rate, standing now at 2780 euros.

Click to expand...

Jari Karppanen said:

Where did you find that 2800 € price? Do they happen to have the kit
in stock?

Click to expand...

Hi Jari,

I checked here http://www.idealo.de/preisvergleich/OffersOfProduct/1169959_-eos-5d-mark-ii-canon.html (German price comparison site) and found 5d mk2 at prices starting from 2144 (body only). But only a few shops claim to have the cam on stock. For the kit, prices start at 2864 (see http://www.idealo.de/preisvergleich/OffersOfProduct/1117716_-eos-5d-mark-ii-24-105mm-canon.html )

For lenses only, these days I usually find better prices in Holland then in Germany, 295 here http://www.kamera-express.nl/index.php?page=subsubtypes&subsubtype=471 vs 308 in Germany. The dutch shop now is out of stock, only few days ago they said they had stock. In Germany stock should be no problem, based on the info on the web.

So, if can check availability in Germany and are still able to cancel your Uk order, you may be off better both moneywise and in terms of swift delivery.

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cheers,

****

I find I have taken more out of focus shots and then taken some tack sharp photos with the Siggy lens. Because of the paranoia here in dpreview concerning the Siggy fifty lens, its easy to jump to the conclusion the lens is bad.

For example, I was shooting in very very low light, room lit by only one table light partly covered blocking some illumination with a low light bulb. I have taken pics in these conditions before. I was having a hard time focusing as I would focus with partially depressed shutter, wait a second or two then take the shot. My images were soft and out of focus, I panicked - Oh no, I too have a dud lens.

On the drive home from this episode, I started thinking about what had happened, the secret is in the partially depressed shutter, holding the exposure. I was shooting a chap moving around, and of course as he moved ever so slightly, while my camera held the focus, he moved into a focus plane that was not sharp, then I pressed the shutter the remaining distance to take the shot and presto - one crappy image.

In Low Light Conditions:

1) A warning to those contemplating purchasing this lens, this is one of those lenses you need to learn, you will really have to be conscious of what you are doing, and when you do get something not right - which will happen more with this lens than others.

2) Your f stop when shooting wide open can yield a very narrow plane of focus,easy to have the centre focus point not quite where you want and therefore a soft image.

3) The shutter speed will be low in very low light conditions, you will get some keepers at 1/30th of a second, but many soft images as well.

4) When shooting at a distance outside, I've found it is sometimes better to have all focus points on.

Just received my 3rd copy and unfortunately had the same focus-issues. Goodbye Sigma, hello Canon (again...).
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In the right light, at the right time, everything is extraordinary. Aaron Rose

I like your reasoning, but the fact of the matter is that this is how I take pictures and it results in many OOF-pictures, depending on the distance of the subject.

I am frustrated as hell since I received my 3rd copy of the lens for my 5DII and it consistently produces focus-errors. With micro-focus adjustment I can create supersharp pictures wide open, only when the subject keeps at the same distance...

I am going back to the Canon 50mm 1.4.
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In the right light, at the right time, everything is extraordinary. Aaron Rose

edwardbos said:

I am frustrated as hell since I received my 3rd copy of the lens for
my 5DII and it consistently produces focus-errors. With micro-focus
adjustment I can create supersharp pictures wide open, only when the
subject keeps at the same distance...

I am going back to the Canon 50mm 1.4.

Click to expand...

If you can get sharp pics when the subject remains still, the lens sounds o.k. to me. The problem with the moving subject is that is moves out of the DOF range of the lens at the wide open aperture. I would expect this to be the same with the Canon 50mm 1.4.

Rick

Micro-focus adjustment is quite overrated IMO, because most lenses require different adjustment values for different focal lengts, and as it seems, yet another correction for different subject distances. In this case, even though the focal length is always the same, different adjustment values are still needed. Canon allows you to adjust only single value, even though you would actually need two curves for "perfect" correction (assuming the lens is focusing consistently wrong and not just behaving randomly bad).

I'm not saying the adjustment is worthless, though.

Sorry, you must have misunderstood me. See example below. If I shoot a subject at 1,5 meters (on tripod) after microfocus-adjustment it is supersharp. But if I then focus on a subject which is at 5 meters it is totally OOF. If I then do microfocus-adjustment for that subject at 5 meters it is supersharp again, but then the subject at 1,5meters is OOF... And trust me, I performed this test about 12 times and it behaved consistently like this. And do not forget: I did the same test with my Canon 24-70 2.8 and Canon 100mm 2.8 and both performed perfect!!

So to be honest, I am now (after 3 copies) convinced that all sigma 50mm 1.4 behave like this on my 5DII, and people who argue that their copy works are just "lucky". No more Sigma for me.



[edit] Jari just beat me to it, but I fully agree with his comment!
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In the right light, at the right time, everything is extraordinary. Aaron Rose

But again, none of the cheaper stores have the kit in stock. They can list whatever prices they like, but the prices have absolutely no meaning without availability.

And there's no way I'm paying any more for the kit -- I wouldn't even have agreed to pay this much without the video feature (no need to buy a Sony HD camcorder, buy different kinds of batteries/accessories, and carry two devices with chargers during holidays). As a camera-only, 5D is way overpriced, IMO. Yes, the new sensor is nice and all, but without the video and the new sensor, it's just the same as the old 5D.

A couple of weeks ago I called Sigma-Benelux about the Sigma 50mm f1.4. I had a talk with one of the Sigma technicians. He told me that on this lens they have a 15mm tolerance. (I don’t know if the tolerance is different with other Sigma lenses) This basically means that the lens is within tolerance if it shows a maximum of 7.5mm FF or 7.5mm BF.

He also told me how they test/ calibrate the lenses. They do not test the lens (close) at MFD as most people do with the often used focus chart (the one that can be downloaded here: http://www.focustestchart.com/chart.html ), but they multiply the focal length by two in cm. In other words, a 50mm lens gets tested at 100cm and a 200mm lens would be tested at 400cm. (measured from CMOS/ CCD to subject) Furthermore the camera must be levelled straight and the subject must be put on a angle of about 30° or 35°. It’s also important that the subject has a lot of contrast and that the test takes place in broad daylight, and not under artificial lights or flash. According to the technician it is even best to use correct white balance.

The technician also told me basically the same thing that they wrote @ Lensrentals, ( http://www.lensrentals.com/news/2008.12.22/this-lens-is-soft-and-other-myths ) about the fact that a lot of the AF problems are often related to tolerances of lenses in combination with the tolerances of the used camera’s, so sending in a lens for calibration might not always be the solution.

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Mark

http://www.marksfotografie.nl

After testing 3 copies of the sigma 50 1.4 with a 5D, I reached these conclusions:

• AF: The three copies are pretty much identical. Slight front focus at short distances (0.80 m). precise focus at mid distance (2 m), unreliable focus especially at long distances. Front focus is worse with incandescent lighting.

• Mechanical issues: The second copy's focus ring locks if moved to infinitive and then autofocus does not work

• Resolution wide open tested with a newspaper page and resolution charts: First and second copies are identical. The third copy is better. This is very noticeable at the corners wide open. Small differences at the center.

When testing focus I never found any differences between auto focus and manual focus using the green confirmation light. My conclusion is that focus errors are either due to the camera or to a the interaction of the camera with this particular lens design. Front focusing was clearly worse when testing with incandescent light bulbs. Also, even when using the lens hood, front focus was worse when direct light from a light bulb was hitting the bottom part of the front element. I will do more testing taking real photographs to see the impact of focus unreliability to see if the third copy works for me.

Testing conditions need to be identical to be able to reach the right conclusion. I initially thought that the third copy was significantly better at AF because I tested with daylight. Differences disappeared when testing under identical conditions.

http://www.lensrentals.com/news/2008.12.22/this-lens-is-soft-and-other-myths

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An excellent lens lasts a lifetime, an excellent DSLR, not so long.

When I had the Sigma 50mm f/1.4 it had erratic focus on two different cameras - not front focus or back focus, but out and out erratic focus. Didn't matter which body it was on, it was a train wreck.

I sometimes get tired of the "You're DoF is so narrow you are obviously missing focus" argument, especially when it is applied to someone with experience. sigh
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bughunter

Your link gives an explanation that is too simplistic. The focus problems I have had with the sigma 50 1.4 can be seen both with auto focus and with manual focus using the green confirmation light. Auto focus lens calibration should not have anything to do with the behavior of the lens in manual focus. A lens with auto focus calibration issues should give erratic results but not consistent front focus or back focus. A lens poorly calibrated would move focus more or less than required by the camera. The amount of front or back focus would depend on how much focus movement the camera requested.

Lens design, optical issues like minor decentering, and limitations of the focus sensors are all factors that can play a role. Out of the 3 sigma 50 1.4 copies I have tested, the one that gives the best resolution also focuses more consistently.

rsn48 said:

http://www.lensrentals.com/news/2008.12.22/this-lens-is-soft-and-other-myths

--
An excellent lens lasts a lifetime, an excellent DSLR, not so long.

Click to expand...

In almost every post I have made when discussing problems of the Sigma 50mm lens, I acknowledge there are legitimate problems. I have never ever claimed that the lens is perfect, most lenses have some problems, whether Canon, Tamron, Sigma or Tokina.

I also acknowledge there are some crappy 450D's out there, but every reliable source I have read, including the linked article, talks about the statistics of lenses and cameras returned that are perfectly fine.

Do you really believe all those refurbished cameras for sale were refurbished. When Canon receives a "camera with problems" and discovers it is perfectly fine, how do you think the dealer sells it as - refurbished.

What I hope you got out of the linked article I responded to is that many lenses are sent back, often from one person sending back up to three lenses over time and these lenses work perfectly fine.

You can rant against not being taken seriously about a defective lens, and I certainly will take you seriously, but then you have to acknowledge that some lenses do go back as defective that work properly.
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An excellent lens lasts a lifetime, an excellent DSLR, not so long.