Battery performance...

Hi Folks,

I'm in the market once again for a second battery for my V530.

I'm thinking of going with a Kodak battery this time and have a few basic questions.

For the past couple of years I've been alternating with my original Kodak KLIC 7002 battery and a couple of clone, supposedly high capacity batteries.

The clone batteries sold two for $10 and the Kodak KLIC sells for $30 now.

The clone batteries work, but despite their high capacity rating, they last for about half the time that my original battery lasts, before requiring a re-charge.

What I'd like to know is if there is any difference on a battery's life span if you choose between the following two options:
1. You leave your main battery for months, and just charge it up to make sure
it works OK, and then leave it again.

2. You alternate between two good batteries, spreading the usage evenly between the two.

In other words, does a battery have a lifespan in terms if months/years, whether it is used or not, or is its lifespan dependent on how much it is used (hours)?

Thanks!

NoiseFree said:

In other words, does a battery have a lifespan in terms if
months/years, whether it is used or not, or is its lifespan dependent
on how much it is used (hours)?

Click to expand...

These are LiOn batteries? You can google for info on their performance.

The primary determinant to battery lifetime is charge / discharge cycles. They are rated in how many times they are charged, generally.

LiOn don't mind and prefer to be charged when they are not empty. I think they should not be left empty if you can.

In contrast, NiCd on the other hand, have a memory effect and you are advised in that chemistry to fully discharge before you recharge. NiMh originally had a self discharge - after some time a fully charged battery will lose all it's charge. The new Eneloop class have a shallower self discharge curve.

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Ananda
http://anandasim.blogspot.com/

AnandaSim said:

NoiseFree said:

In other words, does a battery have a lifespan in terms if
months/years, whether it is used or not, or is its lifespan dependent
on how much it is used (hours)?

Click to expand...

These are LiOn batteries? You can google for info on their performance.

The primary determinant to battery lifetime is charge / discharge
cycles. They are rated in how many times they are charged, generally.

LiOn don't mind and prefer to be charged when they are not empty. I
think they should not be left empty if you can.

Click to expand...

Thanks. Yes these are LiOn batteries.

I'd still like to know if a LiOn battery's lifespan can be spread out over many years, by using it just a few times each year. Or whether it will deteriorate, on its own, over time.

So does it have a shelf-life, in addition to its limited number of re-charge cycles?

In other words, after sitting un-used for a couple of years, can the battery be charged the full number of cycles as marked on the package?

And if not, does charging it a few times a year, make up for not using it at all?

Yes, Li-ion batteries have a shelf life and will deteriorate over time whether you use it or not, similar to notebook batteries. Do not buy batteries and expect them to have full performance after 4-5 years.

I had a V530. My $6 Li-ion rechargeable battery worked the same as my original battery. Each battery was good for around 75-100 shoots (combo of day night). One time, I shoot day time photos all day long and got around 115 on a single charge. The V530 battery was just too small. Since the camera did not have any optical view finder (like the V550), you had to use the power draining LCD panel.

NoiseFree said:

AnandaSim said:

NoiseFree said:

In other words, does a battery have a lifespan in terms if
months/years, whether it is used or not, or is its lifespan dependent
on how much it is used (hours)?

Click to expand...

These are LiOn batteries? You can google for info on their performance.

The primary determinant to battery lifetime is charge / discharge
cycles. They are rated in how many times they are charged, generally.

LiOn don't mind and prefer to be charged when they are not empty. I
think they should not be left empty if you can.

Click to expand...

Thanks. Yes these are LiOn batteries.
I'd still like to know if a LiOn battery's lifespan can be spread out
over many years, by using it just a few times each year. Or whether
it will deteriorate, on its own, over time.

So does it have a shelf-life, in addition to its limited number of
re-charge cycles?
In other words, after sitting un-used for a couple of years, can the
battery be charged the full number of cycles as marked on the package?
And if not, does charging it a few times a year, make up for not
using it at all?

Click to expand...

As I said, google it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery

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Shelf life

A unique drawback of the Li-ion battery is that its service life is dependent upon aging (shelf life). From time of manufacturing, regardless of whether it was charged or the number of charge/discharge cycles, the battery will decline slowly and predictably in "capacity". This means an older battery will not last as long as a new battery due solely to its age, unlike other batteries. This is due to an increase in internal resistance, which affects its ability to deliver current, thus the problem is more pronounced in high-current applications than low. This drawback is not widely published.[19] However, as this capacity decreases over time, the time required to charge it also decreases proportionally. Also, high charge levels and elevated temperatures hasten permanent capacity loss for Lithium ion batteries.[20] This heat is caused by the traditional carbon anode, which has been replaced with good results by Lithium titanate. Lithium titanate has been experimentally shown to drastically reduce the degenerative effects associated with charging including expansion and other factors.[21] See "Improvements of lithium Ion technology" below.

At a 100% charge level, a typical Li-ion laptop battery that is full most of the time at 25 °C or 77 °F will irreversibly lose approximately 20% capacity per year. However, a battery in a poorly ventilated laptop may be subject to a prolonged exposure to much higher temperatures, which will significantly shorten its life. Different storage temperatures produce different loss results: 6% loss at 0 °C (32 °F), 20% at 25 °C (77 °F), and 35% at 40 °C (104 °F). When stored at 40%–60% charge level, the capacity loss is reduced to 2%, 4%, 15% at 0, 25 and 40 degrees Celsius respectively.
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Ananda
http://anandasim.blogspot.com/

Thanks George.

I guess I bought a bad replacement brand. Probably $5 batteries were too good to be true. Right from the start they were only 75% as efficient as my original (and that was my aged original too). Later on they became just 50% efficient compared to the original.

The difference between my usage and yours with the V530 is that I use it mostly for short videos (around 1 minute or so). It seems that drains the battery much quicker than single photo shots.

I wanted to buy the V550 because of the optical finder but the store didn't have any.

Overall I am really very happy with my V530 though.

There's one other thing though that I don't like about the camera.

If you want to shoot a bunch of pics on the self-timer, you must walk up to the camera each time and fiddle with menus to change the setting.

The stupid camera can't be set to self-timer mode and stay like that for more than one pic at a time!!!

GeorgeH said:

Yes, Li-ion batteries have a shelf life and will deteriorate over
time whether you use it or not, similar to notebook batteries. Do
not buy batteries and expect them to have full performance after 4-5
years.

I had a V530. My $6 Li-ion rechargeable battery worked the same as
my original battery. Each battery was good for around 75-100 shoots
(combo of day night). One time, I shoot day time photos all day
long and got around 115 on a single charge. The V530 battery was
just too small. Since the camera did not have any optical view
finder (like the V550), you had to use the power draining LCD panel.

Click to expand...

Thanks Ananda for this.

AnandaSim said:

As I said, google it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery

---
Shelf life
A unique drawback of the Li-ion battery is that its service life is
dependent upon aging (shelf life). From time of manufacturing,
regardless of whether it was charged or the number of
charge/discharge cycles, the battery will decline slowly and

Click to expand...

Hey Ananda you would make a good tech writer like those guys who write manuals for electronic stuff that you always have to read at Christmas time so that little Billy can run his fast MAC and take over the world someday!!
--
R of Fowl Owl cuisine!

Hey No-noise!, my wifes' V550 is just an awesome little camera so sharp and stylish!. She wanted a viewfinder and it works well enuf, although it has a somewhat weak battery even tho it is Li-Ion.

You have to use the flash alot indoors as the noise gets ugly with Higher ISO but it only has 5 meg on a 1/1/2.5" sensor which is Perfect for the size.

There are so many good Cameras that Kodak has put out but nobody knows and assume: what you pay is what you get!

So the assumption that cheap = lousy prevails cause Kodak marketing Sucks and they sell to low a price to afford advertising!.

Come on Kodak! ... the corporate debt is paid off so get done suing everyone for invention Patents and lets put Kodak on top of the heap of imatators!!
--
Robert

Hey Robert,

I agree with you. Overall I am very pleased with my Kodak V530. It's small, takes really decent pics (I never fiddle with any manual settings either) and is very reliable.
A great value for the price.
It seems like these Kodak cams are a well-kept secret!

TheGoldenOwl said:

Hey No-noise!, my wifes' V550 is just an awesome little camera so
sharp and stylish!. She wanted a viewfinder and it works well enuf,
..... Come on Kodak! ... the corporate debt is paid off so get done suing
everyone for invention Patents and lets put Kodak on top of the heap
of imatators!!
--
Robert

Click to expand...