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casperskitty

casperskitty

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One is HSM, one is screw drive.

One has yellower colors, one has bluer colors.

They are both from different manufacturers.
 
The tamron is relatively slow, but has better IQ I.M.H.O.
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Nikon D90
18-105
60 Macro
R1 Flash

Sony A100, A700
KM 35-70
KM 70-210 F4
KM 600 F4
KM 50 F1.7
KM 28-135
 
I have the Tamron and the IQ is very good at all ranges but the autofocus is screw drive off the camera autofocus motor and the slowest focusing of the three. The Sigma I do not have but all reports I have seen give it slightly poorer IQ (only slightly) but substantially faster focus with it's ring - true - HSM motors (in lens).

You have to ignore the focus speed references to any review on the Tamron that was done on Nikon or Canon as a slower micro motor is used in those versions. The low end Nikon/Canon camera models do not have in camera focus screw drive and Tamron chose not to make this a HSM/SSM focus drive. A mistake I think on their part.

I love my Tamron for it's IQ but if I was doing mostly action shots I would probably go with the Sigma.

The Sony 70-200SSM is the best by far overall but $1000 more.

Not sure what range you need but I often find the 70mm to long on APS-C cameras. Sigma also makes a 50-150 f2.8 HSM for APS-C that is much smaller and lighter and might be a better range for you. I at times wish that was the one I had bought but it was not available at the time. I rarely use the 200mm end but quite often find the 70mm end to long.

All the lens are quite good. If action shots most important go Sigma. If the best IQ most important go Tamron. If you have excess capital and want the best combination of speed and IQ definately go Sony. All are winners.

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tom power
 
He is referring to the Autofocus speed here. Both lenses are "fairly fast" larger aperture size, f2.8 lenses.

The fastest lenses, largest apertures, commonly sold are in the f1.4 range but you will not find longer zooms with this large an aperture. 70-200 f2.8 is considered to be a "fast", large aperture lens.

Three basic types of autofocus drive are common now.

(1) Screw drive. Inside the camera body drive motor through a slotted shaft to the lens to shift the lens elements. Good if the motor is high torque/speed as in the Sony camera bodys A200 and up.

(2) Micro motors. These are small motors in the lens that can vary from pretty darn slow to medium speed. Not so good.

(3) SSM/HSM These are powerful high speed in lens "ring motors" geared directly to a gear surrounding the lens elements and are very fast and quiet. Also by design cause the lens to be a little bigger and heavier and are more expensive to manufacture. With out question the best by far if you need fast focusing.

A lens like the 70-200 f2.8 is typical of the type of lens that can benefit greatly from HSM/SSM. On a lens like the Sony 100mm Macro the HSM type drive would be virtually useless as most times doing macro you will not need the speed at all and many times would be in manual focus mode.

Hope this helps you some.

--
tom power
 
Here's the deal.

I am getting the a700 soon. I plan to get the tamron 18-250. I already have a minolta 50/1.7. But I am wondering if I will be happy with the 18-250 as it is f/3.5-6.3 rather than getting something faster. That is why I was looking at the 70-200 f/2.8 lenses. There is no way I can afford the Sony right now. But what I was thinking, is that the 18-250 is $450 and I should have an extra $300 that I was planning on just saving up. So would I benefit more by getting the ff tamron 70-200 for $620 or should I just stick with the 18-250? Since I already have the 50/1.7, I have a lens for shooting indoor in low-light. But for shooting children outdoors, it would be too limiting on range. I need something I can zoom in and out with as kids get closer or further away. But I wonder if the 70 end would be too long. I think it might.

To further complicate the matter, my husband is getting an a200 around the same time I get my a700. His will come with the 18-70 kit lens of course. So I would have the 18-70 lens at my disposal but I don't want to waste time changing lenses either.

I like the idea of a faster zoom, but the 70-200 would require that I carry a second lens to cover the wide-tele end, which would also require that I switch lenses, and quickly sometimes.

I like the idea of a one lens solution in the 18-250mm lens. But it is slower. I guess the bottom line is, would the 18-250 be fast enough outdoors to capture children at play even on overcast days? What would be the verdict on that?

--
Jennifer
 
tompower53 said:
He is referring to the Autofocus speed here. Both lenses are "fairly
fast" larger aperture size, f2.8 lenses.
Click to expand...
That was what I thought, but wasn't sure. I assumed that the af on the lenses were all operated the same. So I wasn't sure how they could have faster or slower af, now I know.
tompower53 said:
The fastest lenses, largest apertures, commonly sold are in the f1.4
range but you will not find longer zooms with this large an aperture.
70-200 f2.8 is considered to be a "fast", large aperture lens.

Three basic types of autofocus drive are common now.

(1) Screw drive. Inside the camera body drive motor through a
slotted shaft to the lens to shift the lens elements. Good if the
motor is high torque/speed as in the Sony camera bodys A200 and up.

(2) Micro motors. These are small motors in the lens that can vary
from pretty darn slow to medium speed. Not so good.

(3) SSM/HSM These are powerful high speed in lens "ring motors"
geared directly to a gear surrounding the lens elements and are very
fast and quiet. Also by design cause the lens to be a little bigger
and heavier and are more expensive to manufacture. With out question
the best by far if you need fast focusing.
Click to expand...
So, it is obvious if the lens is SSM/HSM because they say so. How do I know if a lens is a screw drive or micro drive? It may say so, but then what would the designation be?
tompower53 said:
A lens like the 70-200 f2.8 is typical of the type of lens that can
benefit greatly from HSM/SSM. On a lens like the Sony 100mm Macro the
HSM type drive would be virtually useless as most times doing macro
you will not need the speed at all and many times would be in manual
focus mode.

Hope this helps you some.
Click to expand...
Yes, it helped a lot. Thank you very much.
tompower53 said:
--
tom power
Click to expand...
Again, thanks very much.

--
Jennifer
 
Yes the 18-250 will work okay on a cloudy day.

You might need to turn up the ISO to 800 or so and the focusing will slow down some but it will work fine. The 18-250 a very good lens that just by it's nature, a smaller aperture long telezoom, is a compromise.

No question at times the faster 70-200 f2.8 would work better by it's nature, a large aperture telezoom, but it is much bigger and heavier and does not have the range of the 18-250.

Sounds to me that you would be better off with the 18-250 versus the 70-200 for now as the A700 with 70-200 attached is quite a load to carry around and more of a specialized lens. Because of the weight not picnic with the kids friendly unless you are in charge of carrying the camera kit and the kids are helping carry everything else.

Almost for sure if you do get very involved with photography as a hobby you will eventually get a 70-200 2.8 but for now I would guess you would be better of with the 18-250 or 50-150 f2.8 HSM Sigma.

I suggest the Sigma 50-150, which is a large aperture fast focusing lens and much smaller and lighter than a 70-200, cloudy days will be no problem and your husband will have the 18-70 kit for wide angle on brighter days.

--
tom power
 
casperskitty said:
Here's the deal.

I am getting the a700 soon. I plan to get the tamron 18-250. I
already have a minolta 50/1.7. But I am wondering if I will be happy
with the 18-250 as it is f/3.5-6.3 rather than getting something
faster. That is why I was looking at the 70-200 f/2.8 lenses. There
is no way I can afford the Sony right now. But what I was thinking,
is that the 18-250 is $450 and I should have an extra $300 that I was
planning on just saving up. So would I benefit more by getting the ff
tamron 70-200 for $620 or should I just stick with the 18-250?
Click to expand...
I say stick with the 18-250 to start, later buy other lenses as needed. That's the difference between P&S and DSLR, you are not locking in your lens choice when you start.
casperskitty said:
To further complicate the matter, my husband is getting an a200
around the same time I get my a700. His will come with the 18-70 kit
lens of course. So I would have the 18-70 lens at my disposal but I
don't want to waste time changing lenses either.
Click to expand...
What's worse that probably would involve getting the lens off his camera as well as changing yours. You need more lenses before trading gets really practical.
casperskitty said:
I like the idea of a one lens solution in the 18-250mm lens. But it
is slower. I guess the bottom line is, would the 18-250 be fast
enough outdoors to capture children at play even on overcast days?
What would be the verdict on that?
Click to expand...
I have the a700 and the sony 18-250. That is my walkabout lens and the lens normally left on the camera just in case. ( I have a whole bunch of other choices, but each is a much more limited zoom) I've shot with it on pretty dark overcast days, and that at ISO 200. It probably depends on just how fast your kids are and how practiced you have become at using it. I suspect you'd be fine on overcast days, but if you want to shoot into the twilight that would require high ISO. And if the kids are really fast it may take a big flash to really get the blur out. The bottom line is the 18-250 is probably the ideal first lens as it covers so much and is pretty high quality.

On the business of getting just the 70-200, probably not a good idea. That's going to often be too long a lens. That would especially be the case for use indoors. And while f2.8 is faster, it's not that much faster. It's only a little over two stops even against the long end of the 18-250. Your low light lens is the 50mm which beats f2.8 by a bit, and it can be used outside too.

You may also find that you need a longer zoom and one of the 70-300's or even the 70-400 will be a better choice once you get to adding lenses. The 18-250 is going to give you the chance to try a very wide range of focal lengths to find out what you will really use.

Walt
 
tompower53 said:
Yes the 18-250 will work okay on a cloudy day.

You might need to turn up the ISO to 800 or so and the focusing will
slow down some but it will work fine. The 18-250 a very good lens
that just by it's nature, a smaller aperture long telezoom, is a
compromise.

No question at times the faster 70-200 f2.8 would work better by it's
nature, a large aperture telezoom, but it is much bigger and heavier
and does not have the range of the 18-250.

Sounds to me that you would be better off with the 18-250 versus the
70-200 for now as the A700 with 70-200 attached is quite a load to
carry around and more of a specialized lens. Because of the weight
not picnic with the kids friendly unless you are in charge of
carrying the camera kit and the kids are helping carry everything
else.

Almost for sure if you do get very involved with photography as a
hobby you will eventually get a 70-200 2.8 but for now I would guess
you would be better of with the 18-250 or 50-150 f2.8 HSM Sigma.
Click to expand...
I am actually an art major right now, and will be taking my photography classes starting in the fall. I have been asked by some family and friends to do some portraiture of their children and told them I am getting my DSLR soon and would be happy to once I get acquainted with the camera. I currently use a 35mm canon (rarely anymore) that I have owned for almost 3 years and a 35mm Minolta with the 50/1.7 lens that I bought after deciding on switching to Sony.

I just don't want to mess with setting up a little studio in my home and I really like the results of more candid portraits. That is actually what I have been asked for.

I am going to watch the cc closeout and see if they have the a700. But, yes, I would like to get some really nice lenses as I go.
tompower53 said:
I suggest the Sigma 50-150, which is a large aperture fast focusing
lens and much smaller and lighter than a 70-200, cloudy days will be
no problem and your husband will have the 18-70 kit for wide angle on
brighter days.
Click to expand...
I will look at that one. Thanks for the advice.
tompower53 said:
--
tom power
Click to expand...
--
Jennifer
 
tompower53 said:
(3) SSM/HSM These are powerful high speed in lens "ring motors"
geared directly to a gear surrounding the lens elements and are very
fast and quiet. Also by design cause the lens to be a little bigger
and heavier and are more expensive to manufacture. With out question
the best by far if you need fast focusing.
Click to expand...
The old Minolta 80-200 mm is said to focus just as fast as the Minolta/Sony 70-200 mm, but generally speaking you're probably right.

There are other advantages to SSM (there can be, at least). Direct manual focus (DMF) is one. Another is the function of the focus limiter: on screw-drive lenses, it consists of a mechanical blocking device that locks the lens in either the close range or in the far range, but with the electronic limiter on SSM lenses you can focus manually past the limit without deactivating it (I'd love that in my 200 mm macro).
 
Thanks Walt. I have been trying to make my final decision for months now. And the time is getting closer.

Only a week or two til I buy and I tell you I can almost taste it ;-)

I am just getting the photographer's equivalent of cold feet I guess. I just want to make sure I make the best decision because I won't be able to get another lens for a few months after this. Probably not until summer. And at that point, I think I really might like to get a flash or something else if I am really happy with the lens I do go with.

Of course, some of the talk here has me worried that prices are going to go up before I can buy. If that happens, I guess I will just wait longer and watch circuit city to see what they have. And, then, if that doesn't pan out, I will just have to see what happens after the PMA.

I plan to get the tamron 18-250 and I most likely will. It has to be better than the kit lens I have for my canon and I have made due with that for all this time. I think I could go for quite some time with the 18-250 and the 50/1.7

Basically, with memory cards and an extra battery and other little stuff, plus the body and lens, I am at about $1700. I will have about $300-350 left over. I think I will put it up and save for a while towards whatever I find my heart desires later.

So thanks for calming me down. And thanks for all the advice.

--
Jennifer
 
The 18-250 will work just fine for what you're describing. I wouldn't even consider the 70-200's until you're considering indoor sports shooting, or very high speed outdoor shooting, like motor racing....
 
Here are a couple of examples of the a700 with 18-250 on a very overcast day. Like another poster pointed out, these were at ISO800 and the lens was wide open (f6.3). I own the Tamron version, but they are basically the same lens. The Sony focuses slightly faster, and I heard that the build quality is slightly better. I love the lens. The image quality is very good especially for the range it covers, and it is sharp wide open as well. I would suggest you go with this option first as it will give you a very good one lens solution as you grow. It can also act as a good portrait lens as well IMHO.









--
Always Learning.

http://flickr.com/photos/a200eric/
 
Thanks, those pics are great. Okay, every response here is pushing me toward the 18-250, which I already planned to get. So, decision made. Thanks so much. Judging by the advice here and the pics I have seen, I think it will be perfect.

--
Jennifer
 
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