G1 EVF

Posted this on the forums at wetpixel..com in regards to the EVF on the G1. Thought maybe someone reading this forum might find some value in it.

Decided to check out the "electronic viewfinder" as an Optometrist.

So I went down to Sammy's and spent an hour with the camera and one of their excellent staff.

A bit of background on camera optics.

The image through the viewfinder on a SLR is focused at optical infinity. If your distance vision is properly corrected you see the image clearly.

Focusing on a LCD is another matter. It takes a lot of accommodating to focus on one. Even the best ones have a resolution that sucks in comparison with a decent optical viewfinder making the focus that much harder.

If you are over 50 you can't do it. No matter how perfect your distance vision is. You have to use your reading prescription. This is the dreaded presbyopia. Your reading prescription has to be focused at the correct distance and has to be in a position that you can actually see through it to view your LCD screen.

Had to laugh at the poster who has "perfect vision due to their LASIK surgery" Well, no. Lasik, if you don't get the blue light special, can focus your eyes for any particular focal distance. If your under 45 and the lasik is focused for optical infinity then you can see all distances well. When you get over 50, though you won't see anything up close without a reading prescription. You could have one eye focused close and the other far away. You have to pick where up close you want that eye fixed and there are other complications to doing so.

The summary of all this is it can be hard to see an LCD (which is what an EVF is) if you are over 50.

So can you see the EVF on the Pano G1?

In a word yes. The EVF has a diopter dial that goes +4 to -4. I shot with each of my eyes. One had a contact lens focused at distance. By adjusting the diopter dial I was able to see the viewfinder clearly and shoot the camera. The other eye had a bifocal contact lens in it. This lens works well for computers, gauges and such. But it doesn't focus well on LCD screens if you hold them too close. With a different adjustment of the diopter dial I was once again able to see the EVF clearly on the G1.

The LCD or EVF on the G1 shows you where the camera is focused. It appears to me you should be able to shoot this camera with your distance vision if you are over 50. You should of course test the camera for yourself hands on. I did not shoot and print out any photos.

I would still prefer an optical viewfinder. I got an auxiliary voigtlander optical viewfinder for my LX3. It slips into the standard hotshoe on the top of the LX3 and is very compact.

Anyway if you don't want to read all the above and you are over 50: the Panasonic G1 with it's EVF appears to function fine without needing your reading glasses.

--
Dave Burroughs, Nikon D2X, Subal housing, DS125

Life is a beach and then you dive. http://web.mac.com/daveburroughs/iWeb/Site%204/Welcome.html

--
http://web.mac.com/daveburroughs/iWeb/Site%204/Welcome.html

Beat Army!

davephdv said:

... Anyway if you don't want to read all the above and you are over 50:
the Panasonic G1 with it's EVF appears to function fine without
needing your reading glasses.

Click to expand...

LOL ... I could have told you that. ;-)

My simplistic explanation is that the EVF has enough diopter control that I can adjust it to suit my eyesight perfectly. I have to adjust it differently when I'm wearing my computer-continuum working glasses or daily use progressives. (I'm 54 years old and have been wearing glasses all my life since grammar school.)

How it works, and why, is an interesting technical detail.

The G1's EVF works better for me in obtaining accurate focus with short-focal-length, manual focus lenses than any optical viewfinder I've used, including any 35mm or medium format SLR viewfinder with optical focusing aids or Leica M rangefinders.

Godfrey

I am very myopic and "of an age" that I have progressive lenses and I have no trouble with EVFs. I do take my glasses off for the LCD, which is maybe why I rarely use an LCD. I need no adjustment to the eyepiece.

I much prefer EVF to an optical viewfinder. I not only see the "view", I see the exposure, I see all of the things the camera is telling me, etc. I use it for fine tuning exposure.

I do agree it would be best if people try them out, but if you come from the other Panasonics with EVF, I think it's only better.

The glasses problem is light between my face and the glasses. I can't take mine off because it would be off and on off and on because I can't see well enough to FIND the thing to take a picture of without my glasses.

Yes, I tried contacts when I was young. I'm not the contact lens type.

davephdv said:

I would still prefer an optical viewfinder. I got an auxiliary
voigtlander optical viewfinder for my LX3. It slips into the standard
hotshoe on the top of the LX3 and is very compact.

Click to expand...

I think the problem nowadays is that many OVF's are a mere shadow of their former self, many think that an E420 is typical OVF..it's far from it.

I have had great fun with MF SLR's for decades ago, and all have had massive, clear and bright viewfinders. Add to that MF is very easy with a split image screen..

I found the G1 VF pretty good, but compared to those beasts, nah...nowhere near as nice ;-)

Dave

Assuming you have perfect distance vision and you are using the G1 as a complete presbyope can you guess at the approximate diopter adjustment you find that works?
+2 ... ??, is the adjustment range to +4 adequate?

Thanks

John (not a G1 owner --- yet )

Barry Fitzgerald said:

davephdv said:

I would still prefer an optical viewfinder. I got an auxiliary
voigtlander optical viewfinder for my LX3. It slips into the standard
hotshoe on the top of the LX3 and is very compact.

Click to expand...

I think the problem nowadays is that many OVF's are a mere shadow of
their former self, many think that an E420 is typical OVF..it's far
from it.

Click to expand...

Yes, why is my E-410's OVF far worse than my OM1's - is that 35 years' progress?

Mike
--
OM1, FZ8, F20, E-410 (just)

As a guess about a +3. But, it's not important.

You just look through the EVF and spin the knob until it the EVF display is in focus. Very easy and quick to perform.
--
http://web.mac.com/daveburroughs/iWeb/Site%204/Welcome.html

Beat Army!

Giving this a second thought. There must be an optical system incorporated into the EVF. The ideal focus for that system would be optical infinity. Meaning no accommodative demand on the user. The same as a SLR. It might not be possible to do this from a manufacturing standpoint.

Thus I would guess that the ideal diopter adjustment would be zero. Assuming your distance correction is zero.
--

http://web.mac.com/daveburroughs/iWeb/Site%204/Welcome.html

Beat Army!

What you say about the G1's EVF holds true for other EVF cameras as well. I started digital photography with a Canon S3 because it had a diopter adjustable EVF and I was well over 65 at the time. I like 'live view' but can't see tiny LCD screens clearly enough to do serious photography. For various reasons, I don't like DSLRs, so EVF cameras is where it's at for me.
--
Regards, Morton

Obviously, you didn't read what I wrote above:

"The G1's EVF works better for me in obtaining accurate focus with short-focal-length, manual focus lenses than any optical viewfinder I've used, including any 35mm or medium format SLR viewfinder with optical focusing aids or Leica M rangefinders."

It's not as high resolution, and certainly nothing beats the responsiveness of the speed of light, but as a tool for accurate, critical, manual focusing , there's little to beat it.

By the way, I have my Pentax 645 right here next to the G1 and I'm comparing the viewfinders and my ability to accurately focus a 75mm f/2.8 lens with the 645 vs a Nikkor 20mm f/3.5 lens on the G1.

The G1 wins, hands down.

G

Barry Fitzgerald said:

I think the problem nowadays is that many OVF's are a mere shadow of
their former self, many think that an E420 is typical OVF..it's far
from it.

I have had great fun with MF SLR's for decades ago, and all have had
massive, clear and bright viewfinders. Add to that MF is very easy
with a split image screen..

I found the G1 VF pretty good, but compared to those beasts,
nah...nowhere near as nice ;-)

Click to expand...

I thought the viewfinder worked well. But it is in no way as good as manual focusing with the optical viewfinder on my D2X.

I not criticizing the camera or viewfinder. I was very impressed with how well the camera and viewfinder worked. I just don't think it compares to a good SLR.

For someone who wants a smaller camera it might be a much better choice than even the best consumer digicams. Such as the LX3. A camera I like a lot.
--
http://web.mac.com/daveburroughs/iWeb/Site%204/Welcome.html

Beat Army!

davephdv said:

I thought the viewfinder worked well. But it is in no way as good as
manual focusing with the optical viewfinder on my D2X.

Click to expand...

I'm content to disagree with you.

I've used the D2X. I can see the image go in and out of focus more accurately with the G1 ... with the same lens (my Nikkor 20mm f/3.5 AI). It's my opinion so no bloodshed, eh? ;-)

G

I presume you mean you can focus better with the G1 with the magnification feature. If so I agree with you. It beats absolutely anything else. I will say that the old film MF slr's split image screens made it really easy in the old days as well. Why don't they have those anymore as an option?

Godfrey said:

davephdv said:

I thought the viewfinder worked well. But it is in no way as good as
manual focusing with the optical viewfinder on my D2X.

Click to expand...

I'm content to disagree with you.

I've used the D2X. I can see the image go in and out of focus more
accurately with the G1 ... with the same lens (my Nikkor 20mm f/3.5
AI). It's my opinion so no bloodshed, eh? ;-)

G

Click to expand...

--
Steve Jacobs

Manual focusing is great on the G1, IMO. The ability to easily and quickly magnify the image 5x or 10x for critical focusing through the high resolution EVF is wonderful.

davephdv said:

I thought the viewfinder worked well. But it is in no way as good as
manual focusing with the optical viewfinder on my D2X.

I not criticizing the camera or viewfinder. I was very impressed with
how well the camera and viewfinder worked. I just don't think it
compares to a good SLR.

For someone who wants a smaller camera it might be a much better
choice than even the best consumer digicams. Such as the LX3. A
camera I like a lot.

Click to expand...

Stevejac said:

I will say that the old film MF slr's split image
screens made it really easy in the old days as well. Why don't they
have those anymore as an option?

Click to expand...

Well, you can get them as aftermarket items. But the kids these days, they're all about the AF. Heck, most of 'em don't even care much about a viewfinder at all, never mind split-image screens, they're so conditioned to looking at a screen. They don't know what they're missing...

Tim
--
http://mainetim.zenfolio.com/

Yes.

Personally, I never liked the split image rangefinders and other focusing aids in my SLRs; I found them a distraction. I always went for a matt focusing screen.

The nicest thing about the G1's magnification is that it's there when you need it and not in the way when you don't.

Godfrey

Stevejac said:

Godfrey said:

I've used the D2X. I can see the image go in and out of focus more
accurately with the G1 ... with the same lens (my Nikkor 20mm f/3.5
AI). It's my opinion so no bloodshed, eh? ;-)

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I'm getting quite far-sighted these days and I have no problems with the EVF on my CoolPix8400 with my glasses on. Trying to view the LCD on the back of the camera is a different story and requires adjusting my glasses down my nose or moving it far away.

Seems to me that the OVFs and EVFs are optically set at infinity, so far-sightedness is not a problem. The diopter adjustment is for when your glasses are bad or your sight it bad w/o glasses. I'm at a -6 diopter so most built in diopter adjustments don't work for me.

I handled the G1 for a few minutes at the local Cameras West here in Seattle and I thought it was a definite improvement over my CP8400, which, although not bad, was a bit too small at times. I'd have no problem using the G1 EVF (when I decide to buy one - lack of lenses is keeping me from doing it) and kind of/sort of think it was equivalent to using my D80, which ain't bad at all.

• John

--

Godfrey said:

"The G1's EVF works better for me in obtaining accurate focus with short-focal-length, manual focus lenses than any optical viewfinder I've used, including any 35mm or medium format SLR viewfinder with optical focusing aids or Leica M rangefinders."

Click to expand...

Godfrey said:

By the way, I have my Pentax 645 right here next to the G1 and I'm comparing the viewfinders and my ability to accurately focus a 75mm f/2.8 lens with the 645 vs a Nikkor 20mm f/3.5 lens on the G1.

Click to expand...

Hi Godfrey-

I was hoping that this was true. My old eyes need the help and have been waiting for an EVIL since I first heard of them. (didn't you suggest another name?)

Regards - John W

--Thanks for that answer Goddfrey. I'm also 54 and have had glasses since grammar school

davephdv said:

If you are over 50 you can't do it. No matter how perfect your
distance vision is. You have to use your reading prescription. This
is the dreaded presbyopia. Your reading prescription has to be
focused at the correct distance and has to be in a position that you
can actually see through it to view your LCD screen.

Click to expand...

Are you absolutely sure about this?

When I reached the advanced age of 35 I started to develop myopia (short-sightedness) rather than presbyopia (long-sightedness). I asked my optician whether anything was seriously wrong as I too then believed the urban myth that everyone goes long-sighted as they age. He told me that this was a myth and that a substantial number of people do what I have done and go short-sighted as they get older.

A consequence is that using the dioptre correction on the G1 I can see the EVF perfectly no matter where the lens is focussed. And I am now 61!