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Berge Bulbulian

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No one is forced to read any post. For me--I like to know why people buy certain equipment and why they do not buy them. Whenever I consider buying something, I research it carefully, reading all I can find on that product and then making a decision. In any event, I don't insult those who say things I don't agree with. Berge
 
Berge Bulbulian said:
No one is forced to read any post.
Click to expand...
With a subject of "Don't read" then I do consider myself forced to
read this post.
Berge Bulbulian said:
For me--I like to know why
people buy certain equipment and why they do not buy them.
Whenever I consider buying something, I research it carefully,
reading all I can find on that product and then making a decision.
In any event, I don't insult those who say things I don't agree
with. Berge
Click to expand...
And your point is ...... exactly?

--
---------------
Andrew.
 
I agree that some do go overboard in stating their opinion and sometimes take it way to far. But at the same time, they are entitled to have it and I would never change my opinion on that.

Why did you call your thread "don't read" . People clearly will and if you did not want them to you should have titled it "please read this".
Ah well, there you go.
 
I understand your point exactly Berge, People who post why they didn't by a Minolta in this forum are often criticized, and asked why they bothered to post, when those who respond in that way, could have just skipped it if they don't care for that kind of a posting. When evaluating what to buy I don't just want to read the pros for a particular camera, but why others chose something else.

Mike Smith
Berge Bulbulian said:
No one is forced to read any post. For me--I like to know why
people buy certain equipment and why they do not buy them.
Whenever I consider buying something, I research it carefully,
reading all I can find on that product and then making a decision.
In any event, I don't insult those who say things I don't agree
with. Berge
Click to expand...
 
mike smith70581 said:
I understand your point exactly Berge, People who post why they
didn't by a Minolta in this forum are often criticized, and asked
why they bothered to post, when those who respond in that way,
could have just skipped it if they don't care for that kind of a
posting. When evaluating what to buy I don't just want to read the
pros for a particular camera, but why others chose something else.
Click to expand...
Hooray, someone said it at last
 
Sorry to have mislabeled my post.

My point is that if you don't like a post, you don't have to read it, but some of us might like to read it. I do want to know why people buy a certain camera and why they don't.
 
I've bought my D7 last year, and in that time Oly E10, Fuji 6900 and Canon Pro90 (to me) are the closest competitor of D7.
Why not Oly E10?
The prize.

Why not Fuji6900?
If Minolta did not come out with D7, Fuji6900 will be my first DC.
Though it's less expensive than D7, but D7 have a lot features over 6900?

Why not Canon Pro90?
It is just 2M pixel.

How about the rest like Oly3030?

I want a real SLR or at least a SLR type, we are in the 2000, I want something looks featuristic. But they say D7 is ugly, well just between us, I realized that girls tense to smile to the one who is holding a silver camera.

Let me add also this, what if Sony F707 come out on the same day D7 was launched?

Though they are really good in tech. but to me they are not known for still camera. I've nothing against Sony but those companies who have been in tthe camera industry for so many years have a great/better understanding what a photographer is looking for, and they know what should an excellent camera should be.

Before buying D7, I ask myself, why D7? Minolta is new to digital camera, and from Phil's list of its (D7) weakness, make its very discouraging to buy it. And I'm very knew to photography.

Well coz ppl like "The Man" and Bryan Biggers who made the early splash. They tell diff. stories, and their photo samples are really encouraging. Thanks to these people, to this forum and to the Beast (D7) I'm now a much better photographer.
Berge Bulbulian said:
Sorry to have mislabeled my post.

My point is that if you don't like a post, you don't have to read
it, but some of us might like to read it. I do want to know why
people buy a certain camera and why they don't.
Click to expand...
 
Berge Bulbulian said:
No one is forced to read any post. For me--I like to know why
people buy certain equipment and why they do not buy them.
Whenever I consider buying something, I research it carefully,
reading all I can find on that product and then making a decision.
In any event, I don't insult those who say things I don't agree
with. Berge
Click to expand...
Berge --

Then read every forum on the site. There is no shortage of posts extolling the virtues of the camera someone decided to buy. They belong in the forums created to discuss those cameras.

Every forum on this site has posts that basically explain why the cameras the forums are about are no good, or didn't make the cut in someone's final decision. I have yet to see any point in any of them. Read what actual users of each camera have to say, try out the ones on your short list, and pick the one that works best for you. Take responsibility for making your own decisions. Nobody takes pictures exactly like you do or has exactly your expectaions for equipment, so why they decided to buy or not to buy one thing over another has no possible relevence to your decision.

I was seriously considering an E-10 when the D7 was announced. I didn't go tell the E-10 owners that I had decided not to buy their camera. It never occurred to me that they would be interested, and I'm sure they wouldn't have been, and would have resented my comments.

Sam in SF
 
Maybe if the person never participated in the forum prior to making thier decision, I would agree with you. But there are those who ask opinions of users in the various forums why they should choose one camera or another. Invariabley you get mostly flag waivers in each forum who are never going to suggest a camera other than the one they have chosen, even if they have no experience with others in the same category. If these people are going to offer advice, shouldn't they want to hear which particular camera was best suited for a particlar individual? Maybe they will learn something. If they choose not to, as Berge said, they don't have to read the thread. And as far as being resentful, for crying out loud these are camera forums, get over it, and be a little more tolerant, you'll live longer.

Mike Smith
SF Sam said:
Berge Bulbulian said:
No one is forced to read any post. For me--I like to know why
people buy certain equipment and why they do not buy them.
Whenever I consider buying something, I research it carefully,
reading all I can find on that product and then making a decision.
In any event, I don't insult those who say things I don't agree
with. Berge
Click to expand...
Berge --

Then read every forum on the site. There is no shortage of posts
extolling the virtues of the camera someone decided to buy. They
belong in the forums created to discuss those cameras.

Every forum on this site has posts that basically explain why the
cameras the forums are about are no good, or didn't make the cut in
someone's final decision. I have yet to see any point in any of
them. Read what actual users of each camera have to say, try out
the ones on your short list, and pick the one that works best for
you. Take responsibility for making your own decisions. Nobody
takes pictures exactly like you do or has exactly your expectaions
for equipment, so why they decided to buy or not to buy one thing
over another has no possible relevence to your decision.

I was seriously considering an E-10 when the D7 was announced. I
didn't go tell the E-10 owners that I had decided not to buy their
camera. It never occurred to me that they would be interested, and
I'm sure they wouldn't have been, and would have resented my
comments.

Sam in SF
Click to expand...
 
My father is a man of few words, however, on one of the occasions where he chose to impart some wisdom upon me he said "when you have to make a decision about something, listen to what EVERYONE has to say on the subject good and bad, and then make up your own mind"..... I remind myself of this frequently..... I think these forums are fore exchanging information, people need to stop being so anal about what forum people post in ("stop posting olympus comments in the minolta forum!" - ha ha ha) and stop jumping on others for posting negative comments (flames aside)...

if you want to politcal correctness move to California, I for one like a NY state of mind where everyone tells you exactly what they're thinking....

"just my opinion, I could be wrong "
  • Dennis Miller
Ron
 
mike smith said:
Maybe if the person never participated in the forum prior to making
thier decision, I would agree with you. But there are those who ask
opinions of users in the various forums why they should choose one
camera or another. Invariabley you get mostly flag waivers in each
forum who are never going to suggest a camera other than the one
they have chosen, even if they have no experience with others in
the same category. If these people are going to offer advice,
shouldn't they want to hear which particular camera was best suited
for a particlar individual? Maybe they will learn something. If
they choose not to, as Berge said, they don't have to read the
thread. And as far as being resentful, for crying out loud these
are camera forums, get over it, and be a little more tolerant,
you'll live longer.

Mike Smith
Click to expand...
I don't think you know enough about me to make judgements on my tolerance levels one way or another.

Actually, I wasn't whining. I was saying I don't see the point in posting about why one chose one camera over another in the "loser's" forum. It smacks of "Nyah nyah nyah" to me. I do see a point in threads like Kay's, where she had both cameras there and was trying to decide between the two, had specific questions to ask about the D7i and wanted to make comparisons between features and traits and others' experiences.

Posting that you decided not to get Camera X because you personally don't like one specific feature isn't helpful. It doesn't answer anyone's questions. It doesn't tell anyone whether that feature will be a problem or a help for anyone but the person posting. The thread that sparked this one was a statement that someone didn't like EVFs. ANY EVFs. On ANY digital camera. How does this help anyone make a decision for him/herself?

I don't ask people's advice when I'm looking for a new camera. I read a lot of specs, reviews, and user comments to narrow the field before handling the ones on my short list. Sometimes I ask a question if I don't see it covered in an existing thread, but I don't ask anyone if I should get this one over that one. No stranger is going to know better than I do what I need and whether any particular tool will work best for me, and absolutely, partisanship will almost always get in the way of people's recommendations, anyway.

OTOH, I have suggested to others cameras other than those I have owned/own, if I feel I understand their needs and expectations well enough to know that what I have is not going to meet their needs. I don't need people validating my choices by making the same ones. I have no problem with someone deciding an EVF cam is not for him/her -- I just don't see where that merits a big announcement. That's just grandstanding. OTOH, I wasn't one of those who posted flames in the other thread. This one is about the thing that I have an opinion on, so I voiced mine. That should be OK.

YMMV, and that's OK, too.

Sam in SF
 
RGOJR said:
if you want to politcal correctness move to California,
Click to expand...
Last time I checked, San Francisco was in California. Of course, "SF" could be read as "Santa Fe," I suppose...but I've never made a secret of where I live.
rgojr said:
I for one
like a NY state of mind where everyone tells you exactly what
they're thinking....
Click to expand...
I thought I just did say what I was thinking. G

It's not about Political Correctness. See my other response, here. I just tend to want to read user comments about the cameras they personally own, and the best place to do that is in the forums dedicated to those cameras because people aren't trying to defend anything -- they are honestly discussing the pros and cons, from their personal perspectives, of the cameras they already own, seeking aid and advice from others who also own the camera. It's more useful than posting "about Olys in the Minolta forum" because you don't get knee-jerk defensiveness or gratuitous sneers, you get honest suggestions and real life stories of workarounds, etc. If one is serious about making a choice, this matters. I don't expect to get much useful information about Canons or Olys or Nikons or Sonys from the Minolta forum, and vice versa.

I participate in a number of photography forums, most of them general rather than brand specific, most of them about photography in general, not just digital photography. Somehow we manage to avoid real Brand Name Wars, but as far as one forum is concerned only Nikon makes prosumer digital cameras -- it isn't that they compare brands, it's that the most vocal members wouldn't consider any other brand. The rest of the field might as well not exist for these foilks -- in fact, I'm not sure they know that other manufacturers make cameras in the same league as Nikon. G Discussion of other brands meets with blank incomprehension from pretty much everyone. I don't try to change their minds, I just go elsewhere when I have questions or concerns regarding my Minolta. If I want to know about the 5700, though, they're my guys. G

I think you might have read more into what I said than was there. I was taking the practical view on how to make an actual informed decision. Because, like your father, I believe in listening to everyone. I just prefer to listen to people who have real life experience with the thing I'm looking for information on. It's the nuts-and-bolts threads in the brand specific forums that tell the tale, not the partisan ravings of people who somehow feel they need to defend "their" camera against all comers.

Sam in SF
 
My reply wasn't directed at you/personally, it was directed at you/people in general..., your post just happened to be the last one I read before replying to the thread.
R
SF Sam said:
RGOJR said:
if you want to politcal correctness move to California,
Click to expand...
Last time I checked, San Francisco was in California. Of course,
"SF" could be read as "Santa Fe," I suppose...but I've never made a
secret of where I live.
SF Sam said:
I for one
like a NY state of mind where everyone tells you exactly what
they're thinking....
Click to expand...
I thought I just did say what I was thinking. G

It's not about Political Correctness. See my other response, here.
I just tend to want to read user comments about the cameras they
personally own, and the best place to do that is in the forums
dedicated to those cameras because people aren't trying to defend
anything -- they are honestly discussing the pros and cons, from
their personal perspectives, of the cameras they already own,
seeking aid and advice from others who also own the camera. It's
more useful than posting "about Olys in the Minolta forum" because
you don't get knee-jerk defensiveness or gratuitous sneers, you get
honest suggestions and real life stories of workarounds, etc. If
one is serious about making a choice, this matters. I don't expect
to get much useful information about Canons or Olys or Nikons or
Sonys from the Minolta forum, and vice versa.

I participate in a number of photography forums, most of them
general rather than brand specific, most of them about photography
in general, not just digital photography. Somehow we manage to
avoid real Brand Name Wars, but as far as one forum is concerned
only Nikon makes prosumer digital cameras -- it isn't that they
compare brands, it's that the most vocal members wouldn't
consider any other brand. The rest of the field might as well not
exist for these foilks -- in fact, I'm not sure they know that
other manufacturers make cameras in the same league as Nikon. G
Discussion of other brands meets with blank incomprehension from
pretty much everyone. I don't try to change their minds, I just go
elsewhere when I have questions or concerns regarding my Minolta.
If I want to know about the 5700, though, they're my guys. G

I think you might have read more into what I said than was there. I
was taking the practical view on how to make an actual informed
decision. Because, like your father, I believe in listening to
everyone. I just prefer to listen to people who have real life
experience with the thing I'm looking for information on. It's the
nuts-and-bolts threads in the brand specific forums that tell the
tale, not the partisan ravings of people who somehow feel they need
to defend "their" camera against all comers.

Sam in SF
Click to expand...
 
SF Sam said:
mike smith said:
Maybe if the person never participated in the forum prior to making
thier decision, I would agree with you. But there are those who ask
opinions of users in the various forums why they should choose one
camera or another. Invariabley you get mostly flag waivers in each
forum who are never going to suggest a camera other than the one
they have chosen, even if they have no experience with others in
the same category. If these people are going to offer advice,
shouldn't they want to hear which particular camera was best suited
for a particlar individual? Maybe they will learn something. If
they choose not to, as Berge said, they don't have to read the
thread. And as far as being resentful, for crying out loud these
are camera forums, get over it, and be a little more tolerant,
you'll live longer.

Mike Smith
Click to expand...
I don't think you know enough about me to make judgements on my
tolerance levels one way or another.
Sam in SF
Click to expand...
I am not going to reply to the rest of your thead because I've expressed my viewpoint in my previous posts and I respect your opinion even if I disagree. But as far as my making a judgement on YOUR tolerance level I didn't, rather I responded to the generalised statement you made as to others being resentful if you posted you bought a Minolta instead of an Olympus in the Olympus forum. I don't know at what level it would bother you. There are certain types of posts I don't care for either, for example as a participant in the Sony forum, I don't care for all of the Sears price match postings, some of which because of how it's done (the price matching) I consider unethical. I simply choose not to read those posts and not let it ruin my day.

Mike Smith

Mike Smith
 
It's getting a bit heavy guy's, i'm not going to read this thread anymore. ;-)

Coopes

http://www.markcooper.me.uk
RGOJR said:
SF Sam said:
RGOJR said:
if you want to politcal correctness move to California,
Click to expand...
Last time I checked, San Francisco was in California. Of course,
"SF" could be read as "Santa Fe," I suppose...but I've never made a
secret of where I live.
rgojr said:
I for one
like a NY state of mind where everyone tells you exactly what
they're thinking....
Click to expand...
I thought I just did say what I was thinking. G

It's not about Political Correctness. See my other response, here.
I just tend to want to read user comments about the cameras they
personally own, and the best place to do that is in the forums
dedicated to those cameras because people aren't trying to defend
anything -- they are honestly discussing the pros and cons, from
their personal perspectives, of the cameras they already own,
seeking aid and advice from others who also own the camera. It's
more useful than posting "about Olys in the Minolta forum" because
you don't get knee-jerk defensiveness or gratuitous sneers, you get
honest suggestions and real life stories of workarounds, etc. If
one is serious about making a choice, this matters. I don't expect
to get much useful information about Canons or Olys or Nikons or
Sonys from the Minolta forum, and vice versa.

I participate in a number of photography forums, most of them
general rather than brand specific, most of them about photography
in general, not just digital photography. Somehow we manage to
avoid real Brand Name Wars, but as far as one forum is concerned
only Nikon makes prosumer digital cameras -- it isn't that they
compare brands, it's that the most vocal members wouldn't
consider any other brand. The rest of the field might as well not
exist for these foilks -- in fact, I'm not sure they know that
other manufacturers make cameras in the same league as Nikon. G
Discussion of other brands meets with blank incomprehension from
pretty much everyone. I don't try to change their minds, I just go
elsewhere when I have questions or concerns regarding my Minolta.
If I want to know about the 5700, though, they're my guys. G

I think you might have read more into what I said than was there. I
was taking the practical view on how to make an actual informed
decision. Because, like your father, I believe in listening to
everyone. I just prefer to listen to people who have real life
experience with the thing I'm looking for information on. It's the
nuts-and-bolts threads in the brand specific forums that tell the
tale, not the partisan ravings of people who somehow feel they need
to defend "their" camera against all comers.

Sam in SF
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark_cooper
 
The comparison post was so helpful that Jason came back to
participate in it. I think that pretty much sums up the
argument against!
Coopes said:
Coopes

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark_cooper
Berge Bulbulian said:
No one is forced to read any post. For me--I like to know why
people buy certain equipment and why they do not buy them.
Whenever I consider buying something, I research it carefully,
reading all I can find on that product and then making a decision.
In any event, I don't insult those who say things I don't agree
with. Berge
Click to expand...
--
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark_cooper
Click to expand...
 
Torvik said:
I've bought my D7 last year, and in that time Oly E10, Fuji 6900
and Canon Pro90 (to me) are the closest competitor of D7.
Why not Oly E10?
The prize.

Why not Fuji6900?
If Minolta did not come out with D7, Fuji6900 will be my first DC.
Though it's less expensive than D7, but D7 have a lot features over
6900?

Why not Canon Pro90?
It is just 2M pixel.

How about the rest like Oly3030?
I want a real SLR or at least a SLR type, we are in the 2000, I
want something looks featuristic. But they say D7 is ugly, well
just between us, I realized that girls tense to smile to the one
who is holding a silver camera.

Let me add also this, what if Sony F707 come out on the same day D7
was launched?
Though they are really good in tech. but to me they are not known
for still camera. I've nothing against Sony but those companies who
have been in tthe camera industry for so many years have a
great/better understanding what a photographer is looking for, and
they know what should an excellent camera should be.

Before buying D7, I ask myself, why D7? Minolta is new to digital
camera, and from Phil's list of its (D7) weakness, make its very
discouraging to buy it. And I'm very knew to photography.
Well coz ppl like "The Man" and Bryan Biggers who made the early
splash. They tell diff. stories, and their photo samples are really
encouraging. Thanks to these people, to this forum and to the
Beast (D7) I'm now a much better photographer.
Click to expand...
Torvik - I agree with you fully. In the begining the D7 was not my initial choice. The more I read in this forum, the more i liked the sound of the D7. I have had mine almost 3 months now and I have taken over 2000 photos. It had been great fun re-discovering photography and I would not give up my D7 for anything. I am throughtly in live with it. Many Thanks to Bryan and the MANY other people who post here.

Chuck

My on line albums
http://www.hpphoto.com/home/viewownerdir.asp?owner=chuckstr89134

and

http://www.pbase.com/chuckstr89134
 
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