"Rules are made to be broken"

Even if English is my native language, I will try to explain why I think the statement in the title of this thread is not valid regarding the challenge in this forum. A few persons are asking me to back off. Maybe the wisest thing for me would be just that, but I shall make this last effort.

There are many types of rules. One category is "Rules of gardening", "Rules for losing weight" and "Rules of photography". A couple of rules in the last category he would the Rule of two-thirds, another rule that says you should never crop a human being at his/her joints, or the rule that says that a moving object (humans, animals, vehicles) should be placed so that it moved towards the center of the image. These "rules" are more guidelines for beginners, than real "rules". They are rules of the thumb.

To create certain effects, breaking some of these rules will often make a more interesting image. I will show you what I mean with one of my own images:



In this image the bird is flying out of the picture. That makes it seem to want to move away from the humans, which is one thing I like about it. So, I broke one of the photography rules.

Then you have other kind of rules. "Rules of the Air", "Rules of the Road" and "Rules for the different sports". If you break the first two sets of rules, it may have fatal results. I guess many car accidents would have been avoided if the drivers followed the rules.

The last set of rules are not that important. The rules for the different sports are created to give the competitors as equal opportunity to win as possible. If you break them, which happens all the time, the referee will punish you (if he sees it). The rules are made, at least in most sports, to create "fair play".

That is also what the rules in the Challenge are for. Here, as in sports, fair play should be a principle. But of course, there will always be people who try to bend or break the rules in their favour. In Challenge there are no prizes, only honour. And I am disappointed that someone would break the rules just to be "honoured". However, reading some of the posts here, I will not be very surprised if that happened. I am talking about intended break of the rules, of course.
--
Raymond
http://www.bildebank.com

Raymond Wardenaer said:

I guess many car
accidents would have been avoided if the drivers followed the rules.

Click to expand...

Um, nearly every single car crash that has ever happened would have been avoided if people followed the rules.

As for your assertion. If you don't play by the rules, then you didn't win the game you entered. You 'won' something else altogether, so why enter in the first place if you didn't want to play the game offered?

--
Chris, Broussard, LA

I would say that the legless world war 2 fighter ace Douglas Bader made the most pertinent statement about rules.
dave

dave said:

I would say that the legless world war 2 fighter ace Douglas Bader
made the most pertinent statement about rules.
dave
--

Click to expand...

I believe you are incorrect, in your use of SIR (by the way) Douglas Bader as an example of whatever you are trying to justify. As far as I am aware, SIR Douglas did not set out to demonstrate that the rules were to be broken, but that there were no rules stating that a double amputee was not allowed to fly, & given that there were no rules to the effect, ability alone should be the criteria. What he did demonstrate was that peoples' perceptions were not always accurate & that ability should not be limited by such.

A620er said:

dave said:

I would say that the legless world war 2 fighter ace Douglas Bader
made the most pertinent statement about rules.
dave
--

Click to expand...

I believe you are incorrect, in your use of SIR (by the way) Douglas
Bader as an example of whatever you are trying to justify. As far as
I am aware, SIR Douglas did not set out to demonstrate that the rules
were to be broken, but that there were no rules stating that a double
amputee was not allowed to fly, & given that there were no rules to
the effect, ability alone should be the criteria. What he did
demonstrate was that peoples' perceptions were not always accurate &
that ability should not be limited by such.

Click to expand...

I new Douglas personally and played golf with him many times. he hated the use of his title and his statement about fools had nothing whatsoever to do with the MOD's attempts to stop him flying and was actually made some time after he was back in active service, so don't come the smart ar*e with me

dave

I think the way to approach this is that it is "Taken on good faith" that EXIF data is un-mollested, I can imagine it will be tempting to For instance alter the date to enter the sky-scapes competition, if you have a glorious sky-scape taken last week, It would be against the sprit of the competition which is literally a "Challenge" to go out and shoot, not about sorting through your old pictures.

I have a nighttime bridge picture taken by standing the camera on a dustbin, Rather than a tripod, were it not for the fact it was done using an SLR, I think I would have entered it.

You have to go along in a way that you are comfortable with, sure there will be transgression from the rules that are concealed, it unavoidable, My guess is the vast majority will enter and stick to the rules otherwise what's the point
Atto
--

'The Pirates code is more what you'd call 'guidelines' than actual rules, Miss Turner.
Welcome aboard the Black Pearl,

In competition, you should always try not to break any rules, certainly not deliberately and not inadvertently either if you can do so. If you're not sure of a rule, ASK, and then go ahead and enter with a clear conscience.

As for the "rules" of photography, they are just guidelines. However, as rules of thumb go, they are worth learning and worth learning WHY they were elevated to the status of "rules" in the first place, not so you NEVER transgress but so that you know when it is appropriate to "transgress".

dave said:

A620er said:

dave said:

I would say that the legless world war 2 fighter ace Douglas Bader
made the most pertinent statement about rules.
dave
--

Click to expand...

I believe you are incorrect, in your use of SIR (by the way) Douglas
Bader as an example of whatever you are trying to justify. As far as
I am aware, SIR Douglas did not set out to demonstrate that the rules
were to be broken, but that there were no rules stating that a double
amputee was not allowed to fly, & given that there were no rules to
the effect, ability alone should be the criteria. What he did
demonstrate was that peoples' perceptions were not always accurate &
that ability should not be limited by such.

Click to expand...

I new Douglas personally and played golf with him many times. he
hated the use of his title and his statement about fools had nothing
whatsoever to do with the MOD's attempts to stop him flying and was
actually made some time after he was back in active service, so don't
come the smart ar*e with me

dave

--

Click to expand...

Well it's very clear which one of the two catagories you believe you belong to!

As an artist i really do not believe rules. There is no such thing as rule, its all in mind.

your photo is very good composition.

--
one among others

I agree with you 100%.

Breaking photographic rules is not the same as breaking motoring rules: no one gets killed for not using the rule of thirds etc.

Rules should be seen more as conventions. Use them - don't use them - see which ones work within the context of your image and creative intentions.

bikinchris said:

Um, nearly every single car crash that has ever happened would have
been avoided if people followed the rules.

Click to expand...

What has that got to do with photography - a camera doesn't kill

It was also in reference to the "rule of thirds". The thread was like the fable of the three blind men trying to describe an elephant; everyone had a different view and it got contentious.

What I got out of it is that all rules are not created equal. Some are loose to be followed only as a guide. Others are absolute law like the rule to drive on the right side of the street in the USA.

Don't get wrapped around the axle about it. The only thing common about the discussion was the word, "rule".

--mamallama

Ray you are intentionally misinterpreting what another poster has said, quoting so out of context that it has become absurd.

The phrase you mention was used •nowhere near• the way you are using it; yet you start a new thread.....maybe you just want the silly privilege of having the last word?

Give it a break already!

Nope, my quote only concerns rule following. But many people think that if they just go a little faster or run that light, it won't hurt anyone. The most common cause of death in the US for people under 45 years of age is failure to follow rules that seem to be inconvenient. Traffic law.

I also find it intersting how a drivers behaviour in traffic directly correlates to just how honest and trustworthy they really are. People who don't follow traffic law don't follow other rules either. duh.

As you undoubtedly read, someone asked what would happen if people followed traffic law? I answered that question. Why does that bother you?

washyshots said:

washyshots said:

Um, nearly every single car crash that has ever happened would have
been avoided if people followed the rules.

Click to expand...

What has that got to do with photography - a camera doesn't kill

Click to expand...

--
Chris, Broussard, LA

You already posted this in the ongoing "challenges beta - full rules" thread, not sure why you reposted it in a new thread but whatever.

OK so now this is puzzling, you said (last para):

"And I am disappointed that someone would break the rules just to be "honoured". However, reading some of the posts here, I will not be very surprised if that happened. I am talking about intended break of the rules, of course".

You talk of 'intended break of the rules of course' which is rather bizarre. How could you possibly know? This is why we have juries in civilised societies, there is a reasonable chance they may convict on the evidence rather than on idle or malicious speculation. Also, the 'intended break of the rules' is wonderfully resonant of 'thought crimes', rather than real ones..........

As for the 'rules are made to be broken' thing that you so disagree with. Well, the reality is that with one specific exception no one ever used the expression in connection with the DPR photo competitions . It was used by different people to express themselves at various times in the thread on views of how society functions , or to express their attitudes to the 'rules' of photography. It was not used to encourage people to cheat.

One person did point out how easy it was to circumvent the rules of the DPR photo competition, yes his original post was open to different interpretations and yes, he was challenged on it. In his responses he made it quite clear more than that he was not advocating cheating in the DPR competitions and that frankly is where it should have ended.

Everyone is entitled to their point of view. If you find a suprising number of people disagree with you, it may well be because they do not really appreciate being told what to think.

--
Shay son of Che

'I was gambling in Havana, I took a little risk'.

• Warren Zevon

Its easy to jump on the "up the down stair case" cause. And sometimes its good to break rules; surely some of the crappiest famous photographs I've seen, have broken rules - and its still remains a mystery to me why they are great photographs.

But a prof I admired in grad school once had this rule on his door - "They said it couldn't be done, I proved them right." The reason I remember this line so vividly is that I wrote a paper comparing two concepts in philosophy and psychology, I shouldn't have done it but I did, but it couldn't be done.

--
Happy New Year.
Rationally I have no hope, irrationally I believe in miracles.
Joni Mitchell

--Aside from the rather nice 'artsy' photograph, this is the strangest thread I've ever read. Senseless. It's no wonder we have wars.
Tom



http://www.flickr.com/photos/provocative/
http://storiesontheweb.blogspot.com/

and ususaly get it. There is LOTS of room for bad photography even by following ALL the rules.

It's Ok to break a rule once that rule has been mastered, but few of us are nearly as talented as we like to think.
--
STOP Global Stasis! Change is good!

Now that you've judged the quality of my typing, take a look at my photos. . .
http://www.photo.net/photos/GlenBarrington

And my non Photo blog:
http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-Qe0Iq3g2d6ML3IynXl.Q2i5CPe6UaA--?cq=1