Pentax is losing a "camera of the year" poll to Canon, Nikon and Sony

Yes, it appears that the Squirrels, both 2 and 4 legged divisions, have been very busy.

I sure love those meaningful polls.

I am, however, glad to see the K20D leading the pack.
--
'What does need have to do with it?'

richardday said:

If you actually mean 2008, then you're in the wrong place (forum),
the K20D is, by far and away, the best overall performance/value
camera of 2008.

Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, I think the K20 is a fine camera. But this is camera of the year, not the best performance/value camera. This is the best camera of the bunch. Period.

I am surprised that the D300 is not included in the mix. But in the bunch presented, the D700 is the best camera, IMO. I don't think the Pentax can compete in any given category with it, except price. That is where I think the D300 should have been included. Then there would be no category where Pentax would be the clear winner.

This is the main reason I have not upgraded from my K10 to the K20. I don't see it as a worthy upgrade. So I'll wait till the next gen of bodies comes out from Pentax, then decide. And now with reports of dying SDM motors coming out almost daily, my decision to stay with Pentax is getting more difficult. And that's after 21 years of using Pentax cameras.

Don't you think it's a bit lame trying to 'fix' internet polls?

Such actions are normally restricted to supporters of unpopular political regimes, or those with a religious axe to grind...

Political axe to grind...or just plain nuts....that's Baby Otis! He doesn't have anything against Sony, he just doesn't like them for religious reasons. Don't ask....
--
'This is more serious than I thought.....but it is still fun!
http://www.pbase.com/rupertdog Take a look- It's Free!
WSSA Pentax Ambassador #125PX

parallaxproblem said:

Don't you think it's a bit lame trying to 'fix' internet polls?

Click to expand...

Well, I didn't asked to vote for Pentax, did I? I just gave a link to the poll with a clear statement that Pentax is loosing. This was a fact at the time of my post.

I haven't even express my personal feelings about the fact that the Pentax is loosing the battle, have I?

parallaxproblem said:

Such actions are normally restricted to supporters of unpopular
political regimes, or those with a religious axe to grind...

Click to expand...

I believe that the "supporters of a favorite team" would make a better analogy. However your attempts to present an opponent to be an unmoral supporter of a fanatic religious regime are more likely to fit your own definition.

--
Cheers,
Alex

... at least it made me laugh

il_alexk said:

parallaxproblem said:

Don't you think it's a bit lame trying to 'fix' internet polls?

Click to expand...

Well, I didn't asked to vote for Pentax, did I? I just gave a link to
the poll with a clear statement that Pentax is loosing. This was a
fact at the time of my post.

I haven't even express my personal feelings about the fact that the
Pentax is loosing the battle, have I?

Click to expand...

Yawn... yeah, right... (not really)

il_alexk said:

I believe that the "supporters of a favorite team" would make a
better analogy. However your attempts to present an opponent to be an
unmoral supporter of a fanatic religious regime are more likely to
fit your own definition.

Click to expand...

Who said I was 'an opponent', speaks volumes for your psychology... I have 2 Pentax DS bodies and a bundle of expensive Pentax lenses (all the FA limiteds, an F*300 bla bla bla). If Pentax had released a camera body I wanted then they, rather than Sony would have got the money for this year's Xmas present to myself

For what it's worth, IMHO the K20D genuinely doesn't deserve any 'camera of the year' award as it is basically just a K10D with somebody else's (Samsung's) CMOS sensor shoved-in and a few firmware tweaks. The K10D with its weathersealing, Anti-Shake, 10MP sensor and high-bit ADCs could have merited that award when it was released (though its size/weight was and remains a great disappointment to me personally), but not the K20D

The most inspirational cameras of 2008 would have to be the 5DMk2, A900 and Panasonic G1. The G1 more in what it represents/fortells than what it offers. The 5Dmk2 has the best specs but some initial teething problems (hopefully now fixed with latest firmware). I put the A900 partly because having one I know it's good but mainly so I could register this protest at forum behaviour

The stuff with the squirrels is funny, but the idea of 'teams' and 'other teams' you mention, and this eager attempt to bias some poor guy's attempt at a reasoned survey on his website represents all that's wrong with this forum which seems to have overtaken the Canon forums in its tribal 'us and them' attitudes and 'fanatic' approach to Pentax ownership. Yup, I'll keep the comparison to political and religious extremists, but I'll agree that over-zelous football team supporters fall into the same grouping - nice company, huh?

structuresguy said:

structuresguy said:

If you actually mean 2008, then you're in the wrong place (forum),
the K20D is, by far and away, the best overall performance/value
camera of 2008.

Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, I think the K20 is a fine camera. But this is
camera of the year, not the best performance/value camera. This is
the best camera of the bunch. Period.

Click to expand...

Yes, I understood that. I personally think it is.

structuresguy said:

I am surprised that the D300 is not included in the mix. But in the
bunch presented, the D700 is the best camera, IMO. I don't think the
Pentax can compete in any given category with it, except price. That
is where I think the D300 should have been included. Then there
would be no category where Pentax would be the clear winner.

Click to expand...

Have you used a D300 or D700? - Agreed, they do have some features that are desirable, but they are outweighed by other factors which I find unacceptable. Size, weight, ergonomics, lack of true WS and in-camera SR, and also flat looking colour quality being the main camera issues, the other issue is the cost of the overall Nikon system.

If you are an aficionado of affordable (?) FF bodies (I most certainly am not), then I agree that the D700 is probably the best of the available trio (5D mkII and A900). If you'd list AF performance as being better, again I would differ. The D300 & D700 AF system cannot match the accuracy of the Safox system, nor is it any better at low light without the annoying focus assist lamp. For really improved AF performance you really have to jump to a much higher level to the D3X.

structuresguy said:

This is the main reason I have not upgraded from my K10 to the K20.
I don't see it as a worthy upgrade. So I'll wait till the next gen
of bodies comes out from Pentax, then decide. And now with reports
of dying SDM motors coming out almost daily, my decision to stay with
Pentax is getting more difficult. And that's after 21 years of using
Pentax cameras.

Click to expand...

That's because you haven't got a K20D. ;-)

I have both the K10D and K20D, the K20D is a very significant upgrade, maybe not as far as fps, but definitely everywhere else. Dying SDM motors has probably occurred with less than the number of fingers of one hand with forum members and is outweighed by the number of SDM users on the forum. I agree that QC and reliability are essential elements and I'm sure that SDM failures will dramatically lessen as Pentax further improve it, after all, warranty claims are a cost no manufacturer desires.

Back to voting. This is/should be, a personal choice anyway. If you like another brand of camera, then go ahead and vote, both in the poll and with your feet (if you can afford it!). Most folk here prefer the K20D, which is hardly surprising, as this is the Pentax forum after all!
--
Richard Day - 'Carpe Diem!'
Gloucester UK

richardday said:

I have both the K10D and K20D,

Click to expand...

Me too. The K20D is a better camera, but incrementally so; not monumentally.

richardday said:

the K20D is a very significant
upgrade, maybe not as far as fps, but definitely everywhere else.

Click to expand...

Hmmm.
Focus accuracy? A tie.
Focus speed? Score draw.
Long exposures? K10D by a neck.
Low-ISO noise? K10D by half a length.

Am I being picky? Yes. But, then again "definitely everywhere else" sounds like a bit of a paid-up Pentax marketer's phrase in the sense you used it.

Granted they are a minority, but there are certain photographers (e.g. those who religiously shoot at ISO100 only - I know a couple) for whom I would actually recommend the K10D over the K20D.

--
Cheers,
sfa

A very limited photographer ...

I considered upgrading to k20d, but after spending two weeks shooting high and low ...well, it wasn't worth it. It is a better camera, but it's only a minor upgrade.

Better white balance? Yes, but just set it manually when indoors. Better AF? not at all as I have the latest AF engine on my k10d
Liveview? I prefer the viewfinder Better high ISO performance? Yes.
Better JPEGs? Yes, but I shoot JPEG+RAW so it's not that important. More MPs? Yes but I usually print A4 or less anyway.

So, I will wait for the K30.

Kind regards
.lars

parallaxproblem said:

For what it's worth, IMHO the K20D genuinely doesn't deserve any
'camera of the year' award as it is basically just a K10D with
...
The most inspirational cameras of 2008 would have to be the 5DMk2,
A900 and Panasonic G1. The G1 more in what it represents/fortells

Click to expand...

Well, results of this poll
http://www.dslrdad.com/cameras/dslr-dad-camera-of-the-year-2008/
prove that you are wrong

--
Cheers,
Alex

wlachan said:

oops sorry son, my camera hasn't nailed the focus yet, just gimme
another sec... whir~
--
Alan Chan
http://www.pbase.com/wlachan

Click to expand...

Maybe you should get rid of your 40D then. Looking at your galleries it seems that it doesn't get the focus. See IMG_1128 or IMG_1156 (and I picked those at random).

So what exactly is your point?

Prieni
--

There are two kinds of light--the glow that illuminates, and the glare that obscures.

• James Thurber

http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/ralfprien
WSSA member #197PX

parallaxproblem said:

Don't you think it's a bit lame trying to 'fix' internet polls?

Click to expand...

Well, it's not really fixing it, is it. The poll results just reflect the group of users happening to stumble upon it (or be guided to it in forums like this).

As has been said in this thread, almost all of the voters will not have handled any two of these cameras sufficiently to cast an objective vote. All that remains then is subjective votes.

It is the poll that is pointless, not the vote of any single user.

parallaxproblem said:

Such actions are normally restricted to supporters of unpopular
political regimes, or those with a religious axe to grind...

Click to expand...

So what camera would Mugabe et al. vote for then?
It seems that you have more than a parallax problem...

Prieni

--

There are two kinds of light--the glow that illuminates, and the glare that obscures.

• James Thurber

http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/ralfprien
WSSA member #197PX

il_alexk said:

parallaxproblem said:

For what it's worth, IMHO the K20D genuinely doesn't deserve any
'camera of the year' award as it is basically just a K10D with
...
The most inspirational cameras of 2008 would have to be the 5DMk2,
A900 and Panasonic G1. The G1 more in what it represents/fortells

Click to expand...

Well, results of this poll
http://www.dslrdad.com/cameras/dslr-dad-camera-of-the-year-2008/
prove that you are wrong

--
Cheers,
Alex

Click to expand...

Ten thousand squirrels can't possibly be wrong!

'This is more serious than I thought.....but it is still fun!
http://www.pbase.com/rupertdog Take a look- It's Free!
WSSA Pentax Ambassador #125PX

Prieni said:

parallaxproblem said:

Don't you think it's a bit lame trying to 'fix' internet polls?

Click to expand...

Well, it's not really fixing it, is it. The poll results just reflect
the group of users happening to stumble upon it (or be guided to it
in forums like this).
As has been said in this thread, almost all of the voters will not
have handled any two of these cameras sufficiently to cast an
objective vote. All that remains then is subjective votes.

It is the poll that is pointless, not the vote of any single user.

Prieni said:

Such actions are normally restricted to supporters of unpopular
political regimes, or those with a religious axe to grind...

Click to expand...

So what camera would Mugabe et al. vote for then?
It seems that you have more than a parallax problem...

Prieni

--
There are two kinds of light--the glow that illuminates, and the
glare that obscures.

• James Thurber

http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/ralfprien
WSSA member #197PX

Click to expand...

Are you sure this is unfair? I thought all internet polls, tests, and reviews were all unbiased? Anyhow, at least "Just" a little.

BTW-Baby Otis hates Sony, he says it is a sick religion, and he will have no part of it, and believing in World Peace, he hopes to exterminate all those that buy Sony products. Peace by force....that's BO's Motto.

'This is more serious than I thought.....but it is still fun!
http://www.pbase.com/rupertdog Take a look- It's Free!
WSSA Pentax Ambassador #125PX

Wanganuilad said:

67.9%

can't understand how the K20 can be leading though with it having no
video...

Pete

Click to expand...

Hi Pete:

If you want REALLY great video, spend $400 and get a Sony Handycam.

Norm.
WSSA Member #184

my 2 cents --yes I do own a Oly 510 , Sony a100, Nikon d50 , Nikon d300

the Pentax is a most underrated camera . after giving it a try , I was very impressed!!

the 510 is for sale and sold I think and with some added cash I will look for a good price ,will purchase one

Norm1234 said:

Wanganuilad said:

67.9%

can't understand how the K20 can be leading though with it having no
video...

Pete

Click to expand...

Hi Pete:

If you want REALLY great video, spend $400 and get a Sony Handycam.

Norm.
WSSA Member #184

Click to expand...

Sorry, I ran out of editing time befoire I could share this wonderful thought:
first, watch the "Jelly Video" from the D90:
http://www.dslrdad.com/cameras/nikon-d90-d-movie-mode-shoots-jelly-video/

Now imagine the effect you could create if you staged a re-make of the Baywatch lead scene, shot with the D90...

That's why a CMOS sensor in a DSLR is not the optimum technology for video.

That's one of a few reasons why the D90 is not a better camera than the K20D.

Norm.
WSSA member #184

binky said:

my 2 cents --yes I do own a Oly 510 , Sony a100, Nikon d50 , Nikon d300
the Pentax is a most underrated camera . after giving it a try , I
was very impressed!!

the 510 is for sale and sold I think and with some added cash I will
look for a good price ,will purchase one

Click to expand...

A very balanced and insightful post, Binky!

I also shoot with a Nikon D70, a D300, and a range of Pentax DSLRs from the *istD to the K20D.

Overall, the D70 is my favourite Nikon - light, sharp, and a pleasure to handle. The D300 is a brute, but it earns the respect of some of our clients (there is a snob factor involved). I also have a bag of legacy Nikon lenses that are far too good to leave sitting on the sidelines... just can't justify the cost of the D3 or the D700, although I used to shoot film with the F4S.

For the assignments where I do not require the specific strengths of the D300 (fast focus tracking and fps compared to the K20D), and for the shots where I have the appropriate Pentax lenses (primarily the 12-24mm zoom) I grab the K20D and never regret leaving the Nikon(s) at the office.

Several of my friends shoot with Canon DSLRs. Personally, I can't get used to the "feel" of the system, although the better lenses are really fine.

Norm.

local camera stores... inventory// Went out looking for a kd20 today no one had
one to show me.

But the sales people were more then happy to tell he how over priced it is and not many people ask for them. I spotted a new Olympus E3 only one the 1st one I have seen in a dealers show room, I am afraid he said that's the only one we have not a very big seller, why don't you take a look at this C---n or this great d60 nikon

I get so tired of that kind of thing, pure nonsense.

I wonder what the folks over at Oly and Pentax would say I wondered to my self
LOL

this is same chain of stores that told me not to by a Sony"not very good you said the man"

a great reason to to by from chain camera stores, well at least they won't get my cash

do any of of you keep up on the prices? where is a good cheap place to order a Pentax