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Hats off to Panasonic.

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amblepath

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In examining the recent side by side comparison tests I was impressed with how well Panasonic cameras fared in all categories. It seems that Panasonic has found that winning combination of excellent build quality, class leading lenses, excellent interface, lots of features (including raw on many models) and suprise suprise even class leading high ISO on some of it's newer models.

Some might say but they've flopped with dslr's. Well I had a look at a G1 yesterday and I was very impressed. I think they've pegged the direction for the mass market looking for quality imaging.

This is in no way meant to downgrade other cameras and Panasonic won't be challenging Canon anytime soon. However I think they deserve a lot of praise for a company that many people wrote off as a maker of microwaves.
--
Thanks, Mike
'Never Lose the Wonder!'

 
It's great that Panasonic is making good cameras. However I feel that in the recent reviews they're getting extra point because the new models are so much better than the previous inferior models. This is in contrast to Canon cameras, who seem to get points deducted because the new cameras aren't head and shoulders better than their previous class-leading cameras.
 
Graystar said:
It's great that Panasonic is making good cameras. However I feel
that in the recent reviews they're getting extra point because the
new models are so much better than the previous inferior models.
This is in contrast to Canon cameras, who seem to get points deducted
because the new cameras aren't head and shoulders better than their
previous class-leading cameras.
Click to expand...
Actually Canon should very well be significantly ( head and shoulders) ahead since they had the advantage of 50 yrs + but the fact is they aren't and I say welcome to the new kid on the block.
 
John Tracy said:
Graystar said:
It's great that Panasonic is making good cameras. However I feel
that in the recent reviews they're getting extra point because the
new models are so much better than the previous inferior models.
This is in contrast to Canon cameras, who seem to get points deducted
because the new cameras aren't head and shoulders better than their
previous class-leading cameras.
Click to expand...
Actually Canon should very well be significantly ( head and
shoulders) ahead since they had the advantage of 50 yrs + but the
fact is they aren't and I say welcome to the new kid on the block.
Click to expand...
I agree, years of swamping the shelves with almost identical lack lustre (read innovative) cameras has taken its toll on Canon.

Being at the top breads complacency, and they will have to watch out for Samsung as well, as it is looking for gaps to fill with innovations.
see the HZ10W / WB500 model.

Brian
 
Graystar said:
It's great that Panasonic is making good cameras. However I feel
that in the recent reviews they're getting extra point because the
new models are so much better than the previous inferior models.
This is in contrast to Canon cameras, who seem to get points deducted
because the new cameras aren't head and shoulders better than their
previous class-leading cameras.
Click to expand...
This happens in other areas too. Usually Oscar winning directors would direct another film that's every bit as good as the last one. The films would get nominated but never won the award. I don't see the problem with it.

Canon is sit at the unique position to make sensor for their own cameras. Yet they have elected to keep using Sony's noisy 100-trillion megapixel chips. Why should they get any more credit.

Plus they were the last to make zoom lens extend to ultra wide angle. Panasonic clearly tried harder than Canon in the P&S space.
 
John Tracy said:
Actually Canon should very well be significantly ( head and
shoulders) ahead since they had the advantage of 50 yrs +...
Click to expand...
50 yrs + of what? The modern compact is a lens in front of a computer. Does Canon has 50 yrs of computer experience? No. But Panasonic does. What Panasonic doesn't have is the lens experience, which is why there's a Leica on the front of their cameras.

By a measure of experience, it's the combined experience of Panasonic and Leica that should be way ahead of Canon.
 
Fuji still makes their own sensors. For quite a while they really were head and shoulders above the reast. Now, just an inch or two better.

As any cyclist knows- it's hard to beat the pelaton.
--

 
I think the fz series are the first superzoom cams, the fz 20 was light years ahead from anything in the class existed so far. In less than 18 months after fz20 at least 6 manufacturers discovered interest in this segment and they presented their me too models just to make money from their brand awareness. All their models were rated by dpr under fz20. They did it for marketing reasons only, well that's the way system works and it will keep working as long as there are people who buy by brands without evaluating their needs and the characteristics of "things"they buy.

By the way it is the great defeat of marketing as well since more and more marketeers cannot balance the terms brand awareness and opinion leaders influence for which always say they' re looking for and appraise it and blah, blah, blah...
 
There is no doubt that Panasonic is currently by far the most innovative camera company with two cameras to confirm that distinction: The G1 and LX3. But can they turn their innovations into success in the market place. Cannon and Nikon have adopted either a conservative and in some case a regressive strategy. Why? Because that is what the market demands. There seems to be tremendous inertia to resurrect the arbitrary 35MM Film Format under the guise of a technically superior full frame. This is not an innovation. Developing the first micro 4/3 camera is an innovation and point to the direction of the future of photography. Panasonic, however, will need to improve their sensors to have noise characteristics closer to Nikon.
--
Erwin
 
I think the Olympus C-2100 UZ was years before the FZ20, or even the FZ1.

It was a 10x zoom camera. And it still is pretty good.

--
EOS 50D, 20D, 10D, 630, A-1, SD1000
-- Please remove the Quote option!
 
The first superzooms were by Sony - Mavica FD71 (10x, Aug 1998), Canon - Pro90is (10x, Jan 2001) and Olympus - C2100UZ (10x, Jun 2000), all with long lenses and and most with image stabilization.

The Panasonics were "johnny-come-latelys" by comparison with the FZ1 being announced in September of 2002, the FZ10 in October of 2003 and the FZ20 in July of 2004. So it was actually Panasonic who discovered interest in the segment after Sony, Canon and Olympus had established it.

The FZ1, 10 and 20 were certainly not "light years ahead" of anything as the C2100UZ and Pro90is easily bettered the FZ1 and FZ10 in noise control and overall image quality, even with their lower resolutions. Both the 2.5Mp Canon and the 2Mp Olympus were quite remarkable cameras.

Rick
aris14 said:
I think the fz series are the first superzoom cams, the fz 20 was
light years ahead from anything in the class existed so far. In less
than 18 months after fz20 at least 6 manufacturers discovered
interest in this segment and they presented their me too models just
Click to expand...
---- snip ----
 
Graystar said:
John Tracy said:
Actually Canon should very well be significantly ( head and
shoulders) ahead since they had the advantage of 50 yrs +...
Click to expand...
50 yrs + of what? The modern compact is a lens in front of a
computer. Does Canon has 50 yrs of computer experience? No. But
Panasonic does. What Panasonic doesn't have is the lens experience,
which is why there's a Leica on the front of their cameras.

By a measure of experience, it's the combined experience of Panasonic
and Leica that should be way ahead of Canon.
Click to expand...
Looks like they are well on their way.
 
With all the talks about Canon slipping in innovation, you might be surprised to find out that Canon ranks third in the number of patents filed in 2008. Panasonic, which is Matsushita is #6:
  1. 1 IBM took the : 4186 patents.
  2. 2 Samsung : 3515 patents.
  3. 3 Canon : 2114 patents.
  4. 4 Microsoft : 2030 patents.
  5. 5 Intel : 1776 patents.
  6. 6 Matsushita : 1745 patents.
  7. 7 Toshiba :1609 patents.
  8. 8 Fujitsu : 1494 patents.
  9. 9 Sony : 1485 patents.
  10. 10 HP : 1424 patents.
Taken from
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/IBM-patents-filing-2008,6847.html

Compare to 2005 figures, it has slipped from #2, but the total number is higher in 2008:

1 IBM 2,941
2 Canon 1,828
3 Hewlett-Packard Company 1,797
4 Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd. 1,688
5 Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd. 1,641
6 Micron Technology, Inc. 1,561
7 Intel Corporation 1,549
8 Hitachi, Ltd. 1,271
9 Toshiba Corporation 1,258
10 Fujitsu Limited 1,154

Taken from
http://usa.canon.com/templatedata/AboutCanon/ciwcipatent.html
 
I will not doubt u and sure it's right what u say historically speaking, but fz 20 is overall far better than its early and after competitors even 18 months after firstly presented... and overall is the key word here, no matter if this overall is hugely based on the lens (after all the lens is more than half of any camera) followed by the GUI, if not in reverse order for a serious percentage of users...
 
dylanbarnhart said:
With all the talks about Canon slipping in innovation, you might be
surprised to find out that Canon ranks third in the number of patents
filed in 2008. Panasonic, which is Matsushita is #6:
  1. 1 IBM took the : 4186 patents.
  2. 2 Samsung : 3515 patents.
  3. 3 Canon : 2114 patents.
  4. 4 Microsoft : 2030 patents.
  5. 5 Intel : 1776 patents.
  6. 6 Matsushita : 1745 patents.
  7. 7 Toshiba :1609 patents.
  8. 8 Fujitsu : 1494 patents.
  9. 9 Sony : 1485 patents.
  10. 10 HP : 1424 patents.
Taken from
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/IBM-patents-filing-2008,6847.html

Compare to 2005 figures, it has slipped from #2, but the total number
is higher in 2008:

1 IBM 2,941
2 Canon 1,828
3 Hewlett-Packard Company 1,797
4 Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd. 1,688
5 Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd. 1,641
6 Micron Technology, Inc. 1,561
7 Intel Corporation 1,549
8 Hitachi, Ltd. 1,271
9 Toshiba Corporation 1,258
10 Fujitsu Limited 1,154

Taken from
http://usa.canon.com/templatedata/AboutCanon/ciwcipatent.html
Click to expand...
A Patent provides legal protection of an invention for a fixed period of time in exchange for public disclosure. Although a high number of patents may help support innovation in camera design, this is not necessarily the case. One could innovat without any patents at all, by being the first to deliver to the marketplace a product that uses existing technology to support an alternative method of viewing and changing lenses. The Micro Four Thirds is actually an open standard and therefore without patents. Securing a large number of patents is usallly associated with a different startegy to keep invetions temporarily out of the public domain.
--
Erwin
 
This is not just historical minutiae.

The cameras I mentioned, especially the Olympus C2100UZ and the Canon Pro90is, along with the Sony FD91, did not only predate the FZ20 but could easily compete with it in what really counts most - results, at least up to 8" x 10". Operation and output from these cameras were ahead of their time, so to speak, and image quality exceptional. What really was their greatest characteristic was just how easy they facilitated getting quality images. There was so much fervor over the C2100UZ that the subject pretty much took over the Oly Talk forum for a year to a year and a half and many impressive photographs resulted.

Rick
aris14 said:
I will not doubt u and sure it's right what u say historically
speaking, but fz 20 is overall far better than its early and after
competitors even 18 months after firstly presented... and overall is
the key word here, no matter if this overall is hugely based on the
lens (after all the lens is more than half of any camera) followed by
the GUI, if not in reverse order for a serious percentage of users...
Click to expand...
 
Erwin Buske said:
The Micro Four Thirds is actually an open standard
and therefore without patents. Securing a large number of patents is
usallly associated with a different startegy to keep invetions
temporarily out of the public domain.
Click to expand...
I like Fourthirds and Microfourthirds, and I hate the patent system,
but Fourthirds and Microfourthirds is patented.
Fourthirds is a more open standard than Microfourthirds,
patent usage can be given away for free as it partially happened in Fourthirds

Martin F.

OlympusE330and2xPanasonicL10.

Typing errors are intended to provide a basis for global amusement.
 
my favorite early ultra zoom were the Minolta Z-series. with the flippy LCD, great continuous modes, auto boosting LCD and a bunch of other features. Plus, they looked really cool.

But- the Oly UZ's were the first very popular ones.
--

 
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