AV mode problem?

wastel · Jan 31, 2009

--
Hi everyone,

i tried my first macro shots today but they all a bit blurry, so I had a look in my instruction manuel and I think for macro pics the AV mode would be the best mode!

So I tried that but with the extension tubes connectet between my camerabody and the 50mm lens it seems not to work! Is it normal or are my extension tubes not good enough? Without the extension tubes the AV mode works fine!

My camera is a EOS 300 Rebel!
Cheers Klaus!

imqqmi · Jan 31, 2009

For macros you want to use a higher shutterspeed than the normally guide/rule of 1/(2x focallength). I'd try 1/200 as a minimum as the magnification exaggerates any motion your hands/body make which results in motion blur. While you half press look at the shutterspeed. If it's too slow either add more light or increase ISO. You probably want to use a small aperture (large number) to increase depth of field.

Good luck!

wastel said:
--
Hi everyone,
i tried my first macro shots today but they all a bit blurry, so I
had a look in my instruction manuel and I think for macro pics the AV
mode would be the best mode!
So I tried that but with the extension tubes connectet between my
camerabody and the 50mm lens it seems not to work! Is it normal or
are my extension tubes not good enough? Without the extension tubes
the AV mode works fine!

My camera is a EOS 300 Rebel!
Cheers Klaus!

--
Kind regards
Imqqmi

http://www.pbase.com/imqqmi

Brian D. Schneider · Jan 31, 2009

wastel said:
--
Hi everyone,
i tried my first macro shots today but they all a bit blurry, so I
had a look in my instruction manuel and I think for macro pics the AV
mode would be the best mode!
So I tried that but with the extension tubes connectet between my
camerabody and the 50mm lens it seems not to work! Is it normal or
are my extension tubes not good enough? Without the extension tubes
the AV mode works fine!

My camera is a EOS 300 Rebel!
Cheers Klaus!

--Are they auto tubes? there are some cheap tubes arount that don't have the electrical connection between lens & body. If the are auto they should work ok.
This picture was taken with a 12mm tube & 85mm lens at Av F22.

Brian Schneider

wastel · Jan 31, 2009

No,
they are not autotubes. I thought for trying out the cheap ones will do!
But I can see know that I have to spend a little bit more money!

But at least I found out for myself that I like to do macro! Just have to spend a bit more money for better results! And offcourse I have to practise more and play around with my possible settings!

Nice pic Brian! You use a Tripod or can you shot pics like that handheld?

Brian D. Schneider · Jan 31, 2009

wastel said:
No,
they are not autotubes. I thought for trying out the cheap ones will do!
But I can see know that I have to spend a little bit more money!
But at least I found out for myself that I like to do macro! Just
have to spend a bit more money for better results! And offcourse I
have to practise more and play around with my possible settings!

Nice pic Brian! You use a Tripod or can you shot pics like that
handheld?
--

--Yes I used a tripod, that was a 4 sec exposure. the lighting was indirect window light. Here is a link to the picture with full exif info.
http://www.pbase.com/klatuu/image/108239044

and if you really want to get into macro, eventually wou will want a dedicated macro lens. This picture is taken with a sigma 150mm macro. Have fun.

Brian Schneider

wastel · Jan 31, 2009

Yes I know Brian, but I work on a tight budget, so it will take time before I got everything together!
And till than I shoot with what I have and make the best out of it!
Cheers Klaus!

Brian D. Schneider · Jan 31, 2009

wastel said:
Yes I know Brian, but I work on a tight budget, so it will take time
before I got everything together!
And till than I shoot with what I have and make the best out of it!
Cheers Klaus!

--Sure Klaus, I think you will have a good time with it.

BTW I have a set of Kenko tubes, the give full function & are much cheaper than the canon.
Brian Schneider

wastel · Feb 1, 2009

So you say the Kenko's are good!

Than they should be on my Birthday's wichlist! I saw them here for 189AUS$, that should be affordable for this month!
Thanks for all your advice Brian!
Klaus!

Brian D. Schneider · Feb 1, 2009

wastel said:
So you say the Kenko's are good!
Than they should be on my Birthday's wichlist! I saw them here for
189AUS$, that should be affordable for this month!
Thanks for all your advice Brian!
Klaus!

--

--They work well for me & I have read that many others on these forums use them.
I payed around $180 cnd. a couple of years ago so $189 au sounds about right.
Gretings from the land of ice & snow.
(jan 14)

Brian Schneider

Weth · Feb 1, 2009

I recently received the Pro Optic Exntesion tubes for Canon EOS from Adorama for USD$95 for a set of 3 (13mm, 21mm, and 31mm). Build quality reportedly less than Kenko, but it does transmit the electrical information to the lens. I figured since there is no glass involved, I did not care as much about build quality as it is just a frame. Mounts are plastic/metal just like a kit lens. It also accepts EF-S lenses, which is a plus.

It is really an interim step, if I find I am doing more macro photography, then I would just get a dedicated Macro lens. But for playing around, this certainly fits my needs quite well.

WilbaW · Feb 1, 2009

Weth said:
I recently received the Pro Optic Exntesion tubes for Canon EOS from
Adorama for USD$95 for a set of 3 (13mm, 21mm, and 31mm). Build
quality reportedly less than Kenko, but it does transmit the
electrical information to the lens. I figured since there is no glass
involved, I did not care as much about build quality as it is just a
frame. Mounts are plastic/metal just like a kit lens. It also accepts
EF-S lenses, which is a plus.

It is really an interim step, if I find I am doing more macro
photography, then I would just get a dedicated Macro lens. But for
playing around, this certainly fits my needs quite well.

Yeah, I've found that EF and EF-S lenses function normally with these tubes, but there are some limits. For instance, if you use more than about 31mm with the EF-S 55-250, phase detect autofocus won't be able to lock on most of the time.

Brian D. Schneider · Feb 1, 2009

WilbaW said:
Weth said:

I recently received the Pro Optic Exntesion tubes for Canon EOS from
Adorama for USD$95 for a set of 3 (13mm, 21mm, and 31mm). Build
quality reportedly less than Kenko, but it does transmit the
electrical information to the lens. I figured since there is no glass
involved, I did not care as much about build quality as it is just a
frame. Mounts are plastic/metal just like a kit lens. It also accepts
EF-S lenses, which is a plus.

It is really an interim step, if I find I am doing more macro
photography, then I would just get a dedicated Macro lens. But for
playing around, this certainly fits my needs quite well.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I've found that EF and EF-S lenses function normally with these
tubes, but there are some limits. For instance, if you use more than
about 31mm with the EF-S 55-250, phase detect autofocus won't be able
to lock on most of the time.

--Because the lens becomes slower than f5.6 camera cuts off focus.
Macro is usually done manual anyway.
The kenkos I have cant be used with EFs, mayby newer ones can?
Brian Schneider

Weth · Feb 1, 2009

WilbaW said:
if you use more than
about 31mm with the EF-S 55-250, phase detect autofocus won't be able
to lock on most of the time.

I have been using live view with contrast detect focus and that works very well.

WilbaW · Feb 1, 2009

Brian D. Schneider said:
WilbaW said:

I've found that EF and EF-S lenses function normally with these
tubes (ProOptic), but there are some limits. For instance, if you use more
than about 31mm with the EF-S 55-250, phase detect autofocus won't
be able to lock on most of the time.

Click to expand...

--Because the lens becomes slower than f5.6 camera cuts off focus.

Isn't that limited by the maximum aperture that the lens reports to the camera? (Aparently some third-party lenses tell lies about their max. aperture to get around this limit.) The reported max. aperture wouldn't change with the addition of more tubes ...? All the camera would see is less light than the same scene without the tubes.

What I see is the lens working rapidly through it's focus range, just like it would if you tried to focus on something too close. This is with a well-lit subject (shutter speed in region of 1/500th), that is comfortably within the focus range.

Brian D. Schneider said:
Macro is usually done manual anyway.

True macro, certainly. In this case we're talking about lenses "functioning normally" (does the aperture actuation, IS, and AF work like it does without tubes?).

wastel · Feb 4, 2009

I just compared the price from the Kenko to the pro optic, and here in Austalia with the low Dollar I would just save around 30 bucks! So I will then rather order me the kenkos! Sounds like they are a little bit stronger build!
Hopfully they have still some in stock!

And if I can get no Kenkos for that price anymore I still can opt for the ProOptic!

Brian, i visitet Canada 3 times, nice and fresh country, unfortunatily my Wife wanted sun, and from Sun we got this summer enough here( Sydney Australia), they forecast 44 degree celsius for this sunday!
i can tell you one think, Iwould love to be in the snow know!
Cheers Klaus!

Brian D. Schneider · Feb 4, 2009

WilbaW said:
Brian D. Schneider said:

WilbaW said:

I've found that EF and EF-S lenses function normally with these
tubes (ProOptic), but there are some limits. For instance, if you use more
than about 31mm with the EF-S 55-250, phase detect autofocus won't
be able to lock on most of the time.

Click to expand...

--Because the lens becomes slower than f5.6 camera cuts off focus.

Click to expand...

Isn't that limited by the maximum aperture that the lens reports to
the camera? (Aparently some third-party lenses tell lies about their
max. aperture to get around this limit.) The reported max. aperture
wouldn't change with the addition of more tubes ...? All the camera
would see is less light than the same scene without the tubes.

Well yes the lens would report a smaller max aperture with tubes, that is if the tubes have full electronic function. If they are non-reporting like some teleconvertors the lens would attempt to focus. I dont know if my kenkos are non-reporting, Ill give that a try with a sigma 55-200 3.5-5.6 after breakfast.
Brian Schneider

Brian D. Schneider · Feb 4, 2009

Brian D. Schneider said:
WilbaW said:

Brian D. Schneider said:

WilbaW said:

I've found that EF and EF-S lenses function normally with these
tubes (ProOptic), but there are some limits. For instance, if you use more
than about 31mm with the EF-S 55-250, phase detect autofocus won't
be able to lock on most of the time.

Click to expand...

--Because the lens becomes slower than f5.6 camera cuts off focus.

Click to expand...

Isn't that limited by the maximum aperture that the lens reports to
the camera? (Aparently some third-party lenses tell lies about their
max. aperture to get around this limit.) The reported max. aperture
wouldn't change with the addition of more tubes ...? All the camera
would see is less light than the same scene without the tubes.

Click to expand...

Well yes the lens would report a smaller max aperture with tubes,
that is if the tubes have full electronic function. If they are
non-reporting like some teleconvertors the lens would attempt to
focus. I dont know if my kenkos are non-reporting, Ill give that a
try with a sigma 55-200 3.5-5.6 after breakfast.
Brian Schneider

--OK with a kenko 36mm tube on sigma 55-200mm F4-5.6 at 200mm the 50D will focus using phase AF. It hunts in low light but snaps into focus fast in bright kitchen light. So the kencos are non-reporting. Other 3rd party brands likely will be as well. Canon probably not.
Brian Schneider

WilbaW · Feb 4, 2009

Brian D. Schneider said:
Brian D. Schneider said:

WilbaW said:

Brian D. Schneider said:

WilbaW said:

I've found that EF and EF-S lenses function normally with these
tubes (ProOptic), but there are some limits. For instance, if you
use more than about 31mm with the EF-S 55-250, phase detect
autofocus won't be able to lock on most of the time.

Click to expand...

--Because the lens becomes slower than f5.6 camera cuts off focus.

Click to expand...

Isn't that limited by the maximum aperture that the lens reports to
the camera? (Aparently some third-party lenses tell lies about their
max. aperture to get around this limit.) The reported max. aperture
wouldn't change with the addition of more tubes ...? All the camera
would see is less light than the same scene without the tubes.

Click to expand...

Well yes the lens would report a smaller max aperture with tubes,
that is if the tubes have full electronic function. If they are
non-reporting like some teleconvertors the lens would attempt to
focus. I dont know if my kenkos are non-reporting, Ill give that a
try with a sigma 55-200 3.5-5.6 after breakfast.

Click to expand...

I'm completely lost.

A lens tells an EOS camera what its max. aperture is, via an electronic dialogue. No? Nothing to do with how much light is reaching the exposure sensor.

Are you saying that when you mount a lens on tubes with full electronic connectivity, the camera is informed, via the electronic dialogue, that the max. aperture is smaller than what is reported without the tubes? For that to be true, the tubes would have to intervening in the dialogue, and changing the answer.

Brian D. Schneider said:
--OK with a kenko 36mm tube on sigma 55-200mm F4-5.6 at 200mm the
50D will focus using phase AF. It hunts in low light but snaps into focus
fast in bright kitchen light. So the kencos are non-reporting. Other
3rd party brands likely will be as well. Canon probably not.

That's a different situation to the one I described - the system can't focus no matter how bright the scene, but it can with a shorter tube length.

I don't understand what you mean by non-reporting, and what it has to do with the situation you described.

Brian D. Schneider · Feb 4, 2009

WilbaW said:
I don't understand what you mean by non-reporting, and what it has to
do with the situation you described.

--It means the tube (or teleconvertor) does not report its presents to the camera so the camera still thinks the lens is f5.6 & will attempt to focus. A reporting tube or TC will report itself to the camera so camera will not focus once the max aperture goes past f5.6.
Brian Schneider

WilbaW · Feb 4, 2009

Brian D. Schneider said:
WilbaW said:

I don't understand what you mean by non-reporting, and what it has to
do with the situation you described.

Click to expand...

--It means the tube (or teleconvertor) does not report its presents
to the camera so the camera still thinks the lens is f5.6 & will
attempt to focus. A reporting tube or TC will report itself to the
camera so camera will not focus once the max aperture goes past f5.6.

OK, so your idea - "Because the lens becomes slower than f5.6 camera cuts off focus." - doesn't apply to my situation. No worries.

AV mode problem?

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