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Why the attitude about cheap stuff? A Vent

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You've obviously researched your choice of body and have made a very good decision. And you've taken in the advice to spend less on the body and more on lenses.

Now you need to get smart about your lenses. It's ironic that your example of the Nikkor 12-24mm wide-angle zoom is the least smart choice you could make in a ultra-wide zoom. It's very over-priced and there are some excellent alternatives. Also your mythical super zoom example doesn't hold much water because Nikon offers the very controversial "super zoom" 18-200VR. Which, by the way, is hardly cheap.

Not everything with the Nikkor badge is golden, and not everything made by third parties is rubbish.

You can go ahead and only buy stuff that has the Nikon logo on it. Some of it will be better, some of it will be better but not THAT much better, some of it will be exactly the same except for the logo on it and some of it will be inferior.

It's not really about being "cheap" but not paying more money than we need to. No, I wouldn't buy a $5 battery out of Hong Kong from fleabay. For peace of mind, I'll pay the ransom money and buy genuine Nikon batteries.

But I don't have the Nikkor 12-24. I chose the Tokina 12-24. I think it was really good choice. I'm happy I saved over $1,000AUD. I'm kinda proud to be "cheap". When people brag because they have the Nikkor, I think, wow, what a rube... that's a very ordinary lens and there's so many good ultra-wide zooms that are so much cheaper....
 
MusicDoctorDJ said:
Interestingly enough, Nikon will not allow the use of aftermarket
batteries in the D40, D40x and D60.

I have never seen one single aftermarket EN-EL9 battery work in a
Nikon D40, D40x or D90.

Put one in, and a message pops up on the camera's LCD stating "This
battery will not function in this camera" and the camera won't
operate.

We sell Sanyo aftermarket batteries at the store (which are very
reliable aftermarket batteries, if I may add), and none of the Sanyo
EN-EL9 batteries work in the Nikon's.

Once I discovered this problem (and I am the one who noticed this), I
pulled them all off of the shelf and reported the problem to the
powers that be.

We no longer offer aftermarket EN-EL9's.

And we get people in all the time who bought other brands of
aftermarket EN-EL9 batteries elsewhere . . . same thing.

I just don't understand why these battery companies are making
batteries that won't work in certain cameras . . .
Click to expand...
IIRC, Sanyo is the world's largest battery maker, but maybe that's changed in the past 5-6 years. They used to do a lot of OEM work; I wouldn't be surprised to find the Nikon battery comes off their lines.

Does that particular battery fit any other camera?

--
Charlie Self
http://www.charlieselfonline.com

 
MusicDoctorDJ said:
Brian D. Schneider said:
--The point is good aftermarket batts are not going to damage your
camera.
Click to expand...
Oh yes they can!
MusicDoctorDJ said:
and the manufactures cant refuse service unless thay can prove the
battery is at fault'
Click to expand...
Oh yes they can . . . and they will!

They don't have to prove anything!

The burdon of proof will be up to you to prove otherwise.

Of course, chances are you (and others) would just come here to the
chats instead and try to smear their name by posting a bunch of BS
about them because they refused to fix your camera under warranty.

Ever notice that the manufacturers warranty on any camera says that
impact damage will void the warranty?

Just the tinyest little ding anywhere on a camera and they can refuse
warranty service, even if that ding has absolutely nothing to do with
the defect or problem!

I've seen it happen many many times . . .

And they have to do this because so many people try to take advantage
of the warranty.
Click to expand...
And you call the guy complaining about getting screwed this way the propagater of BS!

Punish everyone for the actions of a few.

--
Charlie Self
http://www.charlieselfonline.com

 
counterfeit batteries and all sorts of other things have become a big problem. Just because something looks the same does not mean that things are the same inside. Some counterfeits are very good in imitating the real thing. IMHO, batteries are a bit problematic as the newer ones store a lot of energy and that energy in a short, etc. can cause significant damage.
--
Leon
http://homepage.mac.com/leonwittwer/landscapes.htm
 
Charlie Self said:
MusicDoctorDJ said:
Interestingly enough, Nikon will not allow the use of aftermarket
batteries in the D40, D40x and D60.

I have never seen one single aftermarket EN-EL9 battery work in a
Nikon D40, D40x or D60.

Put one in, and a message pops up on the camera's LCD stating "This
battery will not function in this camera" and the camera won't
operate.

We sell Sanyo aftermarket batteries at the store (which are very
reliable aftermarket batteries, if I may add), and none of the Sanyo
EN-EL9 batteries work in the Nikon's.

Once I discovered this problem (and I am the one who noticed this), I
pulled them all off of the shelf and reported the problem to the
powers that be.

We no longer offer aftermarket EN-EL9's.

And we get people in all the time who bought other brands of
aftermarket EN-EL9 batteries elsewhere . . . same thing.

I just don't understand why these battery companies are making
batteries that won't work in certain cameras . . .
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Charlie Self said:
Charlie Self wrote:

IIRC, Sanyo is the world's largest battery maker, but maybe that's
changed in the past 5-6 years. They used to do a lot of OEM work; I
wouldn't be surprised to find the Nikon battery comes off their lines.

Does that particular battery fit any other camera?
Click to expand...
As far as I know, the EN-EL9 is a one-of-a-kind battery and haven't seen another from a different camera maker that looks just like it.

--
J. D.
Colorful Colorado



Remember . . . always keep your receipt, the box, and everything that came in it!
 
What about Nikon accepting responsibility for early D80 formware blowing certain VR/OS lenses due to power issue? Nop, it ain't going to happen - and no Japanese company would admit its wrong unless ordered by the Court. All of us who suffered this are to be blamed for, err whatever. My 18-200, my friends 70-200, other friend too - all VR/OS lenses, the same symptoms and outcome. Coincidence? No, not at all.

These OEM exclussions are to cover their but and if THEY want they could fault anybody but them, their product or workmaship - The Untouchables. Anything done under warranty should be taken as their favour to us, a bonus. OK, you may have to wait weeks to happen and to get your stuff back...

BTW, Tamron 55-200 in Aus is only AU$99 (at Ted's) and is far from being desired. But that money will barely buy dinner for two...
 
Then how do you explain this thread?

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1034&message=24409523&q=d40x+thirdparty+battery+ENEL9&qf=m
MusicDoctorDJ said:
Interestingly enough, Nikon will not allow the use of aftermarket
batteries in the D40, D40x and D60.

I have never seen one single aftermarket EN-EL9 battery work in a
Nikon D40, D40x or D90.

Put one in, and a message pops up on the camera's LCD stating "This
battery will not function in this camera" and the camera won't
operate.

We sell Sanyo aftermarket batteries at the store (which are very
reliable aftermarket batteries, if I may add), and none of the Sanyo
EN-EL9 batteries work in the Nikon's.

Once I discovered this problem (and I am the one who noticed this), I
pulled them all off of the shelf and reported the problem to the
powers that be.

We no longer offer aftermarket EN-EL9's.

And we get people in all the time who bought other brands of
aftermarket EN-EL9 batteries elsewhere . . . same thing.

I just don't understand why these battery companies are making
batteries that won't work in certain cameras . . .
Click to expand...
--
dholl
 
And explain these too, please:

http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B000MK5B2K/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?_encoding=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B000RGG6T6/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?_encoding=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

If you can't explain these messages of hope, then you may have to retract your comment below.
dholl said:
MusicDoctorDJ said:
Interestingly enough, Nikon will not allow the use of aftermarket
batteries in the D40, D40x and D60.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
dholl said:
dholl said:
Put one in, and a message pops up on the camera's LCD stating "This
battery will not function in this camera" and the camera won't
operate.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
dholl
 
PhotoTraveler said:
Prove the battery didn't cause the problem. It's not hard for a
camera maker to say the 3rd party battery caused voltage
irreglarities which shortened the life of parts in the camera. Or
the battery had exccessive internal resistances (mainly due to being
a higher capacity battery which automaticaly have higher internal
resistance), this caused the battery to make excessive heat, thus
disturbing the thermal management of the camera and shortening the
life of the electronics (and no, this example is not at all far
fetched).
Click to expand...
Jeez, just take the battery out and put back in the OEM. It's up to them to prove you used a 3rd party battery. And since we know the battery didn't cause the problem, it's perfectly ethical, just avoids the dumb "consumer is wrong at all cost" argument.

This is the time for everyone to chime in. Has anyone heard of a camera battery damaging a camera?
 
Leon Wittwer said:
counterfeit batteries and all sorts of other things have become a big
problem. Just because something looks the same does not mean that
things are the same inside. Some counterfeits are very good in
imitating the real thing. IMHO, batteries are a bit problematic as
the newer ones store a lot of energy and that energy in a short, etc.
can cause significant damage.
Click to expand...
Define counterfeit.

Just because something looks the same and has a brand name printed on it does not mean that it is the real deal.

An aftermarket battery, OTOH, distributed by a lesser-known source than Nikon or Canon (and which may indeed have been manufactured by the very supplier that sells batteries to said companies) is not necessarily of lesser quality than any brand-name battery, and is far from counterfeit.

--
Best regards,

Bruno Lobo.



http://www.pbase.com/brunobl
 
While there is often a general correlation between price and quality it is by no means assured.

However, I'm sure you can find someone who will sell you an item for more than anyone else. I'd be happy to do so; let me know the highest price you can find for something & I'll gladly sell that item to you for more.

(Charlie, this is in response to the OP; I've yet to figure out nesting!)
 
Leon Wittwer said:
counterfeit batteries and all sorts of other things have become a big
problem. Just because something looks the same does not mean that
things are the same inside. Some counterfeits are very good in
imitating the real thing. IMHO, batteries are a bit problematic as
the newer ones store a lot of energy and that energy in a short, etc.
can cause significant damage.
Click to expand...
There is a big difference between counterfeit goods (i.e., made to look identical to name brand goods) and third party goods. Batteries from companies such as Sterlingtek are not counterfeit.

http://sterlingtek.com/ln03-canon-bp-511-dlc511.html
http://sterlingtek.com/digital-camera-batteries.html

I'm not aware of any widespread reports of problems with (non-counterfeit) third party batteries. At the very least, they haven't been reported on DPReview.

But I am aware of widespread problems with name brand, original manufacturer batteries:

Laptop Fires Prompt Sony Battery Recall — Again
http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/10/laptop-fires-pr.html

Georgia Man's Dell Laptop Bursts into Flames
Latest in a series of laptop fires
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/08/dell_fire.html

LG Responds to Battery Explosion Issue by Discontinuing the Sales of Laptop

http://www.techshout.com/laptops/2008/23/lg-responds-to-battery-explosion-issue-by-discontinuing-the-sales-of-laptops/

Google for variations of "laptop battery exploding" for many more examples.

Maybe the safest thing is to avoid original manufacturer batteries. :-)

Wayne
 
--Yes! WHY the attitude about cheap stuff? The poster has a bad atrtitude_ it is the attitude of manufacturers who churn out extremely expensive replacements for film cameras and whose own-brand lenses, however much they cost risk being poor due to lax quality control, or, let's say it now, GREED!

If someone makes a battery for £20 why do Canon charge £100?

If older lenses with accurate autofocus AND good resolution AND full-frame coverage can be had cheap, WHY pay ten, twenty, or fifty times that secondhand price for a modern plastic-barrelled badly made thing that cannot cover even APS-C properly and whose lens wobbles in its socket?

The 17-55mm F2.8 Canon comes to mind!

There are too full-frame lenses, mostly zooms from all manufacturers that are not up to the resolution that the sensors now offer, and the latest inflationary UK price hike by both Canon and Nikon adds to our woes.

Bodies are complex and expensive, but released onto the maket full of bugs and problems- D200, 5D2, A900, 1D111, etc.

These machines cost a small fortune even IF you are a pro, because their lenses and accessories are artificially expensive.

Anyone know the cost of remote Nikon releases? I can rember threaded shutter releases and simple cable releases at a few pounds.

And remotes that cost little for "budget" models are mysteriously unavailable for upper-class outfits.

There are loads of filters that costy more than I have paid for several very good full-frame lenses secondhand, and camera bags that cost as much as their contents.

None of this is remotely connected to photography- but is an investment in personal image itself.

It has to do with how we see ourselves and how we wish others to see us. Its jewellery and cosmetics for men-power dressing yes-exactly!

I like a nice machine, yes, but it must work perfectly all of the time and very few do. Often the cheapest ones outdo the pricey ranges, and it is not a case of lower expectations.

Its technological progress.

The cheap 18-55mm IS lenses Canon and Nikon now have are better sharper lenses than say a 16-35 f2.8L, a 17-35mm f2.8L and any number of topgrade but very iffy optics I have tried. Many are an expensive disgrace.

I have a 24-85mm Canon that is sharper than the 24-70mmL. It just is - and I have compared its results with Canon's own 5D2 samples onsite in Japan. It is. BUT, only if you focus manually. It does a double take. You can watch as you press, the lens focus, and then as you press, or before, the focus shiifting in the distance scale window before your very eyes. The results are awful-lots of razor sharp backgrounds and blobs where the people used to be!

My dealer, normally patient, retorted, that well, what do you expect - its only a cheap lens. ( No offer of return of "cheap" money, NB) But no, it is not cheap, because if a lens cannot autofocus correctly when you have purchased it to do EXACTLY that, it is not cheap- it is worthless, and if Canon do not fix it or replace it with another that actually does focus AND is as sharp, well, what would you do?

Manufacturers and dealers are a problem with attitude and I for one take exception to the poster for standing commonsense and reason on its head!
 
MusicDoctorDJ said:
Interestingly enough, Nikon will not allow the use of aftermarket
batteries in the D40, D40x and D60.

I have never seen one single aftermarket EN-EL9 battery work in a
Nikon D40, D40x or D90.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry but this is incorret. I own a D60 and use an aftermarket battery (impact) with no problems at all.

I think it is ok, even desirable, to search for the right cost/performance ratio. It's the aftermarket vendors that do not let the main companies (canon, nikon, sony etc..) charge whatever they want. For instance, if there wasn't Sigma 10-20, Tokina 11-16 and others, Nikon could charge more for its 12-24. That's capitalism in its best!

It is all about trade-offs. My camera will not be repaired under warranty if the aftermarket battery fries it. However in my (and many others) opinion that is not likely happening and I saved a few bucks without harm.

Everyone has a cost/performance ratio goal. To some the cost doesn't matter, to others the cost is stronger than performace and so on. The lack of warranty in some situations is just another factor to be considered in the cost/performace ratio. To some it's a "no way", to others it's worth.

--
Ricardo Busato
 
Seems like you stirred up a bit of a hornet's nest here.

I absolutely agree with you on batteries. You don't want to "spoil the ship for a halfpenny's worth of tar". Just to avoid warranty issues, I only use camera brand cells. Also, batteries are not all that expensive. A spare cell for my D90 cost a good deal less than a quality circular polarizer for my lens. Speaking of which, why do people buy a $1000 lens and put a $20 uncoated filter on it, and then complain about the filter?

On lenses, I have different motivations, and the savings can be in the hundereds of dollars, not the tens of dollars. I buy what works for me for the kind of shots I want to take. Sometimes, you can get focal length ranges from third party that you can't get from the body manufacturer. Sometimes, you can get better quality for the money, particularly in the cheaper lenses. However, judging by the reports, you can also have more issues with front and back focusing or incompatibility. But third party lenses aren't likely to damage the camera, and they can be returned if they don't perform. So I don't see lenses as having the same consequences as batteries.

Flash is another issue. You can save a few bucks on third party flash, but with the wireless remote systems now in place, I worry about full compatibility. So in the last 10 years I have bought only camera brand flash units.
--
Jerry
 
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