Mac user, computer compromised, has bank account cleaned out

Rarely are the big viruses of today written by joy seeking hackers. They may get 1 or 2 in occasionally, but the majority are being written as a business. The real world is a little different than what is in movies and on TV.

--
http://www.pbase.com/spiked3
 
A month ago Apple was advising users to start running anti-virus software
They were not. That was an old, old kbase document for OS 9, which did have viruses, that somebody found and did the chicken little on.
 
It's absurd to argue no one has come up with a OSX virus yet.
They haven't. What exists are fairly lame proof of concepts that the user has to deliberately install.
I get updates all the time to fix security holes.
Which ones were used for writing viruses?
A month ago Apple was advising users to start running anti-virus software.
That was a mistake and was pulled.
Do you think
Apple could stop issuing security updates today? If you think they
could then you must think there are no potential exploits today.
Let's see if they issue some in the future, mmmk?
Nobody is suggesting to cease patching security holes.

The point is that nobody has actually USED one of those holes to make a virus that propagates on its own without the user having to do anything.
You are not going to convince me any differently, I have been a
computer professional far too long.
Then you should understand why Unix is far more secure than Windows.
 
Rarely are the big viruses of today written by joy seeking hackers.
They may get 1 or 2 in occasionally, but the majority are being
written as a business. The real world is a little different than what
is in movies and on TV.
So why wouldn't these businesses be interested in all of those unprotected and vulnerable Macs? Certainly a Mac without any anti-virus software is easier to crack than a Windows machine with it. Or maybe it isn't.
 
First of all, please get your terminology straight. To the best of my knowledge, there has never been an OS X virus or worm. The have been a number of laboratory exploits that allowed the attacker to gain root access to an OS X machine, but none of these were turned into attacks in "the wild." There have been a handful of "social engineering" attacks, similar to the one that the OP mentioned.

Apple does not currently recommend anti-virus software. The reference that everyone quotes was from an old, and since updated website.

It's pretty clear that it is harder to write a successful virus or worm for OS X than it is for Windows. I doubt that it's impossible, but it hasn't happen yet.

Social Engineering attacks are a different story - witness the Trojans that are using pirated copies of iLife '09 and CS4 as vectors.

With a little common sense, the Mac is as safe as a computer can be (currently).
Absolutely not, but I do know that obscurity does not make it easier
to find an exploit. You present that argument as if being obscure
means insecure, and one has nothing to do with the other.

It's absurd to argue no one has come up with a OSX virus yet. I get
updates all the time to fix security holes. A month ago Apple was
advising users to start running anti-virus software. Do you think
Apple could stop issuing security updates today? If you think they
could then you must think there are no potential exploits today.
Let's see if they issue some in the future, mmmk?

You are not going to convince me any differently, I have been a
computer professional far too long. If you have some arguments that
contradicts what I say then feel free to post them so the other
'believers' can rally around you. But an opinion stated as a fact
does not count for much. Mac is just another computer, same story
different box.

--
http://www.pbase.com/spiked3
 
The same reason legitimate businesses are not interested either.
Walk into a best buy or Circuit City and ask why they have such a
small Mac software section. There is no money in it.
You might want to scan the papers: it's gonna be pretty hard to walk into a Circuit City soon. You know, Apple Stores are among the most profitable retail operations anywhere. OBVIOUSLY there's money it in.
 
1. Some years ago, my Mac Powerbook G4, was infected with a bunch of viruses, including Trojans, when I was staying in a motel, hundreds of miles from home, and using their newly installed wireless internet connection.

2. When reported to Apple, there was nothing they could do. But, Norton Anti-virus engineers, after several days of us working on the problem ----- helped me rid my Mac of all infection, as well as print out a report of all the viruses/trojans/worms with their file locations. I must give it to Norton, when it comes to infected Mac computers, these folks really know their business, :-)

3. And, yes, since that time, I have been using Norton anti-virus software to religiously protect my Mac computers. You can purchase this Norton software at either the Apple online or a local Apple Store -- or, directly from Norton. Once installed, simply set it to automatically keep itself updated and your Mac computers safe; and, annually, it will automatically remind you to renew your subscription, online. This software will do everything but make your coffee, snacks or meals for you, and you Mac computers; and, your Mac, will simply love this software partner and protector ---- it's like a "match made in heaven" ------ and, all you pretty much have to do, is: "Install it, set it and forget it", :-)

http://shop.symantecstore.com/store/symnahho/en_US/DisplayCategoryProductListPage/ThemeID.106300/categoryID.2221800

http://store.apple.com/us/product/TQ843LL/A (don't worry about the few reviews of the Apple folks at this link, that gave the product bad reviews ---- they, obviously are among those Apple types that still do not believe Mac computers get infected or hacked into ----- just know that if the Norton stuff didn't do as Norton says, it wouldn't be sold on either the Apple or Norton sites, :-)

--
BRJR ....(LOL, some of us are quite satisfied as Hobbyists ..)


http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/computersecurity/2009-01-28-hackers-data-scams_N.htm

Find the part about the Macbook. I thought this didn't happen to
macs. That's why I have one! What's up with this???
 
I once had my credit card information stolen by a cashier in a store who apparently took a cell phone picture of it while pretending to be on the phone during the transaction. He was eventually caught because Visa cards have the security code on the reverse side and he never took a picture of that.

PS: AMEX cards have the security code in front.
--
Mac
 
...and I have a ski resort on Mt St Helens I'll sell ya cheap.
 
1. Some years ago, my Mac Powerbook G4, was infected with a bunch of
viruses, including Trojans, when I was staying in a motel, hundreds
of miles from home, and using their newly installed wireless internet
connection.
Only if you installed something yourself.
2. When reported to Apple, there was nothing they could do. But,
Norton Anti-virus engineers, after several days of us working on the
problem ----- helped me rid my Mac of all infection, as well as print
out a report of all the viruses/trojans/worms with their file
locations. I must give it to Norton, when it comes to infected Mac
computers, these folks really know their business, :-)
Specifically, what viruses were on that list?

And I'd be very careful with Norton which has a history of causing more problems than it solves, such as silently corrupting Photoshop files, preventing admin authentication (which means you can't update anything) and even classifying the virtual memory swap files as malware.
 
The idea supported by some posters in this thread -- that Macs don't have any viruses because not many people use them -- is factually incorrect. It is one of the great misconceptions about the Macintosh.

Millions of people use Macintosh computers. Millions more use Windows computers. However, the Mac community is a big enough target for any group of criminals to go after. Especially when you consider that few Mac users run any type of anti-virus software. They certainly represent the low hanging fruit for any virus writer.

The criminals who write malicious code have a simple problem: It is very difficult to compromise the UNIX operating system that Apple uses in the Mac. The same is true for Linux which is also UNIX based. In other words, UNIX, in all its varieties, is inherently more secure than Windows. Like it or not, believe it or not, that's just the way it is. It has nothing to do with how many people use the platform.

However, none of this has anything to do with the newspaper story the original poster references.

As others point out in this thread the event described in the USA story involves a phishing scheme. This is not a virus, a trojan horse or anything else that "infects" the computer as stated in the story. It's simply a window that pops open while you are visiting a trusted web site that asks you for credit card, PIN or other confidential information.

In this kind of attack it's not the computer that's vulnerable but the person using the computer. The strategy is to get the user to compromise the information. Since phishing doesn't involve loading any code on to the computer any computer user, regardless of the platform, is at risk.

The Ars Technica web site recently ran a story detailing these new phishing schemes which are known as "in-session" phishing attacks. The story exactly describes the type of attack the poor bloke in the USA Today story fell victim to. If you ever engage in any online financial transactions you should read this:

http://arstechnica.com/security/news/2009/01/new-method-of-phishmongering-could-fool-experienced-users.ars

As far as the USA Today story mentioning that the computer was "infected"... that's just another example of poor reporting.

--
Paul
 
This guy got phished. Not enough detail evidence to show he was hijacked by a virus / vunerability.
 
He's been a member less than a week and this post was his first in the Mac forum. I smell a Mac-bashing troll who hasn't bathed in quite a while.

--
Scott
 
The only explanation I can think of is that he was running a first generation PowerBook G4 running Mac OS 9. There were about 10 or so malwares that affected OS 9.

The fact that BRJR was infected with MULTIPLE virii and trojan horses while staying at a motel 100's!!! of miles from home (not sure how that is even relevant) seems absurd. One? Maybe. Several? Not a chance. Most of the OS9 variants were transfered via an infected application if I remember correctly.
1. Some years ago, my Mac Powerbook G4, was infected with a bunch of
viruses, including Trojans, when I was staying in a motel, hundreds
of miles from home, and using their newly installed wireless internet
connection.
Only if you installed something yourself.
2. When reported to Apple, there was nothing they could do. But,
Norton Anti-virus engineers, after several days of us working on the
problem ----- helped me rid my Mac of all infection, as well as print
out a report of all the viruses/trojans/worms with their file
locations. I must give it to Norton, when it comes to infected Mac
computers, these folks really know their business, :-)
Specifically, what viruses were on that list?

And I'd be very careful with Norton which has a history of causing
more problems than it solves, such as silently corrupting Photoshop
files, preventing admin authentication (which means you can't update
anything) and even classifying the virtual memory swap files as
malware.
--
Scott
 
Surely a target group that is both technically less aware, and potentially (though their choice of more expensive hardware) more wealthy, than the average user, should be a truly sweet objective for the criminal mind?

Consider that the average Mac user just uses their Mac. They are much less technically aware of the inner workings and potential shortcomings than their Windows using peers. Witness the many concerned and worried questions seen in this forms about security on a Mac.

Also, where I live Macs are considered either a luxury item or a business tool. Both groups by definition have money to steal, a luxury item user potentially having more disposable income to siphon from their bank account? Perhaps.

Also both groups are more likely to have the higher cost, higher bandwidth broadband connections, not to mention quite capable hardware, that would surely make them prime real-estate for Bot herders?

So given the above assumptions, and the fact that Mac Users seem to be approaching 8-10% of online users, should they not at least be victims of at least 8% of technically initiated online fraud ? Or perhaps unwitting hosts to at least 8% of Botnets ?

The fact that they empirically are neither of these things is significant. And those of you who do work in the security business understand that risk assessment and risk mitigation are statistical sciences much more than they are technical.

I am not saying that there are no risks, but given the above criteria Mac users today are significantly less at risk through their technology than their Windows using peers.

As to their wariness of threats, that's down more to psychology than technology - but perhaps their choice of platform may also be indicative of a slight edge here?

Just some thoughts to ponder,

Steve

BTW: I personally spend 15 to 20 times more effort securing my Windows systems than I do on my Mac and Linux systems combined.
 
Steve, I agree 100% with your conclusions. Mac users are generally higher net worth individuals who are a better target than the game playing teenager with their stripped down boxes.
And consider this story:
My Vista laptop. Firefox 3. Kids need a Shockwave plug in for Miniclip.
Navigate to plug in, download, allow admin privileges.
Start to install, exe asks me if I want to try Norton Scan? No.

I install and over the next few days of checking it has installed a service, a start up item to automatically check for updates and program called 'helper' which may be the update thing, all in hidden files not picked up in searching the HD but finally found by my firewall.

This is very malware like behaviour and is would be identical if it were malicious.
Now, my iMac. Firefox3, Shockwave plugin for miniclip.
Navigate to plug in, download, allow admin privileges, install.

Over the next few days I check everything and realize it has installed precisely nothing else. No auto update, no start up item, nothing.
So I ask myself why.

Is it that the mac is too small a market to be interested? No. they made the plug in after all. If they can be bothered to do that then clearly it's worth doing.

Is it that they aren't capable of doing it? What Adobe? If anyone outside Apple knows MacOs, surely it's Adobe? They've been writing for Macs since he start and they are a big enough company to employ really good developers.

Is it that their marketing policy is different? Why would it be? Like I said, they made the plug in so why not try to make some money out of it?

Is it that they all use Macs and hate that sort of thing? Possibly, but the Windows developers use Windows boxes and hate it too.
Or could it be, just possible, that it is in fact really hard to do on a Mac?
I think that's the most likely explanation.
In any case, I can find nothing reasonable else.
Good day to you all.
Ian
Surely a target group that is both technically less aware, and
potentially (though their choice of more expensive hardware) more
wealthy, than the average user, should be a truly sweet objective for
the criminal mind?

Consider that the average Mac user just uses their Mac. They are much
less technically aware of the inner workings and potential
shortcomings than their Windows using peers. Witness the many
concerned and worried questions seen in this forms about security on
a Mac.

Also, where I live Macs are considered either a luxury item or a
business tool. Both groups by definition have money to steal, a
luxury item user potentially having more disposable income to siphon
from their bank account? Perhaps.

Also both groups are more likely to have the higher cost, higher
bandwidth broadband connections, not to mention quite capable
hardware, that would surely make them prime real-estate for Bot
herders?

So given the above assumptions, and the fact that Mac Users seem to
be approaching 8-10% of online users, should they not at least be
victims of at least 8% of technically initiated online fraud ? Or
perhaps unwitting hosts to at least 8% of Botnets ?

The fact that they empirically are neither of these things is
significant. And those of you who do work in the security business
understand that risk assessment and risk mitigation are statistical
sciences much more than they are technical.

I am not saying that there are no risks, but given the above
criteria Mac users today are significantly less at risk through their
technology than their Windows using peers.

As to their wariness of threats, that's down more to psychology than
technology - but perhaps their choice of platform may also be
indicative of a slight edge here?

Just some thoughts to ponder,

Steve

BTW: I personally spend 15 to 20 times more effort securing my
Windows systems than I do on my Mac and Linux systems combined.
 
It's absurd to argue no one has come up with a OSX virus yet. I get
updates all the time to fix security holes.
There's a substantial difference between the security hole/flaw that Apple release updates for and the kind of vulnerability that allows your computer to be infected by a self-propagating virus.
You are not going to convince me any differently, I have been a
computer professional far too long.
Clearly
 

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