batteries won't hold charge

This is a strange problem. I have used Maha Powerex 2700 batteries for some time, recharging them with four MahaC204W chargers, generally the day before I shoot a wedding. Recently, my batteries will be almost totally dead just a day after recharging - I get NOTHING out of them. I charge them as I have always done, the chargelight changes from Red to green to indicate charged. Next day, Before I start to shoot, they are practically dead.

I did a shoot three days ago and had planned to use some fill flash - no power whatsoever, and I borrowed four Duracell's that the client just happened to have, which worked fine.

What could cause something like this?

Some of my batteries are less than 6 months old, others a bit older, but I keep them seperated.

???

I've never used the Maha brand but I've used Eneloop...keep its charges..

John.

It's not a problem with the Maha batteries; Ive used that brand a long time and they have been great. I have this same recharge problem with Sanyos and my Maha's. Either the batteries loose their charge very quickly ( overnight ) or my charger is not really charging them. But I have 4 different chargers and the same thing happens with all of them. I try different flashes as well, dead is dead in all of them

Assuming there isn't something wrong with your charger or with the way you store them (such as in a camera that draws excessive current even when turned off), then I's suspect that your batteries have reached the end of their lives. It's not uncommon for a battery to fail after six months or so, though most should last a couple of years. All batteries self-discharge to some degree, though it usally takes at least a month before significant energy has been lost. The Sanyo Eneloop batteries can hold their charge for up to a year and are great for emergency use since you can rely on them. In your case, just about any rechargable battery should work well for you if you charge them just before you use them. I suggest you treat yourself to a brand new set of batteries. You might try a different brand than what you currently use as you can probably get better life out of something else.
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http://www.fantasy-photo.com

you could try reconditioning (completely drain them using a charger if yours has this feature before recharging) them 2-3 times in one sitting to see if they'll hold a charge. I've been doing this to my Duracell 2450mAh batteries with an initial discharge/charge cycle out of the box for the batteries and they've held up fine for me.
http://www.mahaenergy.com/store/nimhfaq.asp

there could be a bad AA cell in your set, check them with a volt meter or battery tester to weed out the bad one(s). Another option is to get a battery charger that charges the batteries individually instead of in pairs, that way each battery will be fully charged instead of having the charging cycle stop when one in a pair gets fully charged

you could also try a warranty exchange
http://www.mahaenergy.com/store/warranty.asp

UncleMikey said:

This is a strange problem. I have used Maha Powerex 2700 batteries
for some time, recharging them with four MahaC204W chargers,
generally the day before I shoot a wedding. Recently, my batteries
will be almost totally dead just a day after recharging - I get
NOTHING out of them. I charge them as I have always done, the
chargelight changes from Red to green to indicate charged. Next day,
Before I start to shoot, they are practically dead.

I did a shoot three days ago and had planned to use some fill flash -
no power whatsoever, and I borrowed four Duracell's that the client
just happened to have, which worked fine.

What could cause something like this?

Some of my batteries are less than 6 months old, others a bit older,
but I keep them seperated.

Click to expand...

--

We have art that we do not die of the truth.
--Friedrich Nietzsche

UncleMikey said:

This is a strange problem. I have used Maha Powerex 2700 batteries
for some time, recharging them with four MahaC204W chargers,
generally the day before I shoot a wedding. Recently, my batteries
will be almost totally dead just a day after recharging - I get
NOTHING out of them. I charge them as I have always done, the
chargelight changes from Red to green to indicate charged. Next day,
Before I start to shoot, they are practically dead.
[snip]
What could cause something like this?

Some of my batteries are less than 6 months old, others a bit older,
but I keep them seperated.

Click to expand...

I don't use that particular brand; but, I've experienced similar problems particularly during the winter months.

What I found was that if the area where I was recharging the batteries was too cold [or if the batteries themselves were too cold when starting the recharging], the batteries would indicate a full charge but would only have enough charge for about 10 flashes on a Nikon or Metz speedlight.

Check the temperature specifications for both the batteries and for the charger; and perhaps move your charging location to a warmer area [70°F-75°F]. That worked for me.
Hope this helps.

Maha has a great charger. It will charge 4 batteries at a time and it charges them independently of the other 3 batteries. You can control the charging current. You can also do a test to determine the actual capacity of the batteries. In addition to this, it has a renew mode where it discharges the batteries and then recharges them again. This takes a day or two to complete. The charger is not inexpensive, but if you have a bunch of batteries this is a good charger that will allow you to weed out the batteries.

About every three months, I check the capacity of my batteries and stick a note on the side of the battery with the capacity. When they get too low I throw them out.

One bad battery in a set of 4 will only be as good as the worst battery.

The charger I have is called MA-C9000 Wizard One Charger-Analyzer. Mine is about 2 years old so they may have a more recent version by now.
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http://www.blackcanyonsystems.com/Models



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Lawrence

Oh, come on. No one should have that much trouble with batteries.

Make sure you check the obvious things. For example, some chargers have a switch for selecting the type of battery that is to be charged. If the switch is in the wrong position the charger will stop charging a too low of a voltage and the battery won't be charged hardly at all. Also, make sure you leave the battery in long enough. Some charge in a couple of hours and some require up to 18 hours. Read the instructions that came with the charger. Make sure you are using the charger that was intended for the type of batteries you are trying to charge. Some chargers require that you put a pair of batteries in the proper slots in the charger (only some slots work with a battery pair) while you don't have to worry about that when charging 4 batteries. I think there's something wrong with the charging method you are using or you wouldn't have this much trouble. You might buy a new set of batteries, a new charger to go with them, read the instructions, and then charge the batteries for the time specified and in the proper manner.

UncleMikey said:

It's not a problem with the Maha batteries; Ive used that brand a
long time and they have been great. I have this same recharge
problem with Sanyos and my Maha's. Either the batteries loose their
charge very quickly ( overnight ) or my charger is not really
charging them. But I have 4 different chargers and the same thing
happens with all of them. I try different flashes as well, dead is
dead in all of them

Click to expand...

--
http://www.fantasy-photo.com

One bad battery can make the entire set look like they went bad. I suggest you buy a cheap voltmeter so that you can check the batteries a few hours (or maybe a day) after they've been charged but before you actually use them. The voltage should be pretty close to the same for all of the batteries. If one is significantly lower than the others, then it has a high self-discharge rate and should be thrown away. The rest can still be used.

Lawrence Keeney said:

One bad battery in a set of 4 will only be as good as the worst battery.

--
Lawrence

Click to expand...

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http://www.fantasy-photo.com

A couple of good ideas here - it could be that I have some batteries in poor condition mixed with the rest. They are all the same age, but maybe a few bad ones in the mix are causing the problem. I'll try the tester and see if I can spot bad ones. That sounds like the most likely problem.

I typed the model number incorrectly. It should be MH-C9000
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http://www.blackcanyonsystems.com/Models



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Lawrence

I've been using the Maha MH-C9000 WizardOne charger with batteries of various manufacturers, including Powerex 2700mAh AA.

The owner of the store where I purchased these products provided some great advice on knowing what to do with batteries that don't seem to hold their charge.

The MH-C9000 has a refresh/analyze cycle that charges/discharges/charges the batteries. After the second charge in the cycle, the battery's capacity is indicated (in mAh). The indicated capacity tells you for how long the battery will perform relative to when it was brand new.

The charger also has this break-in cycle that takes the refresh/analyze idea to another level. If after running a break-in cycle the battery's capacity is still low, the battery will pretty much always be a poor performer. Either chuck it out or have lots of spares on-hand!

in order to get 2700mA capacity, the batteries are manufactured in such a way as to be fragile/sensitive to charge/discharge rates and other environmental factors.

We have used them in the past (high quality Sanyo cells) in our remote controlled helicopters and transmitters. You can easily kill a 2700 by charging it too fast or demanding too much from it too fast. Even w/ babying and a really good charger and never charging it at more than 1.1A rate, the batteries dumped on me and caused a helicopter crash. We do not use 2700's anymore; only up to 2000 and now the Eneloops

prices of AAs are low enough that i haven't used rechargeable in quite a while and therefor haven't kept on the latest tech. so the following info/opinion may well be wrong/outdated.

-i was always under the impression that recharge-ables required a bit of charge/energy to actually re-charge. so, when the low battery warning comes on i do not take those last few shots.

i believe a charger with a 're-fresh/recondition utlility' works on this principal. it 'drains' the battery at a safe pace to a safe voltage then re-charges it. i also wonder why 'refresh' capable chargers are needed as most modern rechargeable battery manufacturer's claim their batteries are not susceptible to memory issues.

'quick' chargers are(were) not necessarily ideal things either. they cook the batteries and stop charging at a certain deemed 'safe' level so as not to entirely over cook them, sometimes as low as 60-70% capacity. not sure if this has been improved by today's standards. so, you will not have a fully charged battery when using a quick charger.

a battery must be under a load(current flow through it) to properly test it. a nearly useless battery can and often does show an optimal 'operating' voltage reading when simply testing with a voltage meter. how well the voltage level is maintained while the current is flowing determines how good the battery is.

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Thanks,
Paul

Some of the tips below have already been mentioned but they might help you get more life from your batteries. Also, as other have mentioned, it only takes one bad apple to upset the fruit basket, so monitor each separately.

1) Get a good charger. A bad one will ruin your batteries. Check out http://thomasdistributing.com/ for great deals on both chargers and batteries (and expert information).

2) When purchasing batteries, write a date on them for their first charge. This will help you identify them easily by age. All rechargeables have a limited life cycle. Make sure you know your brand's.

3) Unless in a pinch, always use slow charge methods. A good charger will still slow charge a 2700 or 2900 battery very efficiently.

Member said:

i also wonder why 'refresh' capable chargers are needed as most modern rechargeable battery manufacturer's claim their batteries are not susceptible to memory issues.

Click to expand...

ALL nickel-based chemistries have memory issues, although Ni-Hm have much less than Ni-Cad.

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RDKirk
'TANSTAAFL: The only unbreakable rule in photography.'