Resolution vs. print size vs. reading distance

Darren Young

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Here's a good one to consider: A while back I came across a "guide" to the necessary megapixel resolution for a given print size (I think it was posted on Ophoto's page) that had some interesting numbers. The chart started out at 640x480 as minimum for a good 4"x6" print, and went up to 1560x1280 or something like that (I don't have the chart with me right now) for an 8"x10" print. So far, so good. But then the chart continues to 11x14, 16x20 and 20x24 -- and the minimum resolution stays at the 1560x1280.....

Didn't make sense until I remembered something from art school called "reading distance", meaning the normal distance at which one would view anything from a magazine page to a billboard. For example, a poster looks pretty good from across the room; but walk up to it and look at a 4x6 section of it and the quality ain't too thrilling. However, that's not how you would look at ("view") posters -- they're designed to be looked at from that far of a reading distance. So now back to our hero with his trusty Uzi; he shoots a really great picture that he wants to blow up to 16x20 or whatever and hang on the wall -- is that why the resolution #'s on the chart stayed the same past 8x10, which, coincidentally, is usually the biggest image a person can comfortably take in at normal reading distance (as in reading a piece of paper)? Might be the reason our everyday typing paper is universally around 8.5"x11", and that's usually used vertically, i.e. the normal human reading distance. I tried playing around with some regular photo prints, and found that, lo & behold, when I was looking at an 11x14, I started holding it at arms' length. Pretty interesting, try it out for yourselves and see what happens.

So here's the $64K question: How do you experienced digital shooters out there feel about this resolution system? I've heard a lot of comments on this forum about a 2.1mp Oly being great for prints "up to 8x10", but has anyone got experience with going past that? Whaddya all think about the reading distance factor?

(This should be good for about 10,000 responses! :-))...) Thanks in advance > > Darren
 
I think you have a point about viewing distance, but I have a 2.1 mp camera and print 8x10s. These can be viewed at very close distance without seeing visible faults. For an experiment I have printed one twice this size on plain paper and it was good enough that I considered printing it on photo paper. I think from 6ft away it would look extremely good.

Brian
 
I think you have a point about viewing distance, but I have a 2.1
mp camera and print 8x10s. These can be viewed at very close
distance without seeing visible faults. For an experiment I have
printed one twice this size on plain paper and it was good enough
that I considered printing it on photo paper. I think from 6ft
away it would look extremely good.
Brian, if & when you do a photo print of that experiment at 16x20, I'll be interested in your feedback. Thanks for the response.

I may beat you to it, as I have a neat photo of Mammoth Mtn. (ski area in CA) that I want to blow up to that size for the friends who own the condo we stayed in. It'll probably be a couple or 3 weeks before I get can around to it, tho... > Darren
 
If you display it in a way where it typically won't be viewed close up, then by all means 2.1MP will go beyond 8x10. It also depends on the subject as well. If your subject is a mass of leaves that don't have very many pixels each, when they get blown up they'll turn into a glob of green. Portraits typically blow up well.

The problem is that it becomes a toss up as to whether or not they'll turn out well and sizes larger than 8x10 are not cheap.

Anyway in theory I agree with you that as the prints get larger you typically stand back a little further to see the whole print at once and as you do this you don't notice the blurring that takes place as things get enlarged.
Here's a good one to consider: A while back I came across a "guide"
to the necessary megapixel resolution for a given print size (I
think it was posted on Ophoto's page) that had some interesting
numbers. The chart started out at 640x480 as minimum for a good
4"x6" print, and went up to 1560x1280 or something like that (I
don't have the chart with me right now) for an 8"x10" print. So
far, so good. But then the chart continues to 11x14, 16x20 and
20x24 -- and the minimum resolution stays at the 1560x1280.....

Didn't make sense until I remembered something from art school
called "reading distance", meaning the normal distance at which one
would view anything from a magazine page to a billboard. For
example, a poster looks pretty good from across the room; but walk
up to it and look at a 4x6 section of it and the quality ain't too
thrilling. However, that's not how you would look at ("view")
posters -- they're designed to be looked at from that far of a
reading distance. So now back to our hero with his trusty Uzi; he
shoots a really great picture that he wants to blow up to 16x20 or
whatever and hang on the wall -- is that why the resolution #'s on
the chart stayed the same past 8x10, which, coincidentally, is
usually the biggest image a person can comfortably take in at
normal reading distance (as in reading a piece of paper)? Might be
the reason our everyday typing paper is universally around
8.5"x11", and that's usually used vertically, i.e. the normal human
reading distance. I tried playing around with some regular photo
prints, and found that, lo & behold, when I was looking at an
11x14, I started holding it at arms' length. Pretty interesting,
try it out for yourselves and see what happens.

So here's the $64K question: How do you experienced digital
shooters out there feel about this resolution system? I've heard a
lot of comments on this forum about a 2.1mp Oly being great for
prints "up to 8x10", but has anyone got experience with going past
that? Whaddya all think about the reading distance factor?

(This should be good for about 10,000 responses! :-))...)
Thanks in advance > > Darren
 
So, I just (finally!) got around to ordering some prints to test this theory -- just received the 8x10 of a mountain scene shot at sunset-ish time of day, and under an 8x magnifier, can't see any pixillation or anything. Aside from some minor artifacting down in the deep shadow areas, the dang print, shot at SHQ with a C2100 at max res, looks just as I'd expect from a good 35mm film-based print.

NOW comes the true test: I have a 20"x30" print of the same file on the way, from the same printer (Ofoto -- they had a sale...) and, as soon as I get the thing in, will post the final word on the experiment.

Stay tuned!
'When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.' -- Hunter S. Thompson
 
I have printed out several portraits at 12 X 18 from the C2100UZ shot in HQ with my Canon S9000 and they came out absolutely beautiful. Even surprised me. I make my portraits soft to start with but was extremely pleased with the results. At a distrance of 2/3 feet no degradation of quality can be seen.

BillyBob
 
Brian, if & when you do a photo print of that experiment at 16x20,
I'll be interested in your feedback. Thanks for the response.
I may beat you to it, as I have a neat photo of Mammoth Mtn. (ski
area in CA) that I want to blow up to that size for the friends who
own the condo we stayed in. It'll probably be a couple or 3 weeks
before I get can around to it, tho... > Darren
Well, I've printed some 11x14s from my Uzi photos. From a few feet, they look pretty good. You can still tell that they're a little soft, but just slightly from a distance. If you get closer, though -- far enough to see the whole print, but still closer, like on the wall behind your desk -- they don't look so hot.

With the right subject you can pull it off ... but I tend not go go larger than 8x10 with my Uzi images.
 
(This should be good for about 10,000 responses! :-))...)
Thanks in advance > > Darren
--
http://www.daryl.com/2002 - photo calendar
http://www.pbase.com/daryl - pbase supporter

Olympus C4040
Technically,

Though the question is not related to any brand or model, the camera mentioned was a Uzi (2.1).

I can't speak from experience with printing large sizes, but I have cropped pics from my Uzi and printed them at 8x10... they came out great. A lot of it is the subject and conditions of where and how the image is viewed.

If you had the ability to hang a 16x20 high on a wall where someone would have to stand 8-feet away to get a good view, sure it will look good. Just know that your image is hanging as a "framed poster" and not a fine photograph. If you want to use it to decorate, share a memorable pose... fine, but I wouldn't hold it as an exibit of your photography skills.

Regardless of how it looks from a far, if you can't get up close and look at it with the same appreciation, I would find it hard to be proud to have up. How to do tell someone to look at the picture you took but keep them 5-feet away? It may look good from a far, but its hard to admire a photo from a far. Maybe hang the poster high and have a 5x7 handy for people who really want to look? I dunno

Matt
--
  • Matt
 
daryl.com wrote:
TECHINCALLY, he didnt mentioned the UZI, Forrest did.
Say it 10 times fast and see what happens... ;> )

They're all just cameras, regardless of the name...some are more
popular, not because of the name...

Bob
-If you think of the C-2100UZ as in gun terms (UZI) the E-100rs should be the UZI. and the 2100 a 38 revolver.
E-100rs,A-200,2100,Canon,Nikon,Casio,Sony
 
So, the 20x30 print from Ofoto arrived yesterday, and the verdict is (insert drum roll here):

It looks arffing bee-YOO-tee-ful!!

As long as you're not holding it 18" from your face like it was an 8x10, it's hard to see anything wrong with it. Granted, you can see a little fringing where the sunset sky meets the mountain outline (sorry, I don't have any way to post the photo yet) and there is some artifacting down in the dark shadow areas, but, bottom line is if you are putting it up on the wall, it's perfect.

Basically, the experiment proves the theory I presented in the opening salvo of this thread, namely that reading distance IS a factor in the equation. Years ago we shot a billboard for Honda on 35mm Kodachrome; art director freaked out, but, by the time the board was hung, it worked perfectly becuase the average viewing distance on the average billboard (by whomever comes up with those stats) is something like 300 feet.

I agree with Daryl that, yeah, if I'm going for a gallery showing, I'm gonna want some more megapixel-power, but NOone I've shown this print to can believe that it came out of a 2.1mp camera until I start to point out some of the little flaws mentioned above. Even then, they're all, like, "Geez, who CARES! It's gorgeous!" I'm even blown away, expectation-wise -- I figured I'd start seeing some pixellation or something, but even under magnification, y'gotta really search to find anything even close to that issue.

So, anyway, if you want a big poster-size print to stick up on your wall and you're not overly critical, it's a good bet that our trusty UZI's will be up to the task. Of course, as the usual disclaimers go, "your results may vary", blah, blah -- start with an EXCELLENT quality image, don't fart around with it too vigorously in post, and give it a try. I think you'll find the results very pleasing.

Yeah, maybe this didn't generate 10,000 responses, but it's sure been fun; and yes, I did mention UZi at least once :-))
'When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.' -- Hunter S. Thompson
 
I think the lens/IS/camera quality is why so many of us UZI/EZI lovers and our viewers like the quality of our 8x10s. I have a house full of 9x7 E100 shots at 150 ppi and most poeple think they are great. naturally, they are my best shots of great scenes.

However, I can see pixelization up close. I want more pixels in my big prints but it does not mean they won't look good as they are.

Try this experiment. Really, its fun and only takes a minute.
  • Find a good pic of a familiar face (kid, spouse etc)
  • crop it tight around the face (face, not the head)
  • resize it to 16x32 pixels (yes, like an icon)
  • resize it again to 320x640
  • display it at 1:1
It will look like an unrecognizable mess of pretty colored blocks.

Now, step back across the room and your familiar face is back! Turn your head, move your eyes you lose the image, look again, its back!

Do this with some unknown object and it won't work.

I think Human perception has so much to do with it.
Technically,
Though the question is not related to any brand or model, the
camera mentioned was a Uzi (2.1).
--
http://www.daryl.com/2002 - photo calendar
http://www.pbase.com/daryl - pbase supporter

Olympus C4040
--
Yote
E100-RS, D7i
http://www.pbase.com/yote
 
Thanks for the interesting topic. Believe it or not, some of us have other cameras and have tried large blow-ups. I had a 12" x 42" panorama printed and had a similar favorable experience. I realize that the 12" dimension is only a little more than 10", but the response to the long pano is always "ooh's and aah's". Fun stuff!

Martin

--
http://www.pbase.com/mrd pbase supporter
C-3020 Tiffen MegaPlus 2X
 
I have found that what matters the most are the "pixels" that are captured.

What I mean is if 40% of the 2.1 million pixels are "noise" then the print might not even look good at 4x6, but it the pixels are what the eyes expects and can use to create a "sharp" appealing image then even less than 2.1 million will work great.

If you search around for comparisons images created by 4x5 digital scanning backs, or Pro-digital SLR the images end up on the screen often at the same resolution and the same number of pixels...but they do look different. I can only conclude that the difference has to do with which pixels end up as a part of the ????x????.

Good work..thanks for the information and the effort you put in this.

--
RichO :)
San Antonio, TX
http://www.pbase.com/richo/
http://www.richo.org/LearningCenter/faq_olympus.htm
'Life is a dance, Love is the music.'
 

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